Bedini Earth Light

[jehdds]

Hi Guys,
New Design Cell type with minor Electrolyte modifications.
All thoughts welcome.
NOTE: My belief is that the high current noted is partially resultant from the initial galvanic shock of making the cell and the brief polarization insult, yet note the current PRE and POST polarization. There is a second stage of function on these cells that I am trying to understand. I simply wish to be able to rule out chemical irreversible reaction, be it galvanic or chemical. I will continue to be optimistic.
I claim nothing, rather only am trying to ascertain the complete picture of how these cells work on ALL stages of function. Secondary function as per ionic exchange and Piezo adjunctive? Perhaps. MUST NOTE: Kudos to Ron(NextGen1967) for his suggestion and the insight to add LiCl04 as minor constituent. Seems to help in the short run, but how long needs to be ascertained.
Inside Out ZnO Cell - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
and as always all thoughts welcome.
My next cell attempts will be high temp ceramics..... Hopefully they will work.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[Haggardhagi]

Gots to be water?

Howdy all,
Been tryin to keep up with all the pioneers present... Anyways,

@IB and All,
If water is our new enemy, or at least our ever present one, who says we should allow water in the making of these cells, vs. per say some liquid annhydrous electrolite. Maybe even one when combined in the heating and the melting of the polycrystalline structures that allows the water to evaporate/dissapate or possibly adding an annhydrous liquid as a supplement afterwords before the polycrystalline structure reforms...food for thought.

Look forward to building some of the more recent models of cells...still on the road, out trampin...soon come though... Thanks to all, lots of inspiration from everyone, keep up the righteous works!
Aloha
Haggardhagi

[kukulcangod]

electric flowers

My set up with6 leds is still giving out light but weaker ..3 button batteries last 30 days so it means it alrady surpassed regular efficiency the 3 button batteries were only powering 3 leds. Years ago...but the size of the salt battery is a factor not to be ignored ...question is after depletion ...would the salt battery recharge all by itself?

[ibpointless2]

Howdy all,
Been tryin to keep up with all the pioneers present... Anyways,

@IB and All,
If water is our new enemy, or at least our ever present one, who says we should allow water in the making of these cells, vs. per say some liquid annhydrous electrolite. Maybe even one when combined in the heating and the melting of the polycrystalline structures that allows the water to evaporate/dissapate or possibly adding an annhydrous liquid as a supplement afterwords before the polycrystalline structure reforms...food for thought.

Look forward to building some of the more recent models of cells...still on the road, out trampin...soon come though... Thanks to all, lots of inspiration from everyone, keep up the righteous works!
Aloha
Haggardhagi

The truth is you can use water or any liquid if you have the right electrodes. If you use gold and platinum with pure sulfuric acid you can have a cell that last for centuries. But these metals cost a lot. This could be why battery manufactures use zinc and carbon, they hold up better in a wet environment and the reason why the battery dies is the lack of power in the electrolyte. With me putting magnesium in distilled water i only prove that magnesium corrodes fast in water and that's all. find the right electrodes and you can have a cell that last for a long time.

[jehdds]

Hi Guys,
Here is my latest Video. Still waiting for You Tube to complete upload.
It is a 30 hour desiccant chamber test.
Zn0 CELL DESICCANT CHAMBER 30 HOURS - YouTube
This cell was bench dried for a day, PLUS placed in a chamber with Molecular sieve AND silica gel for 30 HOURS.
If any residual moisture could be pulled at ambient pressure, this would have done it. Note the voltage is NOT affected and the cell has NOT been Re- Imbibed. I think we are making progress. Much more to do but we will get there.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

Hi guys,
I just tried to upload again!! STILL WAITING.
HERE IS MY LATEST ATTEMPT LINK....
Zn0 MINI CELL Desiccant DWELL TIME 30 HOURS - YouTube
VERY BEST REGARDS,
JIM

[ibpointless2]

Hi Guys,
Here is my latest Video. Still waiting for You Tube to complete upload.
It is a 30 hour desiccant chamber test.
Zn0 CELL DESICCANT CHAMBER 30 HOURS - YouTube
This cell was bench dried for a day, PLUS placed in a chamber with Molecular sieve AND silica gel for 30 HOURS.
If any residual moisture could be pulled at ambient pressure, this would have done it. Note the voltage is NOT affected and the cell has NOT been Re- Imbibed. I think we are making progress. Much more to do but we will get there.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

I don't think using silica gel will be good enough. Sure they do absorb the water but they can still release some water back into the air. Plus lets not forget the other things that are in the air too. A good test is to put cells in a vacuum and see how long they last. I've ordered me this since it was the cheapest way to vacuum seal something. Amazon.com: FoodSaver FSFRSH0055 FreshSaver Handheld Vacuum-Sealing System: Kitchen & Dining

[jehdds]

I don't think using silica gel will be good enough. Sure they do absorb the water but they can still release some water back into the air. Plus lets not forget the other things that are in the air too. A good test is to put cells in a vacuum and see how long they last. I've ordered me this since it was the cheapest way to vacuum seal something. Amazon.com: FoodSaver FSFRSH0055 FreshSaver Handheld Vacuum-Sealing System: Kitchen & Dining

IB,
When this video clears, the volume of desiccant is enormous in comparison to the size and volume of my cell. I assure you, if any water could be removed, it has been so accomplished at standard pressure and temp over 30 hours. Remember this has been sealed in a small jar. I agree the ACID test would be complete vacuum and I have built a test cell to attempt this, but I need a pump to pull it down to levels that normal vacuum pumps would not touch. It is not possible that given the surface area of virgin desiccant that my cells or the desiccant itself is releasing moisture back. I have used this mix to dry flooded cell phones etc. The same mix I have used to ensure desiccated TiO2 for devices I have designed to ensure desiccated Ti02. The only way to ensure vacuum to the the extent to ensure ALL off gassing, is to use a HIGH vacuum pump akin necessary for Electron Microscopy. This is a level of vacuum an order of magnitude greater than kitchen sealing. So, to be sure, I have shown a definitive loss in weight due to water removal. This in enough is a better indication of moisture removal than coating with paint. I would welcome you to take 10 times the mass of your cell and desiccate with silica gel and molecular sieve BEFORE PAINTING. Weigh it PRE and POST exposure to the silica gel. That will tell you how much water is imbibed without your knowing. Remember, we are on the same path, I am simply trying to rule our galvanic action. 30 hours in the environment that I have placed this cell would suck any AVAILABLE water out. So, in essence, we may be going in the correct direction. I appreciate your skepticism, and in no way am put off by it. I simply would welcome your attempts to test your cells to the same extent.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

IB,
When this video clears, the volume of desiccant is enormous in comparison to the size and volume of my cell. I assure you, if any water could be removed, it has been so accomplished at standard pressure and temp over 30 hours. Remember this has been sealed in a small jar. I agree the ACID test would be complete vacuum and I have built a test cell to attempt this, but I need a pump to pull it down to levels that normal vacuum pumps would not touch. It is not possible that given the surface area of virgin desiccant that my cells or the desiccant itself is releasing moisture back. I have used this mix to dry flooded cell phones etc. The same mix I have used to ensure desiccated TiO2 for devices I have designed to ensure desiccated Ti02. The only way to ensure vacuum to the the extent to ensure ALL off gassing, is to use a HIGH vacuum pump akin necessary for Electron Microscopy. This is a level of vacuum an order of magnitude greater than kitchen sealing. So, to be sure, I have shown a definitive loss in weight due to water removal. This in enough is a better indication of moisture removal than coating with paint. I would welcome you to take 10 times the mass of your cell and desiccate with silica gel and molecular sieve BEFORE PAINTING. Weigh it PRE and POST exposure to the silica gel. That will tell you how much water is imbibed without your knowing. Remember, we are on the same path, I am simply trying to rule our galvanic action. 30 hours in the environment that I have placed this cell would suck any AVAILABLE water out. So, in essence, we may be going in the correct direction. I appreciate your skepticism, and in no way am put off by it. I simply would welcome your attempts to test your cells to the same extent.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

Jim the video never loaded?

I know for every 5 grams of Elmer's glue all used 3 grams is water, this is how I test my cell for water.

If a food vacuum sealer is good enough for your food then its good enough for this simple experiment. You must realize the same thing that kills food is the same thing that kills metals, oxidation. The reason why steel rust is the same reason why apples turn brown. The vacuum sealer removes the water and oxygen to expend the life of food. Sure its not a perfect vacuum, but it is good enough for the food you eat.

I guess like you mention the best way to test to see if water is in the cell is to weigh it. I know for 5 grams of glue it has 3 grams of water, the way i know this is by putting 5 grams of glue on paper and letting it dry for 2 weeks. I then use this ratio to determine when the cells are dry, once this ratio is met then I spray paint them.

But if you want the most definite test, and the most harsh test to see if your cell contains water you can put it in the oven for 30 minutes on 400 degrees F. Test the cell right when it comes out of the oven and see if it still has voltage. I have tried this but Elmer's glue gets destroyed at those high temps, i will redo this test without the glue. This is a harsh test and dangerous too.

[NickZ]

@ Jim and All:
Thank you for your videos, very nice results. I'm curious as the the higher current levels being produce in your cells, even before you polarized it (300+mA?). Have you tried putting a load on it to see what it does? As it is really the running voltages and current levels that are important.
We usually refer to the positive center element (Carbon) as the anode, and the negative (Mg) as the cathode. You seam to be using the terms backwards.
I would suggest sealing your cells with something like resin or e-poxy. As an open salt electrolyte cell will absorb water like a sponge and become a galvanic cell sooner or later. At least that is what I think... So, maybe sealing it right after a low temp several hour baking in the oven, will keep it working the same as when it was first made.
You are doing an outstanding job with this... thanks for sharing.
NickZ

[jehdds]

@ Jim and All:
Thank you for your videos, very nice results. I'm curious as the the higher current levels being produce in your cells, even before you polarized it (300+mA?). Have you tried putting a load on it to see what it does? As it is really the running voltages and current levels that are important.
We usually refer to the positive center element (Carbon) as the anode, and the negative (Mg) as the cathode. You seam to be using the terms backwards.
I would suggest sealing your cells with something like resin or e-poxy. As an open salt electrolyte cell will absorb water like a sponge and become a galvanic cell sooner or later. At least that is what I think... So, maybe sealing it right after a low temp several hour baking in the oven, will keep it working the same as when it was first made.
You are doing an outstanding job with this... thanks for sharing.
NickZ

Hi Nick,
I immediately loaded the cell over 36 hours ago as I showed on the videos.
I will be running it as long as it will go. I have made a few hermetically sealed cells and they too work but before comitting to seal as best, more complete understanding of the true operation of these cells need to be made.
Sorry about the anode issue. Remember I am a tooth carpenter! Carryover from the concept of using magnesium as a sacrificial species for water tanks and boat motors etc.
Heat perhaps should not be part of the equation for testing for the removal of water.
Heat alters things that we may not want to alter, like IB having the PVA matrix of the Elmer's glue being hosed. Also may provide compounding variables in electrical production depending upon what crystal material we use.
Thank you for the encouragement and correction.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[NickZ]

Jim:
It is possible that heat (400 degrees) oven drying can have a negative effect, but it would really remove any and all water. Maybe do a test on a cell that you don't care too much about, but using low heat (150 degrees or so).
If the cells are not sealed they will not hold up for long, as salts will saturate with water, if they can.
So, if you have had the cell under load for days, can you let us know what is the running voltage and current levels are, that you are seeing now.
I'm very interested in your results.
Thanks again,
Nick

[jehdds]

Guys,
As has been pointed out to me by others,
Ions and their function can be electrolytic or gaseous as distinct species.
In essence we are trying to establish which is functioning in these cells right?
This is where deep vacuum tests can become interesting....
Just food for thought.
Very best regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

So I took my own advice and tried putting a cell in the oven and cooking the water out of it. But instead of using a oven i used a blowtorch since it gives a more direct and higher temperature than a oven would. I boiled all the water out and kept the torch on it till the material started to burn. I checked voltage and it was higher than normal showing that these cells are affected by heat. To be sure I put the blow torch on the cell one more time and still got the same results. At these temperatures Its hard for water to exist, so the leads me to think my cells are not using water.

I'm calling it the blowtorch cell, its like the crystal glue cell but it lacks glue. The blow torch cell uses Epsom salt and salt substitute with copper and magnesium electrodes.

I will be uploading a video of the new cell and me cooking it with a blowtorch.

[ibpointless2]

Here is the video of me taking a blowtorch to a cell to remove the water from it.

Blowtorch crystal cell - proving the cell is not galvanic - YouTube