Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

@ All
I decided today that a hot plate setup outside my house-- in the open air-- is a better way to cook these cells than in the house. I will get one tommorrow. Today I was burning a sheet of copper on my gas stove top and made a terrible long lasting and nose irratating smell. The copper sheet was a laminate and the plastic middle layer caught on fire. It was probably very toxic. Luckily my wife wasn't home or there would have been a some VERY harsh words fired in my direction. It is time to move outside before real trouble happens.

I didn't do anymore work with the Penny oscillators today.

We worked with carbon and graphite allot a ways back in this project before the attention turned to the crystal cells. I was even using pieces of carbon fiber arrow shafts wrapped with magnesium for awhile. Those big carbon rods that Lasersaber used were way too expensive for me so I used the activated charcoal water filter elements.

I did make a neat little cell today. I grew my own Rochelle salt crystals awhile ago and mixed some of those with epsom salt and water to grow a combined crystal. It took weeks for the crystals to finally form but they are nice ones. Today I melted some into a paste (on the kitchen stove ) and stuck a piece of copper and a Mg in it. When it hardened up it made a nice little white rock cell. What is different about this method is that the Rochelle salt and Epsom salt were grown into a single crystal first. I don't know if that makes any difference. We will see how long it lasts.

Lidmotor

Making the two crystals into one makes all the difference. One good experiment to try when the cell is fully dried is to take two different electrodes like copper and aluminum(or magnesium) and connect them to your volt meter. Start to poke the cell with the electrodes and see if you get a good voltage. You want to see if the skin of the cell is conductive.

Mixing two crystals into one crystals is how my stove top cell and glue cell works. The stove top cell heats up the borax and alum to where they release water and all three crystals form into one. The glue cell uses the water from the glue to mix the Epsom salt and Salt substitute into one crystal. I find that using water to mix many crystals into one key to a good cell. But make sure you fully dry out you cell so you can eliminate the galvanic reaction, its the water that does the corroding.

[seth]

@ All
Today I was burning a sheet of copper on my gas stove top and made a terrible long lasting and nose irratating smell. The copper sheet was a laminate and the plastic middle layer caught on fire. It was probably very toxic. Luckily my wife wasn't home or there would have been a some VERY harsh words fired in my direction. It is time to move outside before real trouble happens.


Lidmotor

All my magnesium (even the ribbon) is now in a red plastic container in the garage outside, on top of the fridge - i watched a few vids on youtube just to remind myself how flamable the stuff is and it scares me. Lets all play safe!

Some second-hand Barium titanate has finally arrived....ill try the stuff as it almost has an aura of mystery around it, what with lifters, TT Brown, the Naudin motor and lots of other strange claims about it. I'll try filing in the ceramic as a powder and add it to the rochelle/epsom mix. Its silver plated, so some silver will have to go in as doping.

@ freezer - well done!! Looks like you got something there, even if it is small. Keep us posted on its progress

[Slider2732]

A few updates all in one short video from me.
Interesting talk there about the skin of crystals, In the vid is the single electrode cell I spoke of, it's structure is quite crytalline now (epsom/alum/rochelle/mortar from some while ago) and glints in the light at different places. Well, that cell seems to conduct differently at different places, ranging from 0.1V to 0.6V with the purer white areas conducting best.
Also shows 2 'Penny' type oscillators talking, a wireless field from one oscillator and a tanning cream based ZnO cell.
At the end, something that sorted a few wonderings out for me. The Ha'Penny oscillator had been running for 5 days straight, from a 1F supercap that was sitting at 0.939V when the run started. Over the last day, the voltage went from a mere 0.412V to 0.406V and would rise a little, dip a little all day. The oscillator flash rate got slower over the 24hrs, the voltage was there, the current wasn't, SAME as these crystal cells behave. The oscillator has now stopped and the supercap still reads 0.408V

ZnO + 2 ladies talking wirelessly - YouTube

[Lidmotor]

Single crystal point contact cell

Making the two crystals into one makes all the difference. One good experiment to try when the cell is fully dried is to take two different electrodes like copper and aluminum(or magnesium) and connect them to your volt meter. Start to poke the cell with the electrodes and see if you get a good voltage. You want to see if the skin of the cell is conductive.

Mixing two crystals into one crystals is how my stove top cell and glue cell works. The stove top cell heats up the borax and alum to where they release water and all three crystals form into one. The glue cell uses the water from the glue to mix the Epsom salt and Salt substitute into one crystal. I find that using water to mix many crystals into one key to a good cell. But make sure you fully dry out you cell so you can eliminate the galvanic reaction, its the water that does the corroding.

Here is a video of Penny No. 2 running off a single crystal cell that was made by combining Rochelle and Epsom salt into a single "grown" crystal. It took weeks for the crystals to form and I don't know why. I used copper and magnesium electrodes with point contact on the crystal. I do not know what the dynamic is of the cell. It may be that the action is taking place on the surface of the crystal or maybe internally. I don't speak "Penny oscillator" or she would probably tell me what is going on.

Single crystal point contact cell---Rochelle and Epsom crystal.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor

[ibpointless2]

@all
I've made a video showing what I'm talking about when i say the electrons flow on the skin of the crystal and not through the crystal. What this means is that the electrodes never touch the water that's trapped in the crystal. This like how electrons flow on the skin of copper wire and not through the copper, traveling on the skin of things must be how electrons like to flow.

Electrons flow on the skin of the crystal - YouTube




@lidmotor
You state in your latest video that you think that the crystal has a water layer of skin and that is why the cell works. This seems impossible to me, if any water touches that crystal it will start to dissolve and break down. Besides the sweat on your fingers I don't see any water being on that crystal's skin. You must think of the crystal as being metal and that's why its conductive. Unless the crystal feels wet there is no water on the skin of it. The main reason why the crystal grows is due to the absence of water, the water evaporates from the container which leaves a higher concentration of salts and thus these crystals form. I just can't wrap my head around a solid crystal having a water like layer for skin, this seem impossible due to the fact that the crystal will dissolve in the presence of water.

But i think you have something more than just a galvanic battery, the point contact crystal cell is really amazing cell. I wouldn't shoot your self short with the impossible claims of the skin being a layer of water.

[Lidmotor]

sticky sweaty crystal

@all
I've made a video showing what I'm talking about when i say the electrons flow on the skin of the crystal and not through the crystal. What this means is that the electrodes never touch the water that's trapped in the crystal. This like how electrons flow on the skin of copper wire and not through the copper, traveling on the skin of things must be how electrons like to flow.

Electrons flow on the skin of the crystal - YouTube




@lidmotor
You state in your latest video that you think that the crystal has a water layer of skin and that is why the cell works. This seems impossible to me, if any water touches that crystal it will start to dissolve and break down. Besides the sweat on your fingers I don't see any water being on that crystal's skin. You must think of the crystal as being metal and that's why its conductive. Unless the crystal feels wet there is no water on the skin of it. The main reason why the crystal grows is due to the absence of water, the water evaporates from the container which leaves a higher concentration of salts and thus these crystals form. I just can't wrap my head around a solid crystal having a water like layer for skin, this seem impossible due to the fact that the crystal will dissolve in the presence of water.

But i think you have something more than just a galvanic battery, the point contact crystal cell is really amazing cell. I wouldn't shoot your self short with the impossible claims of the skin being a layer of water.

Steve this "combo" crystal that I showed has a moist sticky coating and seems to sweat. Even after I rinse it off and quickly and carefully dry it. I don't think that this is the right crystal for what we are doing. After I made the video the electrodes melted down through the crystal almost like it was an icecube. Very strange. Disappointing but interesting.

Lidmotor

[radiant1]

lid motor, consider camp stove

Lid Motor; I reduced 4 pounds of epsom salt on a propane burner outside. i did 1/5 of the 4 pound bag at a time. I never timed it but seamed to have taken 2 to 3 hours each time on low heat until there was no crackling sound. I turned off the heaat and let it cool on its own. To reduce the 4 pounds took one of the small camp cylinders of propane. An electric hot plate might cost more in power. Alan

[jehdds]

Guys,
As an aside,
Look
At this. Imagine using the ZnO Epsom cell mix in addition to this!
The electrolyte is VERY sensitive to breathing levels
moisture.....
New device to generate electricity from human breathing

Very Best Regards,
Jim

[Lidmotor]

Coleman one burner camp stove

Lid Motor; I reduced 4 pounds of epsom salt on a propane burner outside. i did 1/5 of the 4 pound bag at a time. I never timed it but seamed to have taken 2 to 3 hours each time on low heat until there was no crackling sound. I turned off the heaat and let it cool on its own. To reduce the 4 pounds took one of the small camp cylinders of propane. An electric hot plate might cost more in power. Alan

Alan that was an excellent idea. Here is a simple one burner camp stove by Coleman that I think that I will get. We use the small propane cylinders on the boat for the BBQ so I always have a bunch around. This little stove will also make an excellent backup cooking device for when we have the BIG ONE earthquake here in California.

Walmart.com: Coleman 1 Burner Propane Stove: Camping

Thanks for the idea. I may get a hot plate also. Sometimes I find one at the local thrift store and next time I'll buy it.

Lidmotor

[plengo]

Just sharing something interesting. I have many cells built and some as old as beginning of September. They all come down in voltage and brightness. None are using oscillators, they all feed an LED directly.

I took a few of those cells and added a drop of water and voila, as expected, they sprung to life again. What is interesting is they sprung to life but stronger.

I don't know if its just galvanic, although mostly probably is, but that would not explain why they would come back stronger. This effect is repeatable. All one has to do is have a cell go really dry and latter add very little water and it should be stronger.

I think as the water dries the crystal lattice is formed and when new water is added that new water allows even more power to be extracted from the formed crystal lattice.

Just my 1 cent.

Fausto.

[NickZ]

Plengo:
I do the same with my cement cells which are months old, and other cells as well. As it rains here quite a bit, I set the lot of them in a case, and out in the rain, to soak all night long. The cells are always ready to go in the morning. Problem is that they do loses power once dry again, but still output at least 1/2 the voltage even dry. They can work dry also, just not as well.
My big capacitor cement cell still has 1.2 volt and 30 mA. after 8 months or use. It does like a soaking in the rain, I see no oxidation at all on it, yet.
BTW that is a glue cell connected to the capacitor cell, which is about three months old, and still outputting (just white glue and table salt). Hail galvanics... as it's all I've ever made.

[radiant1]

magnesium sheet scource

I just contacted GaliumSource.com for getting .03 magnesium sheet stock. He is going to try to find it. If more people ask for it the deal can be better.
Alan

[ibpointless2]

Lidmotor has gotten me a little concern with galvanic with his latest video. So I took a step back to fully understand some of my cells. I've taken a deep hard look into the my Crystal Glue Cell (Elmer's glue, Salt substitute, and Epsom salt ).

Its no lie that this cell ingredients such as the glue and Epsom salt contain water. So if any part of your ingredients contain water it raises the potability that your cell could be galvanic. So I wanted to get to the bottom of this and find out if the Glue cell is galvanic or not.

So I come to find out that the potassium chloride in salt substitute contain no water and only the Glue and Epsom salt contained all the water. So if my cell was galvanic and relied on water to work I could eliminate the salt substitute and just have glue and Epsom salt. Just having glue and Epsom salt only cell should give me a good cell once dry right? Nope. Even though the glue and Epsom salt contain water the Glue and Epsom salt only cell produces little to no voltage (~20mV). That simple cell proves to me that we have something more than just galvanic's working here. And anyone can make this cell, just mix Elmer's glue and Epsom salt and stick your electrodes in it and let it fully dry and you'll see you get little to no voltage. For things that are mostly water they sure do make a horrible battery.

So this just goes to show that even though water is their its not being used so thus no galvanic reaction.

But now if you take Elmer's glue, Salt substitute and Epsom salt and mix them and stick your electrodes in that and let it dry you get a very nice cell that gives power even when shorted out for months. The truth is that water is needed to combine the Salt substitute and Epsom salt into one crystal, and the glue proves the water to make that happen. The water from the glue starts to evaporate and this cause crystal grow and a protective layer to form over the electrodes to keep oxygen out. This new crystal that is formed is conductive on the skin and this allows the electrons to flow. Since no water is needed for the cell to work after its formed and dried out the cell should last for a long time and should not corrode. So I can simply say the Glue Crystal cell is not galvanic by our understanding.

any input is welcomed.

[NickZ]

Ib:
If the glue, epsom, and salt substitute mix was like the white part of the Oreo cookie, and the top and bottom of the cookie was carbon and magnesium. The cells could be further oven dried, until heated until bone dry, then several cells could all be piled and pressed together, and sealed again on the outside, air tight.
If the water in the salts-glue mix is trapped inside of the twin salt crystal matrix, then once it is as all as dry as its going to get, there may not be any oxidation of the cathode metals.

[NextGen1967]

Lidmotor has gotten me a little concern with galvanic with his latest video. So I took a step back to fully understand some of my cells. I've taken a deep hard look into the my Crystal Glue Cell (Elmer's glue, Salt substitute, and Epsom salt ).

Its no lie that this cell ingredients such as the glue and Epsom salt contain water. So if any part of your ingredients contain water it raises the potability that your cell could be galvanic. So I wanted to get to the bottom of this and find out if the Glue cell is galvanic or not.

So I come to find out that the potassium chloride in salt substitute contain no water and only the Glue and Epsom salt contained all the water. So if my cell was galvanic and relied on water to work I could eliminate the salt substitute and just have glue and Epsom salt. Just having glue and Epsom salt only cell should give me a good cell once dry right? Nope. Even though the glue and Epsom salt contain water the Glue and Epsom salt only cell produces little to no voltage (~20mV). That simple cell proves to me that we have something more than just galvanic's working here. And anyone can make this cell, just mix Elmer's glue and Epsom salt and stick your electrodes in it and let it fully dry and you'll see you get little to no voltage. For things that are mostly water they sure do make a horrible battery.

So this just goes to show that even though water is their its not being used so thus no galvanic reaction.

But now if you take Elmer's glue, Salt substitute and Epsom salt and mix them and stick your electrodes in that and let it dry you get a very nice cell that gives power even when shorted out for months. The truth is that water is needed to combine the Salt substitute and Epsom salt into one crystal, and the glue proves the water to make that happen. The water from the glue starts to evaporate and this cause crystal grow and a protective layer to form over the electrodes to keep oxygen out. This new crystal that is formed is conductive on the skin and this allows the electrons to flow. Since no water is needed for the cell to work after its formed and dried out the cell should last for a long time and should not corrode. So I can simply say the Glue Crystal cell is not galvanic by our understanding.

any input is welcomed.

@IB

That is a very nice analysis you made there :-)

Let's see if I understand... Please comment your point of view on it....

As per your above, the epsom salt as material is USED to form an crystal, but does not really add to electricity production. However, during the formation of this crystal(lic structure) the salt substitute becomes one with the crystal formation, and in such makes the difference between no voltage (<20mV) and voltage with the in this way formed crystal.

The water from the glue starts to evaporate and this cause crystal grow and a protective layer to form over the electrodes to keep oxygen out

I don't understand this part fully.... The protective layer over the electrodes is formed by the glue, or by a decomposition of (part of the) crystal material? In any case, this protective layer, have you been able to test this for conductivity? (E,G have you been able to measure it's resistance?)

This new crystal that is formed is conductive on the skin and this allows the electrons to flow.

When you say conductive over the skin, it would mean that if you measure the surface resistance of the crystal (with each probe having the same metal), you would get a low Ohmic reading on your DMM - correct? I myself feel not so comfortable with your above sentence, but could it be that instead of allowing electrons to flow, that IONS flow of the surface over the skin, and in such case, it would be very possible that they also flow through the crystal(lic structure).

Your view ?

--
Ron.