Bedini Earth Light

[John_Bedini]

Heptahydrates

I have gone back sereral pages and don't see any directions for making a carbonate cell. Are we supposed to guess at it? I don't want to waste time and or money making something not up to par. Are Rochelle salts still used?

John and Chuck, I just moved 13 miles north of Sandpoint.

Alan

Radiant1,
I have talked about this in the past under Heptahydrates read through the posts. Instructions I gave to Lidmotor and Ibpointlass just tonight.

Look at the Heptahydrates, Silicates, Sodium Carbonate Salt Substitute this is all compatible, cook your copper until you get that color that I'm talking about. also forming the cell is very important under load. Impedance is the next issue 1/2 backs up into the cell. don't spray paint anything and no WD40 at all, just that straight mix, try it.
Real simple mix no rocket science here.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Heptahydrates, hydrates Crystal Cell

Nickz
FYI,
If your going to use aluminum then you must use the aluminum silicates and form a hydrate #5 or better and that is not easy to do.
The carbonate cells use water but a small amount the chemicals are called Heptahydrates not much information on them. Look at the chemical formulas that will tell you the chemical makeup and how much water they are holding. The Idea is to lock up the water in the bonds so the cell becomes a current source. If your looking for voltage that is not it. A crystal cell using the hydrates are current sources. The oscillators Chuck and I are using are very low impedance devices so current is very important. Again the impedance must be in balance as 1/2 moves into the cell. So if chuck is showing 30 Ma the cell must put out over 60 Ma inside the cell the current is ion movement in the lattice, electrons to the plates.
John B

[chuck H]

Carbonate crystal cell update

This shows the carbonate crystal (Heptahydrate) cell Does well at 39 deg and comes back to about 30Ma when back at room temp (69 deg). The only light is from this single cell running the 8 LEDs on the Bedini osc light circuit. This is shot from my Droid smart phone.

Carbonate crystal cell back at room temp 11042011.3gp - YouTube

[NextGen1967]

@John Bedini and All

I feel like this whole semi-conductor thing has gotten a little out of hand. I don't see a semi-conductor action happening and if one is happening then its very small, as in only a few mV. I see only two things happening here, Galvanic or Advanced Galvanic.

Galvanic is what anyone would expect, a cell that uses a chemical process to break down metal to generate electricity.

Advance Galvanic's is the same thing but with the lack of metals corroding. You get a galvanic reaction but the metals don't break down and if the metals don't break down than the cell runs for longer and could recharge itself too. This is a good thing, if the metals don't die then the dipole is kept alive.


The reason for me saying semi-conductors have very little to due with the cells is simple. Our cells voltage depends on what metals used, and the metals used follow the galvanic chart. Plate size affects amps just like in a galvanic cell. Our cells only boil down to whether they're galvanic or advanced galvanic. If your cell is advanced galvanic then its a good thing as the metals don't corrode and if they don't corrode then you have a cell that will output for a long time.

@IB

I am a bit confused about what you try to state here...

galvanic as definition means oxidation/reduction, so by saying 'advanced galvanic' is the same as galvanic but without the galvanic reaction, there can not be galvanic action at all by definition. (at least that is how I would see it).

Then :

'You get a galvanic reaction but the metals don't break down and if the metals don't break down than the cell runs for longer and could recharge itself too.'

How/Why would now suddenly a cell recharge itself?

The standard potential between two metals (voltage) is just that.. a potential, but generally it does not produce much amperage -if at all-. It might be interesting to find out a bit *why* this potential is caused. Placing two dissimilar metals strips together and bend them will make a galvanometer deflect the needle...

Then -I think it was you who place a link to the video about water-' take the water educational video... Shown here is that water (no two dissimilar metals) can produce that same potential and it is able to transport 'electric current'.

It might be a good idea to just don't think to much in one direction only. A few post ago JB stated something like:

'the current is ion movement in the lattice, electrons to the plates.'

If you think about it, one can see some similarities with that water movie... What happens with water(molecules) that is under the force of a potential field (a cell under load has an internal potential field). ? is it still 'bulk' water?

@ John / Chuck

Nice to see there is a lot of experimenting going on with the cells. JB you brought me on to an idea with talking about the salmon color... I will try something the coming few days.. Just a few simple tests. Give me a few days time.. Busy weekend.

@ John B

If you all look at the new cell you will see it is build like an E core in a transformer

I noticed that yes. But I can't see very clear what is in the inside of the inner leg of the 'E'... It that just empty space surrounding the magnesium (to apply water or so for expirimenting), or is it also filled with mix ?

--
Ron.

[ibpointless2]

@IB

I am a bit confused about what you try to state here...

galvanic as definition means oxidation/reduction, so by saying 'advanced galvanic' is the same as galvanic but without the galvanic reaction, there can not be galvanic action at all by definition. (at least that is how I would see it).

Then :

How/Why would now suddenly a cell recharge itself?

The standard potential between two metals (voltage) is just that.. a potential, but generally it does not produce much amperage -if at all-. It might be interesting to find out a bit *why* this potential is caused. Placing two dissimilar metals strips together and bend them will make a galvanometer deflect the needle...

Then -I think it was you who place a link to the video about water-' take the water educational video... Shown here is that water (no two dissimilar metals) can produce that same potential and it is able to transport 'electric current'.

It might be a good idea to just don't think to much in one direction only. A few post ago JB stated something like:

'the current is ion movement in the lattice, electrons to the plates.'

If you think about it, one can see some similarities with that water movie... What happens with water(molecules) that is under the force of a potential field (a cell under load has an internal potential field). ? is it still 'bulk' water?

@ John / Chuck

Nice to see there is a lot of experimenting going on with the cells. JB you brought me on to an idea with talking about the salmon color... I will try something the coming few days.. Just a few simple tests. Give me a few days time.. Busy weekend.

@ John B



I noticed that yes. But I can't see very clear what is in the inside of the inner leg of the 'E'... It that just empty space surrounding the magnesium (to apply water or so for expirimenting), or is it also filled with mix ?

--
Ron.

I'm saying there is two forms, galvanic and some other form that is not galvanic but shares the same similarities of galvanic's except it doesn't destroy the metals.

The reason why a galvanic cell looses power is due to the metals being destroyed, less metal less power. The other form doesn't destroy the metals and if the metals stay intact than they still have their power.

[ibpointless2]

@John Bedini

"Look at the Heptahydrates, Silicates, Sodium Carbonate Salt Substitute"

So i'm guessing this is what makes you carbonate cells work?



So all we need is Epsom salt, Silicates, Sodium Carbonate and Salt substitute right? I stated Epsom salt because its a Heptahydrate. This reminds me of my Crystal Glue cells where I only use Epsom salt and Salt substitute and Elmer's glue. The Silicates would seem to hold in water and the sodium carbonate seems to boost it a bit. This also reminds me of when I was taking my glue cell and trying to boost its power with Borax which contains sodium tetraborate in it, so your cells and my cells share a lot of things in common.

[viruskiller]

I have found this very important information

Hello everybody,

You can see this link, or consulted this PDF.

The secret is a carnauba wax. Which element that contains, who transcend energy.

Wax carnauba contain: aliphatic esters (40 wt%), diesters of 4-hydroxycinnamic acid (21.0 wt%), ω-hydroxycarboxylic acids (13.0 wt%), and fatty acid alcohols (12 wt%). The compounds are predominantly derived from acids and alcohols in the C26-C30 range. Distinctive for carnauba wax is the high content of diesters as well as methoxycinnamic acid.

The Melting point: 82–86 °C is very high for a wax. It could be interesting experiment wax of rice melting point similar 81°C.

Cires et gommes végétales et naturelles Aroma-Zone
Link in French

And another thing, IT COULD BE INTERESTING TO TEST GRANITE STONE IN ROCK CELL BECAUSE IS A LITTLE RADIOACTIVE GAZ. And is very important in all inventions use radioactivity. Element has not to neglect in your laboratory

it would be interesting to experiment each components.

Good Reading, and good experiments

[viruskiller]

I have found this very important information

Hello everybody,

You can see this link, or consulted this PDF.

The secret is a carnauba wax. Which element that contains, who transcend energy.

Wax carnauba contain: aliphatic esters (40 wt%), diesters of 4-hydroxycinnamic acid (21.0 wt%), ω-hydroxycarboxylic acids (13.0 wt%), and fatty acid alcohols (12 wt%). The compounds are predominantly derived from acids and alcohols in the C26-C30 range. Distinctive for carnauba wax is the high content of diesters as well as methoxycinnamic acid.

The Melting point: 82–86 °C is very high for a wax. It could be interesting experiment wax of rice melting point similar 81°C.

Cires et gommes végétales et naturelles Aroma-Zone
Link in French

And another thing, IT COULD BE INTERESTING TO TEST GRANITE STONE IN ROCK CELL BECAUSE IS A LITTLE RADIOACTIVE GAZ. And is very important in all inventions use radioactivity. Element has not to neglect in your laboratory

it would be interesting to experiment each components.

Good Reading, and good experiments

https://sites.google.com/site/applie...arch/electrets

[MonsieurM]

I just thought you guys might be interested in the following for the creation of your crystal batteries

from: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...netism-41.html

Here is a very nice website: good for your magnetized water

OSnano

Open Source Nanotechnology

Open Source Nano is an invitation to participate in the innovations of nanotechnology right from the start. It is an experiment in making high-tech laboratory research something that can be improved and innovated outside the laboratory, by making it “vernacular”–putting it in the language that people speak, and the tools and materials they have at hand.

At this stage, it consists of only one project: instructions for creating magnetite nanocrystals; but we hope this project will inspire others in the future. What can you do with magnetite nanocrystals?

Why? Magnetite Nanocrystals are good for removing arsenic from water. Based on recent advances in nanotechnology, it’s now possible to make regular magnetite nanocrystals as small as 20-100nm, and to remove them from solution using a handheld magnet. Arsenic poisoning is a huge problem in Southeast Asia, especially in Bangladesh, and in various other parts of the world. Our project opens up the process for making magnetite and encourages you to experiment with it, contribute to it, and improve it.

Step 1: Prepare and Collect Ingredients

(a) Ingredients for a typical nanocrystal synthesis include: Oil, vinegar, pan, crystal drain openerTM and rust.
Step 2: Make your own soap.

(b-c) Synthesis begins with soapmaking. For this the oil is mixed with crystal drain openerTM and water.
(d) After curing for a day the soap solidifies.
Step 3: Produce a Fatty Acid Mixture

(e) For efficient dissolution in subsequent steps, the soap is ground to a fine powder,
(f) then mixed with vinegar
(g-h) while heating on a stove.
(i-j) Once all the soap is dissolved the solution forms two layers: a yellow top layer and a cloudy white/yellow bottom layer.
(k) The top layer is the fatty acid mixture (FAM). This needs to be heated at 110 oC to remove excess water and vinegar by-products.
(l) Clear yellow FAM is collected.
Step 4: Collect and Grind some Rust

(m-n) Rust was scraped off of rusted metals and was ground to a fine powder.
Step 5:Cook/grow your own magnetite crystals

(o) FAM and rust were mixed.
(p-q) Mixture was heated for 2 hours at below and near boiling temperatures. The temperature was measured using a standard mercury thermometer.
(r-s) Magnetite (black) began to form.
Step 6: Verify your Magnetite Crystals

(t) TEM micrograph was obtained after magnetic separation in chloroform. Scale bar is 50 nm.

[jehdds]

Dear John and Chuck, Lidomotor,IB,Rick et al,
Is it just me or do your crystal cells NOT add Current in Parallel?
I just Tried this and Current stays the same with parallel cells on my experiments. I only get additive current in series as well as additive voltage.
Thoughts?
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[Lidmotor]

Amperage

Dear John and Chuck, Lidomotor,IB,Rick et al,
Is it just me or do your crystal cells NOT add Current in Parallel?
I just Tried this and Current stays the same with parallel cells on my experiments. I only get additive current in series as well as additive voltage.
Thoughts?
Very Best Regards,
Jim

@Jim
I have had very poor luck linking my cells together in any way. It is probably because they are all different. I have seen fairly normal series / parallel links though. If the cells were all the same then my results might be better.

@All
I went back and looked at some of the videos and posts dealing with the oxides on the metal electrodes. The copper oxide rectifier layer I understand and there is LOTS of info on that. It is the oxide layer on the magnesium that has my attention because it is that metal that gets eaten up. Jim's video here was most helpful.

Copper Oxide Red vs Black - YouTube

John and Chuck if you are using another method then please let us know. There is much info online about how to put a protective oxide layer on magnesium but we need the correct one for this application. Without that layer ----I think that we are just making a galvanic cell and spinning our wheels.

The carbonate cell that I showed in my video yesterday I left running the Penny LED oscillator over night ----and ran down. This morning I placed one drop of distilled water on the cell and it came back just as strong as yesterday. The question is: what is going on inside? The hot glue sealed up cell that used the Alum, salt substitute, and borax is still operating but the volatge has dropped slightly. This morning I froze it in the freezer and it only went down slightly but came right back once it warmed up.

Lidmotor

[NickZ]

Jim:
Your question about what carbon to use is a valid one. Unfortunately I can't answer that as I'm not sure yet. I have been trying several types, as each source of carbon is made from different types of wood, etz... So, I test their conductivity to see which one have less resistance, as you've done with the two carbon types in your single cell. I think that this is a good way to start.
I have also noticed that some cells can be placed in parallel, and will produce varying output results, when using different materials, some with better current outputs than others, and so their placement may not be just 100 % one way or the other. But have I've not placed much attention on that aspect, until I find the best source of carbon to use.
I would also give the carpenter pencil leads a try, as they have much more mass than the smaller ones.
I have found better result from the small pencil leads even when compared to the carbon rods that come out of carbon/zinc batteries. Just as you have found when using the bigger welding rods compared to pencil leads. So, there is a lot more to learn, as the amount of mass involved is not all that is important.

John B: Can you please explain a little more about the use of silicates with the aluminum, and how to obtain the desired results. Much appreciated,.. you seam to have a wealth of information that maybe some of us (like me) are slow to pick up on.
I must add that this thread has gotten nothing less than amazing...
NickZ

[Slider2732]

Ya know how most of us seem to be using DVM's with a 200mA scale and then it jumps to 10A ? Well I want to join that 10A meter setting club that a couple of you guys have now shown.

I tried the copper to salmon colour method last night, using galvanized steel again as the other electrode.
Mix was the same as some previous cells - equal parts of cooked baking soda, alum, epsom salts...but this time featuring Morton's Salt Substitute.
And, am I glad I made a point of finding it at Walmart last night !
The mix was made into a very thick paste with a couple of drops of water and much stirring - only 0.811V but 91mA initial current reading
After several hours, it spikes when the meter is connected, but drops to around 36mA with the meter as direct load.
It's now sealed with hotglue, the cell is on test with an oscillator...though a sMartCreations2010 circuit and pulsed rotor (to Lidmotor's diagram on his YouTube channel) are the plan for future cells. Moving up then to the kind of setup that Lasersaber showed the other day, of a full on multi-coil pulse motor.

The copper was heated and reheated many times. It began to soften too. Quenching in water would pull the black oxide partly from the surface but allowed the colour check. The same side was in contact with the cooker ring as heat source each time. So, the next thing is a better metal than steel.
That's 10x the usual output of own made cells to exactly the same construction and method. Cheers guys for that ingredient tip and JB for the copper treatment.
I can fully see now why salt substitute has remained a favourite

[John_Bedini]

Hydrate Crystal Cell

Ibpointless,
yes your mixture works in this application, you asked if I ever built your cells and tested them. I did but without the glue as that part did not fit into what I was doing. I looked at each chemical and what proportions that give the most energy, I also looked at each crystal structure. the most important thing is, will the chemicals all fit and work together.

Heptahydrates trap water in the crystal as we all found out with Epsom salts and so on. Water in the bond is not a bad thing if you can use it to kick off electrons from the Ion movement within the crystal lattice. Epsom Salts is the formula MgSO4·7H2O here you can see the 7 waters attached so it is a good hydrate. So the reaction, is the reaction of water in the chemical combined with the others to form a current flow between electrodes, it's just changing one form of energy to another and taping that flow.

The cooking of the copper to form oxide layer is very important and the same for the Magnesium as you do not want these metals to be attacked. You form the Dipole and then tap the energy between it without killing it, if you start to kill it the Galvanic action takes place. The silica draws in the water for the hydrates, the Sodium Carbonate, Salt Substitute transfers the electrical current to the oxides. This is the best I can explain it to all of you. You trade one form of energy to another and that is the way it is.
John B

[ibpointless2]

Ibpointless,
yes your mixture works in this application, you asked if I ever built your cells and tested them. I did but without the glue as that part did not fit into what I was doing. I looked at each chemical and what proportions that give the most energy, I also looked at each crystal structure. the most important thing is, will the chemicals all fit and work together.

Heptahydrates trap water in the crystal as we all found out with Epsom salts and so on. Water in the bond is not a bad thing if you can use it to kick off electrons from the Ion movement within the crystal lattice. Epsom Salts is the formula MgSO4·7H2O here you can see the 7 waters attached so it is a good hydrate. So the reaction, is the reaction of water in the chemical combined with the others to form a current flow between electrodes, it's just changing one form of energy to another and taping that flow.

The cooking of the copper to form oxide layer is very important and the same for the Magnesium as you do not want these metals to be attacked. You form the Dipole and then tap the energy between it without killing it, if you start to kill it the Galvanic action takes place. The silica draws in the water for the hydrates, the Sodium Carbonate, Salt Substitute transfers the electrical current to the oxides. This is the best I can explain it to all of you. You trade one form of energy to another and that is the way it is.
John B

A water molecule in the physical make up of the salt or crystal is not a bad thing. It is true Epsom salt contains 7 water molecules and they're locked up in the lattice but no cell uses that water unless the Epsom salt is heated. When you heat Epsom salt it releases its water and the voltage goes up on the cell. Not heating the Epsom salt allows the water to stay trapped in the lattice and then the cell doesn't use water because it can't get to it. This is why a glue cell with only Epsom salt and nothing else makes a horrible cell due to the electrodes can't touch the water in the lattice unless you heat it up. I'm sure you already know this John Bedini, that the water in Epsom salt is not touching the electrodes unless heat is applied so that the water can come out of it lattice. But the Water in the lattice does play a role, a non-galvanic role because its not touching the metals.

The big goal here is for everyone's cells to not destroy the metals, if the metals become destroyed then you are destroying the dipole. Tom Bearden wrote a great book about not destroying the dipole and if anyone has not read it I would advise you to read it.

I honestly feel strong about the oxide layer is not going to protect you from a galvanic reaction. The oxide will for sure slow down the reaction but won't stop it. But I will shut my mouth for now until I have given the Carbonate cells a full and fair test because I have been wrong before.