Bedini Earth Light

[kukulcangod]

Nickz
Only after 30 to 45 mins but they keep coming back after a few hrs. One way or another the effect has been there all of this years and I like that, but with the salt battery they lasted at least 10 hrs!! So if it recharges during the day it will be very cool, wifey will be happeyyy, well she is with or without it ..I will fimd out after work how much the cement recovers over time... haven't seen your pics yet but its great that yours work without the oscillators...curious about mix and dimentions of your batteries...with the cement cell ,the lights go dim for a while and then go off, I disconnect them and current builds up like I said ..I will try now a bedini set up to try to selrecharge and and to achieve continuous operation, but that's why we are here ....any suggestions are welcomed.. Pura vida!! cheers

[NickZ]

kkCgod:
I know what you mean by the charging and discharging but that is not really why the leds are getting dim and the voltage levels drop, and then apparently charge back up again. But it can be viewed in that way in any case.
There is an impedance or inner resistance that builds up on the anode, which will not allow the ions to flow through it. Until those hydrogen ions are further absorbed by the air to create water. That is why the leds will go out, and then back on again, later. This is not only my opinion, but can also happen to a lesser degree with many if not all the cells of different types, and is one of the things that we need to work on, still.
I wish that I had a solution, but like John B has mentioned, don't take more from the cells than they can give (less draw), so you don't break their dipole, and continue using an efficient oscillator. So, that your wife will not be disappointed...
The big spiraled copper coils inside my tall beer can cement cells allows them to output 50mA to 70mA, at first, and less as time goes by, to about 30ma now. This is with no draw on them. They would work great as they do when first connected to the leds, if it were not for the impedance issue.
It would take a big pile of AA batteries to do what my cells have already done, and continue doing. They are close to one year old, and have not died. I'll be dead and gone, and these cells will still work. But, I would not recommend making them anymore, as there are better working cells now.
Todo bien,
Nick

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is my first attempt at a machined cylinder cell using the usual and customary ZnO Mix with Pure CaCO3 and MgSO4, doped in the usual manner.
GRAPHITE is the Cathode material, so that small diameter electrodes can be made to make a 1:1 comparison on Cathode size and output etc.
Analog meters used to obviate DMM issues. This is encouraging and we will see what the cell shows in a few days etc. The electrolyte is ROCK HARD.
ZnO Cylinder #1 - YouTube
Very Best Regards and all thoughts welcome.
Jim

[kukulcangod]

Only after 30 to 45 mins but they keep coming back after a few hrs but with the salt battery they lasted at least 10 hrs!! So if it recharges during the day it will be very cool ..I will fimd out after work, haven't seen your pics yet but its great tjat yours work without the oscillators...curious about mix and dimentions of your batteries...the lights go dim for a while and then go off I disconnect them and current builds up like I said ..I will try now a bedini set up to try to selrecharge and and to achieve continuous operation cheers

Update: as of nov 17 midnight, the salts battery is going on 2 days of continues operation, and it seems it could hold for a couple more days...

[kukulcangod]

kkCgod:
I know what you mean by the charging and discharging but that is not really why the leds are getting dim and the voltage levels drop, and then apparently charge back up again. But it can be viewed in that way in any case.
There is an impedance or inner resistance that builds up on the anode, which will not allow the ions to flow through it. Until those hydrogen ions are further absorbed by the air to create water. That is why the leds will go out, and then back on again, later. This is not only my opinion, but can also happen to a lesser degree with many if not all the cells of different types, and is one of the things that we need to work on, still.
I wish that I had a solution, but like John B has mentioned, don't take more from the cells than they can give (less draw), so you don't break their dipole, and continue using an efficient oscillator. So, that your wife will not be disappointed...
The big spiraled copper coils inside my tall beer can cement cells allows them to output 50mA to 70mA, at first, and less as time goes by, to about 30ma now. This is with no draw on them. They would work great as they do when first connected to the leds, if it were not for the impedance issue.
It would take a big pile of AA batteries to do what my cells have already done, and continue doing. They are close to one year old, and have not died. I'll be dead and gone, and these cells will still work. But, I would not recommend making them anymore, as there are better working cells now.
Todo bien,
Nick

I've trying to determine what was making them come back, your theory makes sense, I was thinking more along the lines of remaining chemical reactions due to the cement additives still fighting to give out their last chemical reaction energy...But I'm hoping like with our Olmec Heads(i'm the one who got shocked by this energy accumulated in the "Head of Hueyepan") and piramids, where the energy gets accumulated in time ,that this will also would hapen to this cells, slowly but surely that is. I do agree that I would need to recalculate my circuit in order to make it more efficient and to make the battery appear to be in a continuos operation mode, then again , yes there are better batteries already but I'm working with what is available, thanks for the feedback, good luck.

[NickZ]

This "theory" is not just my idea, and is common knowledge in the battery industry, and is also present in most cells and batteries to one degree or another.
Our cement cells are perpetual output sources, and some can last a long time, as they are not just "galvanic" in nature, although they are galvanic if there is water present. But after some time, any water that may still be present is locked up in the structure, like it is with some of the "crystal cells". And is not causing any further chemical galvanic reaction, or deterioration of the metals, as it did at first. Some would say the cell is dead, but mainly because their cells had such a small current output even at the beginning, that once that level drops a bit, it appears dead, or can be considered dead, or as you think, discharged. But, don't try to charge them from another source, or you will destroy them, even faster.

If the cement cells are soaked in a water and Alum bath solution overnight or longer like several days, the cell will again produce voltage, until it dries out, and again will appear to be dead. This is the life process or cycle of the cement cells. Placing a conductive grease on the positive anode terminal of the cell can help, some.
If you continue to wet them, their metals will oxidize, the aluminum will start to dissolve, and the copper will foam a black coating of copper oxide that will stop any further ion movement from happening, as it is a complete insulator, in this case, which is caused by the electrolysis action.

It is best to follow this thread, and make new and improved cells, that don't require water in order to work, as we are trying to do now.

A cell building process that can be used in poor countries, for people that can not afford to buy the best materials to use, to produce their own low light levels without any cost, I have not found, yet. Unless you use galvanics, which will work temporally, but, at the expense of the metals that will be consumed in the process. This chemical process is what we are all trying to avoid here, as it means the death of the cell or battery, in time.
I hope this helps...
I will not comment any further on this, as I'm boring the rest of my companeros, here. As they know all about this, and have moved on to building better cells, as I have done, and suggest you also do.
NickZ

[everyidea]

Zinc Oxide Hydrophobic

For those wanting a n-type coating on their anode that is hydrophobic, here is a great way to do it with ZnO and n-octadecyl thiol (ODT). What this will do is create a water barrier for your anode and stop all corrosion from water.

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[NickZ]

@ Jim:
Holy Shi*, you've done it again. Outstanding results as well as great looking cells. And, I'm very exited to see the results of your ongoing tests.

Nick

[jehdds]

@ Jim:
Holy Shi*, you've done it again. Outstanding results as well as great looking cells. And, I'm very exited to see the results of your ongoing tests.

Nick

Nick,
I checked the output this morning and it was not 90mA.
Dry as a bone more like 17ma.
I'm letting this thing sit next to a dehumidifier to see what it makes.
My next test while dehydrated is to do a thermal test to see if we can utilize the strict piezo effect and not dicker with h2o for a bit.....
Very Best regards,
Jim

[NickZ]

Jim:
Thanks for the update. It is important to know just why some cells start out nice and high then drop to much lower output. If it has to do with the water content, or perhaps something else like the impedance. Maybe this is all normal and to be expected from this kind of cell. I suspect that it could be that the larger mass is storing the higher charge, but then for some reason discharges it like a capacitor, under load. But that would not be the case if the standing voltage drops as well.
In any case, you've done a great job, in following up on all of this.

John had also mentioned that the carbonate cell started at 150mA, but were under-rated at that, and that it was more like 250mA. But then they also dropped to much less than that, under load. But still an impressive and very useful output with all the leds connected and shinning bright.

[ibpointless2]

Guys check this stuff out.

Ross Nanotechnology's NeverWet superhydrophobic spray-on coating - YouTube

Its something that's call super hydrophobic.

[NickZ]

Hot Dog On A Stick- table salt/glue cell- update

Ib2 and All:
Isn't it better to use no water, at all? As sooner or later, as you've mentioned, the water or any other liquids containing water will win out, and get their way. No water no cry...

BTW: The table salt cell I call the "Hot Dog on a Stick" cell, is putting out a nice voltage after all, and still dripping water. It actually works pretty well, if I can deal with the mess it makes. It would probably do even better if it was sealed in resin, once its had a chance to dry some more, if it ever will, I'll seal it. Instead of burning water, like some cells do, it may actually be making water.

Today's update: I am now able to light an led or two and maybe more with no known input voltage, just by a ground wire to an outside ground, and then to an AV plug, using my body as capacitance, or not even touching it, at all.
Thanks to Slider, and the "Doc" for mentioning it. I'm still hot on their trails, but I'm not using any test equipment at all, as I now have none left.
Just the AV plugs led, as my only guiding light...
Sorry for any cross-threading. I'm just too exited to hold it back, and must share this news, at least it's news to me...
I'm working on making the led(s) brighter still, as some guys have already been kind enough to show that there is a possibility of lighting many leds that way, or by using the Docs PSEC system. I'm still very intrigued by it all, and hope to further incorporate our cells for added benefit, sometime down the road.

[everyidea]

glass nanospheres = super hydrophobic

Guys check this stuff out.

Ross Nanotechnology's NeverWet superhydrophobic spray-on coating - YouTube

Its something that's call super hydrophobic.

You can make this yourself by using glass/silica nanospheres and 200% alcohol. Just mix the two together, spray or coat onto a surface and let the alcohol evaporate. But, does this do anything to the substrate conductivity?

It's worth testing...

rw

[altrez]

@all

You all are doing such great work. I wanted to share something I have been testing in my lab. It seems to work very well for keeping water out.

https://www.tryflexseal.com/ProductInfo

Hope someone might find it as usefull as I have for an outside air tight coating for cells

-Altrez

[Aaron]

@Chuck

Chuck,

Sent you pm.

Later,
Aaron