Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

@Lidmotor and B_rads and others that Made the Glue, Epsom salt, and Salt substitute cells.

If anyone made the Elmer's glue, Epsom salt, and salt substitute cells i was wondering if your cells are still alive. Are they close to the original voltage of 1.3v to 1.4v? I'm just curious.

Thanks!

[b_rads]

Cell Update

@Lidmotor and B_rads and others that Made the Glue, Epsom salt, and Salt substitute cells.

If anyone made the Elmer's glue, Epsom salt, and salt substitute cells i was wondering if your cells are still alive. Are they close to the original voltage of 1.3v to 1.4v? I'm just curious.

Thanks!

@Ibpointless2:

I have two cells that have been connected to oscillators since they were made. The glue cells sit shorted out and only occasionally do I connect them to a circuit. All my glue cells are completely encased in plastic and I do not think it would be fair to compare them to yours. I suspect that the moisture content is probably higher than yours. They will still power the oscillators, but they are getting shorter in duration. Using a magnifying glass, I can see some very tiny voids developing in the mix. They do still bounce back after sitting for a while and I suspect mine are showing signs of galvanic consumption.

My “Stove Top” cell is connected to a replication of Lidmotor’s Steel Wire Pancake Coil Joule Thief and has been since it was constructed. This cell was also encased in plastic and the only thing different from yours is this cell has a dusting of aluminum and antimony filings added to the mix. This cell is still going strong and I cannot detect any consumption of metals or mix yet even though it is over 2 months old.

The other cell that has been connected since it was built is my 9 penny cell made with the mix that jehdds developed a while back. This cell is connected to a “Penny Blocking Oscillator” and has been quite a curious cell indeed. This cell is not encased like so many of the others I replicated. What makes this cell fun is that I can add a couple drops of 3% H2O2 (medicinal hydrogen peroxide) every 10 to 14 days and run the LED bright with no visible blinking. So far I have not seen any consumption of metals or mix on this one either although I am pretty sure this is galvanic and will eventually fail.

I apologize for not responding sooner. I have stepped away from the bench to enjoy family and the holidays and will resume shortly after the New Year.

Happy Holidays Everyone,
Brad S

[Lidmotor]

Happy Holidays All

@All
I have been busy with other things but I have been following along with what is going on here. My cells have been interesting to watch. Unfortunately I can't make a conclusion as to why they work. Some of them are just simple galvanic cells though and just go dormant when they dry out. Others (like the IB's "stove top") just go on and on and on. Penny No.1 is still running on the original stove top cell that was hooked up back in August. The power is way down to about 1/2 a volt and a few micro amps but Penny just keeps on blinking.
Actually my old cement batteries are all still alive also and one is running an LCD clock in my kitchen. The frustrating thing about all of this is that I don't really understand why these cells work. My brain gets lost in a valence cloud fog.

Lidmotor

[ibpointless2]

Thank You Lidmotor and B_rads for the responses!



The last cell I made was a 5 foot by 1/2 inch wide copper tube that is wrapped with Epsom salt and salt substitute with magnesium ribbon. I only made this long cell to see what would happen and Its a very interesting cell.

The cell I made before this cell was a 6 inch by 1/2 copper tube with the same specs and its power was 1.494V 30uA. Now to compare that to the 5 foot cell its at 1.404 volts at over 1mA, and the crazy part is that when a meter is connected to it the amps keep going up to over 1.5mA. This is a big cell but a very unique acting one. Its got lower than normal voltage but the amps go up when connected to a load, as if its self adjusting.

also I've stated before its best to keep a capacitor in parallel with these cells, and it really does. The on cell that is at 1.494 volts when connected a capacitor and left to charge over night will be up to 1.523 volts by the morning, its as if the capacitor and the cell bounce power off each other.


Happy Holidays!

[NickZ]

Ib2 and All:
If you make several coils on the same 1/2" copper tube, each coil can be connected in series with the next one, and the output will be several volts, but with the same mA. 8 such coils on a single copper tube will produce about 12 volts. This will also work with aluminum wire, although the voltage is lower, so a couple more coils can be added to compensate for the lower voltage levels. These can be made using a dry paper towel as the electrolyte that has been soaked with Epsom/salt sub and let dry out, then the cell can be sealed with a layer of resin.
All my quartz/carbon cells are still working well but with voltages of about 3/4 volt or so, no mA. These are totally non galvanic cells, as they contain no water and no salts, and just plain wood carbon and carbon rods in the aluminum capacitor can. Nothing else. They would have higher voltages if I had used magnesium instead of the aluminum capacitor can, but the caps were free. My best carbon cell has 1.2 volts 6 mA.
All my cement cells are still working after almost a year. The one using a big capacitor can still has 1.2 volts and 20mA. (down from 1.4 v, and 50 mA when new).

The problem with all these cells is their high impedance, similar to the cement cells. And it seams like any voltages or current levels above the electronegative ratings will force the cells to self destruct in time.
Still looking for that illusive "perfect cell". A dry cell made using a carbon rod, magnesium container can, with Epsom, Salt Substitute as the electrolyte, all totally sealed, may work well.
All my cells together don't have the current of just one rechargeable AA with 2700mA, that can be kept charged by a tiny solar panel. Without current only leds will work or light, and at low or dimmer levels. A single led running with normal AA battery current levels on an oscillator will light my whole living room in my house. So, current is also important.

[kcarring]

A single led running with normal AA battery current levels on an oscillator will light my whole living room in my house. So, current is also important.

What do you mean by that Nick? The statement seems rather minimalistic.. one LED lighting a whole room. I'm not sure what you mean / or what you're getting at, there.
Here is an additional thought, and please don't take this as negative, but...

The majority of all of our experiment cells, have been built with charts. The charts show galvanic performance. So, in trying to avoid making a galvanic cell, we set out providing the perfect and most robust galvanic combinations of dissimilar metals. And then try to counter with avoiding water, which is, nearly impossible. We choose what we we choose... for voltage... the reason is simple; but does it not completely contradict our initial goal? If you pop rivet aluminum into stainless, you're going to have corrosion, that is, unless you are in outerspace. No added water needed.

Cooking cells on a hotplate, or an oven.. guys.. it's a joke. Any chemist would laugh, basically. Doing so in a vacuum is still not perfect. In school we learned about explosion bonding creating a covalent (metallurgical) bond between the dissimilar metals. There is no GALVANIC reaction because the metals behave as one. Some adaption to this technique involving a third crystalline component may reveal what we are looking for.

While I continue playing with it too... I'm beginning to see very weak, crystallized electrolytic batteries. Of course they last a long time, and their voltage will rise, dip as molecular composition changes in a very very slowed, but continuing corrosion process, all the while, only asked to provide microamps.

I truly believe if a power crystal is to be created it has to be RIGHT at the molecular level, not a "recipe"
But I'll keep playing with it, cause it is interesting, nonetheless.

[NickZ]

A single led when given enough current to work with, as from an AA battery, will do quite a good job at lighting up a room (relatively), as compared to the light that at least my cells will produce from the same led.
I'm a bit disappointed in any long term usable output being obtained from these cells, as high impedance is not an easy issue to resolve from two different metal type cells.
It does not mean that I'm giving up on this, but, would really like to find something that works to a usable degree. Non galvanic cells just don't have the output capabilities, and galvanic cells self destruct. A long lasting high output non galvanic cell with perpetual output has not yet been found.
Or has it?
Please excuse my frustration... I think that you know what I mean...

[ibpointless2]

What do you mean by that Nick? The statement seems rather minimalistic.. one LED lighting a whole room. I'm not sure what you mean / or what you're getting at, there.
Here is an additional thought, and please don't take this as negative, but...

The majority of all of our experiment cells, have been built with charts. The charts show galvanic performance. So, in trying to avoid making a galvanic cell, we set out providing the perfect and most robust galvanic combinations of dissimilar metals. And then try to counter with avoiding water, which is, nearly impossible. We choose what we we choose... for voltage... the reason is simple; but does it not completely contradict our initial goal? If you pop rivet aluminum into stainless, you're going to have corrosion, that is, unless you are in outerspace. No added water needed.

Cooking cells on a hotplate, or an oven.. guys.. it's a joke. Any chemist would laugh, basically. Doing so in a vacuum is still not perfect. In school we learned about explosion bonding creating a covalent (metallurgical) bond between the dissimilar metals. There is no GALVANIC reaction because the metals behave as one. Some adaption to this technique involving a third crystalline component may reveal what we are looking for.

While I continue playing with it too... I'm beginning to see very weak, crystallized electrolytic batteries. Of course they last a long time, and their voltage will rise, dip as molecular composition changes in a very very slowed, but continuing corrosion process, all the while, only asked to provide microamps.

I truly believe if a power crystal is to be created it has to be RIGHT at the molecular level, not a "recipe"
But I'll keep playing with it, cause it is interesting, nonetheless.

I think Lidmotor said it the best.... "Unfortunately I can't make a conclusion as to why they work. Some of them are just simple galvanic cells though and just go dormant when they dry out. Others (like the IB's "stove top") just go on and on and on. "


I don't how or why these cells work, it could be a galvanic reaction I don't know. But what I do know after making hundreds of cells I've found like Lidmotor said.... "Some of them are just simple galvanic cells though and just go dormant when they dry out". There has been only two types of cells i've made (Stove top cell and Crystal glue cell) that when they dry they don't stop producing power. All the other cells i've made (hundreds) have died because they dry out, but for some odd reason the stove top cell and crystal glue cell when dry they keep on going and going. This to me is the biggest question and not whether or not they're galvanic.


When you stated that "Cooking cells on a hotplate, or an oven.. guys.. it's a joke" made me bust out laughing. I was the first person to not use water, ever, in a cell to get it to work or to keep it going and to this very day it powers Lidmotor's penny oscillator. Why I find this funny is that Bedini was praised for his cells that he clearly states that they need water in-order to run, and this clearly makes them galvanic but no one questions that. But if i make a cell that never needs water i get ridiculed, it makes no sense.

At least i can say i tried.

There are better cells out their, even better than what I've shown here on this forum.

[kcarring]

[QUOTE=ibpointless2;171899]I think Lidmotor said it the best.... "Unfortunately I can't make a conclusion as to why they work. Some of them are just simple galvanic cells though and just go dormant when they dry out. Others (like the IB's "stove top") just go on and on and on. "


I don't mean to imply that anyone's work "is a joke", I merely mean that, come on... in grade 10 science you learn to make crystals and you are taught that heat is not the way to go... and then in college I learned that again, and better methods... as your work seems to have shown...

I got 15 cells here. And I scratch my head, and say. hold... what the f%$! am I doing, differently, than has ever proven to be illustrated as a sacrificial anode. There are entire industries based on doing just this to PROMOTE the galvanic reaction and sacrifice aluminum, instead of some important part. Or, magnesium...

I merely am trying to state...

perhaps despite low voltage we should be getting AWAY from the most sacrificial dissimilar metals, build the voltage up through series...

and

get away from the solutions period.

work with a medium, and as IB showed... compression.

A medium that can be tacked to both metals and sit in the metal.
Tack it with HHO
use an explosion.

I don't know exactly, obviously, but it seems to me...
we're just making silly underpowered electrolytic dry crystal batteries that will take a year or two or even three to disprove themselves.

The other day I found a tiny lcd calculator.

It still runs.

The battery is over 10 years old.

What are we doing
:P LOL

cheers and merry christmas!!!!!
*** no negativity ** just sayin...

[NickZ]

kcarring:
Thank you for that comment about the electronegative difference in metals working against us, I agree, nobody has put it quite that way.
There is hope in finding a cell that will work in a non galvanic way, without needing water (or air present). The two different metals can also produce an electrical potential, with hardly no current, and be useful in a low voltage way. That is what I'm working on, and learning about, and is also where the Av plugs come in. As well as in a possible combination with Dr. Stifflers type of PSEC circuits. Trying to adapt those circuits to my cells as their external power source of 12 volts, or so, together with an earth ground.
Last night we had a black-out for a few hours here. That is where the single led on a AA powered oscillator lighting up my living room thought came from, As it was, enough to get around on, and even lighting out into my yard.
Just answering, so you don't think I'm nuts, about that comment I made before about the single led light up a room.

[jehdds]

[QUOTE=kcarring;171891

Cooking cells on a hotplate, or an oven.. guys.. it's a joke. Any chemist would laugh, basically.
While I continue playing with it too... I'm beginning to see very weak, crystallized electrolytic batteries. Of course they last a long time, and their voltage will rise, dip as molecular composition changes in a very very slowed, but continuing corrosion process, all the while, only asked to provide microamps.
I truly believe if a power crystal is to be created it has to be RIGHT at the molecular level, not a "recipe"
[/QUOTE]

Dear kcarring,
Why is heating the components a Joke? I distinctly remember many experiments in chemistry lab using heat. Please expound on your meaning of Joke.

Is it not possible to achieve molecular rearrangement and imposition of stress to lattice with input of thermal energy? After all the explosive alloy technique is FAR from ambient correct?
COEFFICIENT OF THERMAL EXPANSION differentials may play a part in taking advantage of the piezo effect.
Is there a better way to assemble a variety of salts to impart an intrinsic stress to the lattice besides heating that we can do readily aside from placing all in solution? Please let us know if you have any suggestions that would help this quest, meant with all sincerity and intrigue.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
PS: I am working on graphite/graphite cells that cannot be galvanic.
What do you suppose the normal resting state voltage should be with a cell that has both electrode the same non metallic element, lets say after sitting on the bench for a week? What would you say the cell would bounce back to after depleting the charge? Why does that occur?
Please let me know what chart to reference to perhaps save me from worthless experiments.

[NickZ]

Ib and All:
It may be possible that your two types of before mentioned cells are the exception to the rule, the galvanic rule, and prove that there is more to it, than just galvanics.
I also feel that my wood carbon/quartz cells are non galvanic and are another example of potential only type cells without current, or hardly any current present. Yet both your glue or stove top cells as well as these cells work, and can be placed in series to obtain the needed voltage.
But they work just like a low farad electrolytic capacitor holding a fluffy charge. Because of that, higher voltages must be used to compensate for the voltage drop, as their impedance under a load will bring their voltage levels down to 1/3 or so of the what their starting voltages were. So, many cells placed in series may be the way to go, like 10 volts of series connected cells, that will to run at 3.5 volts, under load. But, even then, having low impedance cells is still an important issue.
NickZ

[kcarring]

Crystals that grow at higher temperature are frequently paired up or show static disorder.

The nucleation that precedes crystallization is what you want to avoid, and a small seed that grows, slowly into a well formed crystal will yield the most natural structure.

Think of the salt caves and their crystals. There are some, that have taken millions of years to form under certain conditions.

If it were as simple as mixing a bunch of salt "and throwing it on the fire" ... how would those caves look. Blobby. Irregular, less translucent perhaps, and under-developed. What characteristics would those crystals bear? Dissimilar or similar to that which the defined crystal might have? How would the lattice behave electronically?

I don't mean to discredit any of those that have spent a lot of time researching this. It's like the SSG, or John H's videos. They are starting points, something to get you going, get you started. Don't expect everything to be revealed that researcher has found, or even demonstrated. Even John H. said, some of my best crystals are the smallest ones... So, from that, I personally derive: we are not merely talking surface area here. John B. is an expert in doping, don't expect him to publicize every technique, or nuance of his "better" processes.

I am just throwing ideas out there, rudiment to chemistry to try to debate some new directions. That's all!

[NickZ]

jehdds and kcarring:
The electronegative chart is not based on a galvanic reaction it is the potential difference between the two metals. And carbon is also part of the chart. This chart represent the atoms ability to attract electrons to itself. Or so they say.
The reason that two carbon electrodes or two aluminum electrodes will also conduct a relatively smaller amount of current, is due to the field effect surrounding them both. This voltage can also be raised somewhat by having the two similar electrodes be of different sizes. Two boats drifting out at sea can also collide into each other, due to the same field effects, which is external to both objects.

[jehdds]

jehdds and kcarring:
The electronegative chart is not based on a galvanic reaction it is the potential difference between the two metals. And carbon is also part of the chart. This chart represent the atoms ability to attract electrons to itself. Or so they say.
The reason that two carbon electrodes or two aluminum electrodes will also conduct a relatively smaller amount of current, is due to the field effect surrounding them both. This voltage can also be raised somewhat by having the two similar electrodes be of different sizes. Two boats drifting out at sea can also collide into each other, due to the same field effects, which is external to both objects.

Nick,
What if BOTH are identical in size?
Where can we glean what current we should see given two identical electrodes?
Thanks for the heads up and what is the potential difference between two identical pieces of Graphite?
Very Best Regards,
Jim