Bedini Earth Light

[b_rads]

@IB

That is a very nice analysis you made there :-)

(removed content)

Ron.

@Steve and Ron and all

I found this very interesting on electrical resistance and throw it out for this discussion. Apoligies for the cut and paste:

From How do you explain electrical...

How do you explain electrical resistance?
I'm assuming you are asking for advice on "how to" explain resistance - perhaps to a school class. At any rate, here's a reasonably non-technical description you can consider.
In a metal, the atoms are arranged in a crystal-like configuration. The type of metal will determine how the bonds are arranged, and how closely the atoms are grouped. Electrons can inhabit energy levels. Generally, only the "outer" electrons in an atom interact to form the bonds with other atoms. These outer electrons are held to the atom with a relatively small amount of energy. Normally, they inhabit an energy level we call the valence band. This is their "ground" state. The addition of energy can raise these electrons out of the valence band and into the "conduction" band. In the conduction band they are free to move about within the crystal structure. The application of an electric potential will influence them to move in a particular direction.
Now, in a metal, the valence band is relatively close to the conduction band - that is, very little energy is necessary to cause electrons to jump from their valence state into the conduction band. In fact, we think of metals as having a large population of free electrons in the conduction band all the time. So the application of electric potential will cause them to move - a current flow. So, metals generally have a relatively low (though not zero) resistance. In a material such as glass, there is a large energy gap between the valence and conduction band. This means there are very few free electrons available for current flow, and it takes a large input of energy to raise any electrons into the conduction band.
Within a metal conductor, even though there are free electrons, there is still resistance to current flow. This can be described by simple models, but apparently only quantum electron theories accurately deal with the behavior of metals under extreme conditions such as very low temperatures. Replacing the idea of electrons as particles with electrons as waves solves the problems of the simpler models. You can picture these electron waves oscillating through the metal lattice (which can also be pictured as a wave-like structure) - the interference of the lattice structure with the electrons causes resistance. This resistance is caused mainly by two things. One is impurities in the metal, which cause irregularities in the periodicity of the lattice. The other is the disturbance or "vibration" of the lattice caused by heat. Since some heat is always present (except at absolute zero) there is always some resistance from this source which prevents the electrons from sailing through.

Brad S

[Slider2732]

So, a couple of things spring to mind:

Electron bondings cause crystal cells to produce energy that is out of valence
and
Resistance is useless

[ibpointless2]

@NextGen1967

How the glue cell works...

You have two main crystals, Epsom salt and Salt substitute. The glue contains nothing important except the water that's in it. You can make a cell without using the glue, the glue is only used due to it having water in it ( I'll describe why water at first is important) and the glue makes a nice protective layer to keep out oxygen and water once the glue has dried.

Why is water based glue important?
Like I said earlier the glue is not important, but its the water that is important. This cell does not need water to run but needs water to make the two crystals (Epsom salt and Salt substitute) into one crystal. The water allows the two crystals to break down and fuse into one crystal, this crystal is where all the magic happens. Combining Epsom Salt and Salt substitute into one crystal is the secret. To do this water is needed to make them one, but after that water is never needed again. This cell does not need water to allow electron flow, the new fused crystal replaces the water.

I did say glue is not important so you don't need water based glue, you can use just plain water to combine the crystals but the glue works the best because once dry the glue protects the cells electrodes.

Now for the reason why the skin is conductive is simple, its the combine crystal or "new" fused crystal that makes it conductive. here's a video of my discrbing what i mean by the "skin effect". Electrons flow on the skin of the crystal - YouTube

So the key to a good cell is to take Epsom salt and salt substitute and combine them into one crystal by use of water. I do this by using water based glue because once the glue is dry it helps to protect the electrodes from oxygen and moisture. And even though water is needed to combine the crystals and one crystal contains water molecules in its lattice the Crystal Glue cell does not run on water so its not galvanic.

[mikrovolt]

@ b rads, excellant !

@ armagedon, thankyou for bringing up the effect of pressure on a crystal
another example is non-metallic crystal mica. (such as a mica compression capacitor). the capacitance varies with the pressure. The distance between the plates reduced while the dielectric properties change.

This is a basic review of how a capacitor works.
How a capacitor works - YouTube

bonds allow moving holes while perceived as rigidly solid.
P-N junction of a semiconductor diode - YouTube

[NextGen1967]

@NextGen1967

How the glue cell works...

You have two main crystals, Epsom salt and Salt substitute. The glue contains nothing important except the water that's in it. You can make a cell without using the glue, the glue is only used due to it having water in it ( I'll describe why water at first is important) and the glue makes a nice protective layer to keep out oxygen and water once the glue has dried.

Why is water based glue important?
Like I said earlier the glue is not important, but its the water that is important. This cell does not need water to run but needs water to make the two crystals (Epsom salt and Salt substitute) into one crystal. The water allows the two crystals to break down and fuse into one crystal, this crystal is where all the magic happens. Combining Epsom Salt and Salt substitute into one crystal is the secret. To do this water is needed to make them one, but after that water is never needed again. This cell does not need water to allow electron flow, the new fused crystal replaces the water.

I did say glue is not important so you don't need water based glue, you can use just plain water to combine the crystals but the glue works the best because once dry the glue protects the cells electrodes.

Now for the reason why the skin is conductive is simple, its the combine crystal or "new" fused crystal that makes it conductive. here's a video of my discrbing what i mean by the "skin effect". Electrons flow on the skin of the crystal - YouTube

So the key to a good cell is to take Epsom salt and salt substitute and combine them into one crystal by use of water. I do this by using water based glue because once the glue is dry it helps to protect the electrodes from oxygen and moisture. And even though water is needed to combine the crystals and one crystal contains water molecules in its lattice the Crystal Glue cell does not run on water so its not galvanic.

@IB

Thanks, I appreciate the reply. However, I did not get an clear answer for two things....

1) The skin resistance... Your video that is mentioned above.. Could you do the same again, but now instead set the DMM on the Ohm reading scale and poke the cell? You could also measure the resistance over the leads, but then you would have to momentarily remove the short. (It would make a nice video again)

2) The protective layer of the electrodes you mention, is more like an glue encapsulation? So there is NOT a thin layer -non glue material formed- over the electrodes that distinct them from the same bare electrodes?

PS. I do not have elmers glue, but can get a local 'school glue' having the same kind of white looking glue. No salt substitute here also, but I could order some Potassium Chloride from E-Bay. (yeah, I live in a rather rural place).

--
Ron.

[ibpointless2]

@IB

Thanks, I appreciate the reply. However, I did not get an clear answer for two things....

1) The skin resistance... Your video that is mentioned above.. Could you do the same again, but now instead set the DMM on the Ohm reading scale and poke the cell? You could also measure the resistance over the leads, but then you would have to momentarily remove the short. (It would make a nice video again)

2) The protective layer of the electrodes you mention, is more like an glue encapsulation? So there is NOT a thin layer -non glue material formed- over the electrodes that distinct them from the same bare electrodes?

PS. I do not have elmers glue, but can get a local 'school glue' having the same kind of white looking glue. No salt substitute here also, but I could order some Potassium Chloride from E-Bay. (yeah, I live in a rather rural place).

--
Ron.

I will upload a video but I would like to know why you have interest in the resistance on the skin of the cell?

The glue and salts mix to make this glue crystal skin. The glue crystal skin is the protective layer. When the glue dries it all becomes one hard crystal like surface that helps to keep oxygen.

I strongly recommend using Elmer's Glue-all and salt substitute in-order to get the same results as me. From their you can explore using other things. I think you get both from amazon.com. How remote away are you, I know Walmart carries this stuff.

[Lidmotor]

I just don't know

@Steve and All

What is going on in these cells is complicated. I really cannot get a good grasp on exactly what is happening. The more I research the more confusing it gets.

I stopped today and made a little auto On & Off Led light using my sealed stainless steel and magnesium crystal cell. It took my mind off the whole situation and was just fun.

Stainlees steel crystal cell with auto On -Off LED light.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor

[ibpointless2]

here's a video of the resistance of the skin of the crystal glue cell.

Resistance of the Crystal Glue Cell's skin - YouTube

[NextGen1967]

I will upload a video but I would like to know why you have interest in the resistance on the skin of the cell?

The glue and salts mix to make this glue crystal skin. The glue crystal skin is the protective layer. When the glue dries it all becomes one hard crystal like surface that helps to keep oxygen.

I strongly recommend using Elmer's Glue-all and salt substitute in-order to get the same results as me. From their you can explore using other things. I think you get both from amazon.com. How remote away are you, I know Walmart carries this stuff.

@IB

Thanks,

Well,it will be good knowing the properties of different kind of cells.. With enough different cells made, one could maybe find properties that are similar, or have a positive or negative effect.

You have an oscilloscope ?

Send you an PM.

--
Ron.

[NickZ]

John B and All:
Lidmotor- Just watched your video, looks like a good way to go with the cells with the oscillator turning off on its own. It gives the cells a break, which may help them to stay running strong.

My head is still spinning... don't know which way to go on these cells.

The way I see it, the two different metals are the true source of the voltage, not the salt electrolyte that everyone is talking about. Although salt solutions can evaporate and crystalize, they are not true solid crystals, like quartz. Which unlike salts, when tossed in water or left in the open air, don't dissolve. So, what we are dealing with is a cell that runs on two different metals, using salt as the electrolyte. Once the salts are molten and cool they reform to become a rock, and not a crystal.
The semiconductor crystal cell like the MR cell, using no liquids, does not put out much, if only 2 mA is all that can be expected, even if it last forever. But, is that really the best that can be done???


I prefer to working with something like Johns copper/mg semiconductor type cell, especially if it really can really output the 500 mA, originally mentioned by him, and also reported by Silver to Gold. But that cell running in the video connected up, I believe only showed 10mA output. So, what is the real output of that type of Copper/Mg semiconductor cell, and, what is the Current output of the MR crystal cell, when they are just connected to a single red led, as a load.
Thanks in advance John, and if you don't want to answer, due to your relation with the Reid cell, I do understand.
NickZ

[jehdds]

Guys,
If a RED LED draws 10mA off a cell as measured while the load was on the cell, and the cell has 47mA dead short current,
if the LED lights at 1.8V and the cell starts at 2.21 Volts with 47mA dead short, theoretically how long should the LED Illuminate?
Thank you.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
Testing hour nine on the led and Carbon Mg cell sealed in a Mason Jar with 1cc water in the bottom as humidity reservoir and the cell is off the area where the water is.
I am attempting to see if the H20 is being digested or is just critical for ionic movement.

[NickZ]

@ Silver to Gold, and All:
I made a new AA size cell today using carbon and aluminum only, (no quartz in this cell). I used a small piece of aluminum tube (1/2' by2') as the cathode, and a carbon rod as the center anode. The electrolyte was just plain wood carbon that I found by a campfire. I washed it out, dried it well and crushed it to a powder. This cell outputs about a 1.2 volts, and 6 mA. No chemicals, salts, doping, heat, water, and not even the quartz.
Just two simple items can make this cell work, the aluminum tube cathode, and the carbon as the electrolyte, only, even without using the center carbon rod. The cell will light a red led by itself, with no oscillator. The led is dim, but its on... $0 cost cell, I was just playing around with what I had on hand.
NickZ

[area46241]

alum works great...

I would like to add a few lines today...(thanks for allowing me) I have made several alum batteries with copper and mag. and they work well. I don't like the striker stick adding foreign metal to the alum electrolyte upon breakdown of the mag stick. I have been using coffee filters and wetting them with saturated alum water and after two or three months they are like stones now. When the copper reaches the mag through the filters they diminish in power so thick stuffed filters around the mag works the best for me so far.
Just aquired an atv lead acid battery and hope to make an alkaline alum battery out of it....
Found my torch and have been aquiring the different salts..hope to layer it with careful consideration to atomic periodic table...and create a salt ion channeling dipole...I think these electrolyte solids need layering with a neomagnet close by when congealing into solid form like JB said....
I also think that its time for a vacume chamber test with a full vacume drawn to

[phinine]

Guys,
If a RED LED draws 10mA off a cell as measured while the load was on the cell, and the cell has 47mA dead short current,
if the LED lights at 1.8V and the cell starts at 2.21 Volts with 47mA dead short, theoretically how long should the LED Illuminate?
Thank you.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
Testing hour nine on the led and Carbon Mg cell sealed in a Mason Jar with 1cc water in the bottom as humidity reservoir and the cell is off the area where the water is.
I am attempting to see if the H20 is being digested or is just critical for ionic movement.

Yeah I hope you can draw a better conclusion as some of the cells with the salts seem to use water as fuel. As the water dries out so does the current. Also I breathed on one cell I made of copper and mag as the voltage dropped to .6 after a month. And once I started breathing on it the voltage rose with each breath up to 1.7 volts in about a minute or so before I got light headed from a blowing on it. The thing is the original voltage was never that high. It did not last long as the voltage dropped. But I addedsome drops of water and the voltage climbed again.

Hope to see your results soon and thanks for sharing your videos.

The palladium metal has some real interesting properties as I was reading about wikipedia. How much does the little piece cost. As it seems to be rare metal but it used mostly in catalytic converters on cars and I guess the reason why they cost so much

[jehdds]

Yeah I hope you can draw a better conclusion as some of the cells with the salts seem to use water as fuel. As the water dries out so does the current. Also I breathed on one cell I made of copper and mag as the voltage dropped to .6 after a month. And once I started breathing on it the voltage rose with each breath up to 1.7 volts in about a minute or so before I got light headed from a blowing on it. The thing is the original voltage was never that high. It did not last long as the voltage dropped. But I addedsome drops of water and the voltage climbed again.

Hope to see your results soon and thanks for sharing your videos.

The palladium metal has some real interesting properties as I was reading about wikipedia. How much does the little piece cost. As it seems to be rare metal but it used mostly in catalytic converters on cars and I guess the reason why they cost so much

I have not seen the current decrease that much with drying with my other cells but this test may confirm your finding. With my mini cells, rather the voltage seems to be affected more.
After 24 load test I ceased the test and warmed the jar. The LED did get a bit brighter. I opened and checked the cell and it registered 1.5 volts and 40 mA. The cell started at 2.21 V and 47mA. After sitting for 45 minutes, it is
now at 38.8mA and 1.65 Volts. Perhaps it will bounce back. I am noting a very interesting crystal growth from the electrolyte layer that has formed within the last 45 minutes. After letting this cell stabilize for 6 hours, I will see what the voltage is and may add a drop of water. Interesting to be sure.
I made a twin cell and it has been on the bench, and noted that there too was an increase in crystal volume. So, knowing that the cell was originally tested at 47mA, I added a drop of water to see if that would change the starting voltage and current level.
Now the twin cell shows about the same as starting 2.18 V and 46mA. So if crystal size helps current, it needs to be constrained within the electrodes or in a vessel to impart stress to the crystal. More tests to be sure.

Very Best Regards,
Jim