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[jehdds]

Here is the video of me taking a blowtorch to a cell to remove the water from it.

Blowtorch crystal cell - proving the cell is not galvanic - YouTube

IB,
Do you suppose the cinder block is anhydrous as well?
When you scraped it off the block, was the salt melted into the block?
Another way to test this would be to do same experiment on a ceramic plate that has less porous structure. Combustion vs vacuum.
One has thermal change with temp as a compounding variable.
Great demo as to not catch the Mg on fire!
Do not add ferric oxide and aluminum ok?
Just kidding
Very best regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

IB,
Do you suppose the cinder block is anhydrous as well?
When you scraped it off the block, was the salt melted into the block?
Another way to test this would be to do same experiment on a ceramic plate that has less porous structure. Combustion vs vacuum.
One has thermal change with temp as a compounding variable.
Great demo as to not catch the Mg on fire!
Do not add ferric oxide and aluminum ok?
Just kidding
Very best regards,
Jim

yea it was a little dangerous experiment. I only used the cinder block because it wasn't conductive, i was going to use aluminum foil. The cell did come off pretty easy. If cinder blocks had water in them then they would be used for house foundations. A cinder block is just a man made rock.

[NextGen1967]

@ Jim and All:
Thank you for your videos, very nice results. <...>
We usually refer to the positive center element (Carbon) as the anode, and the negative (Mg) as the cathode. You seam to be using the terms backwards.
<...>
You are doing an outstanding job with this... thanks for sharing.
NickZ

@NickZ

I think the naming of Anode and Cathode is correct. The cell is an energy delivery type, and in such case, negative (Mg) electrode is called the Anode.

If the cell would *receive* energy (charging), then the negative (Mg) electrode becomes the Cathode.

Yes, I think Jim is making great cells... Will see how his new cell under load holds up.

--
Ron.

[ibpointless2]

Taking a blow torch to a cell was not good enough for some and it was suggested to bake the cell in the oven. So I took Epsom salt and Salt substitute with copper and magnesium electrodes and put it the oven for 30 minutes at 400 degrees F. I did get a higher increase in voltage just like the blowtorch cells but the voltage is not the same as the blowtorch cell. The amps were much lower too. Don't know if the blowtorch cell had such a sudden increase in temp and it jump in power or what. I think the cell that was cooked in the oven was a fair test to see if water is trapped in the cell. About 1.520 volts @ 50 micro-amps is what I got from a cell that was in the oven for 30 minutes being cooked at 400 degrees F. These results are not that bad, this high heat and long time should have killed the cell.

I will be uploading a video soon on the oven dried cell.

[NickZ]

Then I guess that the rest of us must have it wrong???

[NickZ]

NextGen1967, and All:
Since this is really a misunderstanding of the term cathode and anode, please look further down the page in Wikipedia under "OTHER ANODES AND CATHODES"- that have Polarity, like diodes, electrolytic capacitors, semiconductors, as well as our cells.

Electrode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ibpointless2]

Crystal cell cooked in over for 30 minutes @ 400 degrees F

Crystal Cell In oven to remove Water - YouTube

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is another interesting thing that may be worth exploring further.
Carbon Graphite burnished onto MgO oxide layer BEFORE construction of cell.
Carbon Graphite on MgO vs MgO alone - YouTube

PS:
IB, How much lower is the current as compared to your normal stove top cell?
Does the voltage or current change if you increase or decrease the surface area of the exposed aluminum?

Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

NextGen1967, and All:
Since this is really a misunderstanding of the term cathode and anode, please look further down the page in Wikipedia under "OTHER ANODES AND CATHODES"- that have Polarity, like diodes, electrolytic capacitors, semiconductors, as well as our cells.

Electrode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nick,
Do you see the Zn0 Cell as a Primary or Secondary cell?
I think Ron is Correct. Any EE like to chime in? JB? Chuck?
Bueller.....Bueller ?

Very Best Regards,
Jim

[NextGen1967]

Taking a blow torch to a cell was not good enough for some and it was suggested to bake the cell in the oven. So I took Epsom salt and Salt substitute with copper and magnesium electrodes and put it the oven for 30 minutes at 400 degrees F. I did get a higher increase in voltage just like the blowtorch cells but the voltage is not the same as the blowtorch cell. The amps were much lower too. Don't know if the blowtorch cell had such a sudden increase in temp and it jump in power or what. I think the cell that was cooked in the oven was a fair test to see if water is trapped in the cell. About 1.520 volts @ 50 micro-amps is what I got from a cell that was in the oven for 30 minutes being cooked at 400 degrees F. These results are not that bad, this high heat and long time should have killed the cell.

I will be uploading a video soon on the oven dried cell.

@IB

Thanks for doing the test with the burner versus the oven... There is a GREAT difference in the results, and the main factor influenced here is energy output.

With the burner, you had some 1,65v@1.75mA, which translates in a *theoretical* 2.88mW of energy output. However, the oven cell had some 1.52v@0.055mA(55uA), which translates in a *theoretical* 0.084mW of energy output.

The oven cell delivers some 34 times less energy then the burner one... Typical cause here is that the oven cell has a very high impedance compared to the burner cell, and thus is not able to deliver as much as energy as the burner cell.

I don't know what you did with the cell afterwards, but if you had left it lay around for a few hours, you likely would measure an increase in amps.

However, when you have coated it with glue at that point, most of the water that is contained in the glue itself would be 'suck up' by the dehydrated cell, and thus its water contents increase while the glue is hardening and creates a 'dampening' barrier between the cell and the outside environment, e.g. a slow transfer of moisture transfer... Meaning the water that is INSIDE the cell (due to the glue/or subtracted from the air) keeps contained inside the cell, and would only very slowly be able to 'escape' the cell, and moisture from outside the cell is slowly able to go into the cell. (Note that elmers glue is not waterproof).

I make NO statements here however if electrodes are eaten away or not, and whether water or another fluid inside the cell is per definition a bad idea.

@Nick:

I see the Zn0 Cell as a Primary or Secondary cell. (E.G an battery or rechargeable cell).

--
Ron.

[NickZ]

Guys:
If we compare these cell with regulars galvanic batteries (which they are not), then the confusion spreads. As these are not primary or secondary galvanic, or chemical cells. Like regular batteries that charge and discharge.
But are similar in some ways.
If you put your meter on the cells you'll find which is the positive pole, and which is the negative one. Some of my cells actually conduct voltage both ways on my meter, but will only light an led one way.
But, normally carbon or copper is known as the positive or anode, and the aluminum or magnesium as the cathode. With the current coming in from the ambient to the aluminum cathode, and going out through the positive copper, or carbon anode. That's the way I see it, but I really don't know. It's also possible that that is more than one polarity or combination that works.

[LetsReplicate]

If you put your meter on the cells you'll find which is the positive pole, and which is the negative one. Some of my cells actually conduct voltage both ways on my meter, but will only light an led one way.

Does that mean you agree with me that this is a diode? That is the very definition of rectification.

It's not "strange" just because it's a diode with a battery across it; and it's not "non-galvanic" just because all the water is gone. It is the galvanic potential that makes these cells work even if you fully stop the current flow.

It's better not to argue of "cathode" Vs. "anode", the terms have always been confusing because of "conventional current" Vs. "electron flow".

(Note that elmers glue is not waterproof)

Very true: the Elmer's glue I used was the waterproof wood-glue kind and all it did was harden in the top 1/4" in and the rest stayed liquid. It has been 2 months since I stated that "just glue" test and the aluminum lead is almost destroyed already.

[ibpointless2]

Very true: the Elmer's glue I used was the waterproof wood-glue kind and all it did was harden in the top 1/4" in and the rest stayed liquid. It has been 2 months since I stated that "just glue" test and the aluminum lead is almost destroyed already.

I'm surprised that someone actually made the "just glue" cell. The only reason why the glue would dry on top and not the rest would be because you may have put it in a cup like object. Think of it like this, a bucket full of water has a harder time drying then a puddle spread out on the floor. This is why I use notebook paper and spread the glue out on that. The vary reason why glue dries is because the water is evaporating from it, if you don't allow it to evaporate than the glue never dries.

I also sate in many of my videos to use "Elmer's Glue all" and not the wood glue, they're two very different glues.

@all

One thing i have come to realize is the debate on whether or not Water has anything to do with why the cell works will never end. I have made countless videos and I feel like I'm only spinning my wheels and not going anywhere.

I've had people tell me that I'm getting water from the glue, paper, salts, and air.

I've made a "just glue" cell that produce little to no volts.
I've made a "just glue and Epsom salt" cell that produce little to no volts.
I've made a "just glue and Salt substitute" cell that produce little to no volts.
I've made a "sticking two metals to dry paper" cell that produce little to no volts.
I've made a "sticking electrodes in Epsom salt" cell that produce little to no volts.
I've made a "sticking electrodes in Salt substitute" cell that produce little to no volts.
I've made a "cooking on the stove with no water added at all" cell that produce good power that runs Lidmotors penny oscillator.
I've made a "lite it on fire with a blowtorch" cell that produce over normal power.
I've made a "cook in the oven cell till all water is gone and make the house smell funny" cell that produce normal voltages when removed from the oven.
I'm even sealing the cells in a air free and water free vacuum sealed container while powering a LCD clock that's been running for 2 months now and is still above 1.400 volts.

I've shown that if water was at play than most importantly the "just glue and Epsom salt" cell would still be working, but it doesn't its the worst cell. If water was at play than the oven cell would be dead when I take it out of the oven. If water was at play than the cells in the vacuum would be dying due to lack of water molecules in the air, but they don't they thrive. I don't know how else to prove these cells.

[jehdds]

If water was at play than the cells in the vacuum would be dying due to lack of water molecules in the air, but they don't they thrive. I don't know how else to prove these cells.

IB,
With all due respect, your vacuum test is not remotely sufficient to make the statement it has removed all water Sorry. If this were the case, these preservative type food vacuum would desiccate ALL food. They are designed in essence to help remove the acceleration of oxidization by removing most air. Again the nature of the vacuum necessary to determine the elimination of water would be more akin to the vacuum necessary to sputter coat for scanning electron microscopy etc. Time under DEEP vacuum with observed pressure noting no changes thus No outgassing of volatiles. The question is why are you so convinced that if water IS trapped in the lattice that it is bad? Key is if it is being trapped and used for ion shuttle or if it is being used to disassemble the metallic electrode or if it is being consumed in a irreversible chemical reaction. It may be more edifying to determine those questions first. No one yet has remotely come close to showing that there is NO water being trapped by the crystalline lattice, perhaps save JB on his ceramic glass yet, one cannot discount the possible surface molecules of ambient water moisture that may interact at the atomic level at the junction of that said glass and the metal electrode. Again, unless deep vacuum, or non aqueous electrolytic substitute that is by engineering ANHYDROUS we cannot rule our water easily. I am trying to obtain such material. All with time.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

I not too familiar with analog amp meters but I've just bought one, its a Micro-amp meter that goes to 200 micro-amps. I've hooked it up to one of my cells, it gives a lower reading than the digital amp meter does. The analog one has a tick mark for 5 micro-amps and the needle was under that at about 3 micro-amps. I left it connected for 20 minutes and now its gone over the 5 micro-amp tick mark and it looks like its about to push 7 micro-amps. Is this normal for a amp meter? The analog amp meter has no battery.