Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

If your cell needs water to keep it alive then your cell is more than likely a water battery. If your cell can't maintain over a volt without adding water for a month than its more than likely a water battery. If your cell looses most of its voltage after freezing it for more than 24 hours in your freezer than its more than likely a water battery. If your cell is constantly loosing voltage over time after you have made it but heating it up or getting it wet again brings it back to life than your cell is more than likely a water battery.


If your crystal cells turns out to be a water battery its not a bad thing, but water batteries don't last due to them corroding so the water battery will die much sooner than a crystal cell. I do incourage others to make a water battery so that you know what to stay away from when making a crystal cell. I do strongly recommend we stay away from water batteries and keep focus on Crystal cells. In a crystal cell what you want is a cell that gives a constant voltage with no load after its been made, does not go down in voltage over time with no load and bounces back to orgainal voltage when a load is removed. A cell that shows no corrsion, and a cell that does not need water to keep it alive is key to a crystal cell.

[ibpointless2]

In order to make a good crystal cell you must get a good understanding of galvanic. But to get a good understanding of galvanic you must understand water. So here's a really good video about water and I highly recommend others watch it, its well worth your time.

Water, Energy, and Life: Fresh Views From the Water's Edge - YouTube

[jehdds]

If your cell needs water to keep it alive then your cell is more than likely a water battery. If your cell can't maintain over a volt without adding water for a month than its more than likely a water battery. If your cell looses most of its voltage after freezing it for more than 24 hours in your freezer than its more than likely a water battery. If your cell is constantly loosing voltage over time after you have made it but heating it up or getting it wet again brings it back to life than your cell is more than likely a water battery.


If your crystal cells turns out to be a water battery its not a bad thing, but water batteries don't last due to them corroding so the water battery will die much sooner than a crystal cell. I do incourage others to make a water battery so that you know what to stay away from when making a crystal cell. I do strongly recommend we stay away from water batteries and keep focus on Crystal cells. In a crystal cell what you want is a cell that gives a constant voltage with no load after its been made, does not go down in voltage over time with no load and bounces back to orgainal voltage when a load is removed. A cell that shows no corrsion, and a cell that does not need water to keep it alive is key to a crystal cell.

All very possible. Rather than comparing to a normal "wet" water battery, I choose to observe carefully and may be more reserved at this point in jumping to conclusions of what I am staring at on my bench. I have before me cells that are open and unconstrained carbon Mg that have not been touched and maintain the voltage now for weeks. The only difference is that when I placed the electrolyte, it was molten and I used a hand vice to minimize any excessive crystal growth, as well, I did NOT incorporate the silica gel into it. The new cell has silica gel as an attempt to keep the water trapped in the lattice. I also have small mini cells that I drain and they come back with a breath. There is more than water battery here perhaps. Time will tell. There seems to be no continual galvanic action on the magnesium. The volume of liquid necessary to have a dry cell come to life is MICROLITER aliquot volumes.
Yet the commonality to all the cells we are making that have been shown, with the exception of the glass type 800C admixture that JB showed us, all contain some form of trapped water, INCLUDING the MR cell. My cell I am describing uses the same electrolyte as my sealed cells. The sealed cells had all the characteristics of the MR battery which also has trapped moisture,
However due to poor choice of housing material, the glass shattered. This cell was made as an experiment in observing the crystal growth with unconstrained layers that can be observed, without any glue binding etc.
You see, the only way to ensure what you may call a crystal battery, without water is to ensure it is anhydrous. This can be done perhaps in a vacuum chamber and drawing it down to the levels necessary for making a plasma tube or sputter coating. Even if you mix what appears to be dry quartz or carbon, to think that ambient moisture is not part of the lattice is perhaps not correct. Is it incorrect that Positive Ions can only flow in gas or liquid state?
If that is correct and I have read that this is true, what does that intrinsically tell us?
I am only trying to add my humble experiments to perhaps help others not make the same mistakes or perhaps find something of worth.
I am not entirely sure of what I have made as per description of battery type.
I do not however equate it with a wet cell battery. It is not that at all.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

All very possible. Rather than comparing to a normal "wet" water battery, I choose to observe carefully and may be more reserved at this point in jumping to conclusions of what I am staring at on my bench. I have before me cells that are open and unconstrained carbon Mg that have not been touched and maintain the voltage now for weeks. The only difference is that when I placed the electrolyte, it was molten and I used a hand vice to minimize any excessive crystal growth, as well, I did NOT incorporate the silica gel into it. The new cell has silica gel as an attempt to keep the water trapped in the lattice. I also have small mini cells that I drain and they come back with a breath. There is more than water battery here perhaps. Time will tell. There seems to be no continual galvanic action on the magnesium. The volume of liquid necessary to have a dry cell come to life is MICROLITER aliquot volumes.
Yet the commonality to all the cells we are making that have been shown, with the exception of the glass type 800C admixture that JB showed us, all contain some form of trapped water, INCLUDING the MR cell. My cell I am describing uses the same electrolyte as my sealed cells. The sealed cells had all the characteristics of the MR battery which also has trapped moisture,
However due to poor choice of housing material, the glass shattered. This cell was made as an experiment in observing the crystal growth with unconstrained layers that can be observed, without any glue binding etc.
You see, the only way to ensure what you may call a crystal battery, without water is to ensure it is anhydrous. This can be done perhaps in a vacuum chamber and drawing it down to the levels necessary for making a plasma tube or sputter coating. Even if you mix what appears to be dry quartz or carbon, to think that ambient moisture is not part of the lattice is perhaps not correct. Is it incorrect that Positive Ions can only flow in gas or liquid state?
If that is correct and I have read that this is true, what does that intrinsically tell us?
I am only trying to add my humble experiments to perhaps help others not make the same mistakes or perhaps find something of worth.
I am not entirely sure of what I have made as per description of battery type.
I do not however equate it with a wet cell battery. It is not that at all.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

I've said before that water is a crystal, but also water dissolves anything because its the universal solvent. I recommend watching this video. Water, Energy, and Life: Fresh Views From the Water's Edge - YouTube

[jehdds]

I've said before that water is a crystal, but also water dissolves anything because its the universal solvent. I recommend watching this video. Water, Energy, and Life: Fresh Views From the Water's Edge - YouTube

Excellent Video Thank you.
Please let us know what the ideal definition of a crystal battery is.
This way we can all direct our efforts towards that.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[NickZ]

The only thing these cells have in common with galvanic cells is that they can both oxidize to some degree. If there is moisture or the cells are exposed to humidity they will certainly break down as any battery would, that is not sealed air tight.
But, don't forget that galvanic batteries charge and discharge, in an endless self consuming process or cycle. These two different metal type of cells don't charge and discharge, (ships go one way, like a diode), and their output is perpetual, and is not based on the dissolution of sacrificial cathodes.
There is a difference, as their endless output is coming from the ambient energies that surround the cell, which is not limited to the digestion of metal, as long as the cells are Not Allowed To Oxidize. That endless power supply is not just coming from a chemical reaction of metals turning to dust, even though we see that can happens to the metals of wet cells, cells exposed to the air, or exposed to caustic chemicals.
Not all that quacks like a duck... is a duck.

[plengo]

Excellent video IB.

Everytime i add water to my oldest cells they are much stronger than when started.

I think that the formation of the cystal structure of the electrolyte plus the "crystal water" as per video is what is running those cells. Water is the source of the diapole where the electrolyte creates a perfect envirionment for the watwr crystal formation.

I wonder if creating a gelly electrolyte will improve this.

Fausto.

[quantumuppercut]

From the video it seems like we can engineer a photosynthesis cell. I've drawn up a concept of making a cell. I think he mentioned that hydrophobe material does not have exclusion zone (EZ) . If these coats conduct that would be even better because we can protect the metal, otherwise two similar metal would minimize galvanic. We can just paint a coat of hydrophile on the conductor surface and dip them in water? Now where can I find some nafion lol.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

[ibpointless2]

The energy between two metals in a electrolyte has never been the reason for corrosion. The corrosion doesn't happen due to dissimilar metals. The corrosion happens due to water. The proof is that when you use the same metals in water you still have the plates corrode. Even if you have one single plate in water by itself it will still corrode, thus proving that water is doing all the corroding. This is why I say stay away from water, if water is involved then the metals will corrode due to water being the universal solvent.

But water stills plays a role. I showed that video to show you all that water is the crystal, but not all of water was a crystal. The Water grew a crystal layer on the top of it and I do think that when a crystal such as Epsom salt contains not just plain water in its lattice (that would not make sense) but instead contains that crystal water in its lattice. It would make sense that the crystal water would help to make the crystal lattice of the inside of the crystal. But just because Epsom salt contains a Water crystal lattice to some degree does not mean you can make a galvanic battery out of it. Sticking two electrodes into a cup of Epsom salt shows that you get no voltage even though the Epsom salt contains mostly water. So to have a good cell you must master water, water can be your friend and your worst enemy.



A off topic note. If some of you know the capillary effect then water growing as a crystal would make sense why water grows up in a narrow tube but never falls out.

[quantumuppercut]

The energy between two metals in a electrolyte has never been the reason for corrosion. The corrosion doesn't happen due to dissimilar metals. The corrosion happens due to water.

I've also thought of this possibility. My approach is not to avoid water but rather protect from water. I tried to put a protection layer over dissimilar metal but it takes away the voltage. I believe we can still get voltage but the layer has to be a few atoms in thickness. The problem we facing right now is we're not convinced that this is general corrosion and not galvanic. We're doing a good job of sorting out using logic and experiment. Keep up the good work.

[everyidea]

Now where can I find some nafion lol.

Here ya go:
NAFION® Products

rw

[everyidea]

Stinkin' thread won't let me update my post...

You'll have trouble with nafion conducting anions, seeing that it only conducts cations. You'll have to add an electrode in the EZ zone, either close or on the nafion. You could do this by gold deposition and create a "web" of gold that still exposes the nafion to the water but allows anions to flow in the battery. If you don't use gold then you're back to corrosion.

rw

[b_rads]

Interesting Tests

@all
Some interesting results from the weekend and comments are welcome as I do not fully understand why the experiments worked out like they did.

I prepared a semiconductor piece of copper foil with the red Cuprous Oxide (Cu2O) on one side and the black Cupric Oxide (CuO) on the other side. I heated the foil with a butane torch and rinsed in tap water after it cooled. Readings were very similar regardless which side I used.

Using a plain shiny piece of magnesium (Mg) touching the copper, I read plus or minus 1 Volt. Depending on how much surface area contacted the copper determined the current. I cannot be positive the metals were absolutely dry even though they appeared to be.

Preparing a piece of Mg as shown by Jim (jehdds) with an oxide covering, and touching the copper I could read plus or minus 1.1 to 1.3Volts and again the current was determined by the contact area.

Again, using the oxide covered Mg, and adding a single drop of water to the copper, the voltage increased to plus or minus 1.6 to 1.75. Current depending on contact area for my small sample could read in the low 10’s ma.

It is interesting that the metals are in direct contact with each other and will still produce.. Another test I will perform in a few days will be to use glue and ZnO painted anode and retest. Since “Elmer’s White Glue All” is not considered as water tight and water proof, I will use wood glue (Titebond II or III) which is ANSI approved water tight and water proof. If I still get positive readings using the prepared anode, I think this might lead to some interesting discussion.

Brad S

[NextGen1967]

@all
Some interesting results from the weekend and comments are welcome as I do not fully understand why the experiments worked out like they did.

I prepared a semiconductor piece of copper foil with the red Cuprous Oxide (Cu2O) on one side and the black Cupric Oxide (CuO) on the other side. I heated the foil with a butane torch and rinsed in tap water after it cooled. Readings were very similar regardless which side I used.

Using a plain shiny piece of magnesium (Mg) touching the copper, I read plus or minus 1 Volt. Depending on how much surface area contacted the copper determined the current. I cannot be positive the metals were absolutely dry even though they appeared to be.

Preparing a piece of Mg as shown by Jim (jehdds) with an oxide covering, and touching the copper I could read plus or minus 1.1 to 1.3Volts and again the current was determined by the contact area.

Again, using the oxide covered Mg, and adding a single drop of water to the copper, the voltage increased to plus or minus 1.6 to 1.75. Current depending on contact area for my small sample could read in the low 10’s ma.

It is interesting that the metals are in direct contact with each other and will still produce.. Another test I will perform in a few days will be to use glue and ZnO painted anode and retest. Since “Elmer’s White Glue All” is not considered as water tight and water proof, I will use wood glue (Titebond II or III) which is ANSI approved water tight and water proof. If I still get positive readings using the prepared anode, I think this might lead to some interesting discussion.

Brad S

Very good !

A replication with good results... If you measure on the oxide covered electrode, you might find it is a non conductive area, thus you can put the two metals together... The layer will separate them, and avoids direct contact.

So what would happen if you place the drop between them, and then seal it of with the water resistant glue. (the cell might expand as described before, so the glue would need to be quite sturdy to compensate for this).

--
Ron.

[John_Bedini]

Semiconductors/Crystal battery

B rads,
If you would use the Hotpoint method you will find that the black copper oxide is making a N type device and the red is making a P type device. These are all semiconductors. use the group chart in the elements to dope it, then cook it for a few minutes. It make a good crystal battery.
John B