Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

The problem was corrosion due to the chlorine, it broke the aluminum wire in all of the 20 or so test cells. The copper wire also developed green corrosion where it left the cell. Trust me when I say that is what happened in the 22gauge wire cells.

That is why I opted for a cell with sturdier metal leads for test cells.



Alum is two metals, usually potassium and aluminum. It's possible that he is using Soda alum, ammonium alum or plain aluminum sulfate but if he did he should have specified.



There are many more oxidizing agents than just water, you could have done that test using a pure alcohol and the leads would degrade just as fast. Chlorine is a powerful oxidizer: potassium chloride in the water would corrode the magnesium extremely fast.

The repeated water evaporation helps build the crystal structure, something that does not happen in the glue cells.


Combustion means it eats oxygen when heated. Odds are there isn't very much of it in the mix.

Placing ground activated carbon in the cell should be just as effective, especially since it absorbs lose chlorine that will be degrading the metals, even if you can't see the corrosion because it is locked inside the cell.

You must use Morton's salt substitute, it has something in it besides the chloride that makes the cells do what they do. You must use the Morton's to fully understand what I'm saying, trust me.

The glue acts to protect the cell inner metals from the air and it works well when you have the right ingredients. I have built the "water evaporating" cells like John makes and others have made. I have built a true literal crystal battery where its only a crystal layer around the electrodes shown here. Polycrystalline Literal Crystal Battery - YouTube
There's a reason why I don't make these cells anymore and its mostly to do with the water needed to grow the crystal. I could never use a magnesium electrode because magnesium would fizz right away when place in the water mix. The fizzing and bubbling of magnesium in water is not it developing a oxide layer but instead its releasing gasses and corroding away.

I do the things I do for a reason. I use Notebook paper instead of copper cup or a cup like container because notebook paper doesn't trap water like a cup would. The paper wicks away the excess water and allows the cell to dry faster. I use the glue because it protects the inner metals from the outside air. I use Thin Magnesium ribbon and small 18 gauge copper wire because they will show corrosion faster than a bigger versions of them and when done right the glue cell doesn't show corrosion on the inside of the metals. I coat the cells with plastic or paint to protect it from the air and any water. Once my cells are made they don't need any water, ever, to run so that is why I coat them. The use of no needed water and coating them makes the cells electrodes last longer.

I could make my cells just like Bedini's Alum battery, Where I use a copper bowl and a huge piece of Magnesium that is separated by Epsom salt and salt substitute and water mix. I have done this but the thing is when the salts dry out I still have voltage but to bring amps back I can do what they do and add a drop of water and then i'm back to using water as the median of transport. The good news is that I would be using huge electrodes that won't corrode as quick as smaller electrodes. Bedini says to use the big magnesium electrode because its more pure than magnesium ribbon. Its not that the magnesium ribbon is less pure (it 99.98% pure) it just that the bigger magnesium bedini uses is just bigger so it takes longer to see any side effects of corrosion.

[NickZ]

@ Plengo and All:
Yes, there may also be more to All cells than just a galvanic reaction, due to the reasons I've already mentioned. My cells need no water, at all. They are the proof that there is a non galvanic source of power, also.
Ib2 has also shown his two different wire salt crystal/glue cell, needing no additional water, and still working for quite a while. I take that as another proof of concept. We have both been working towards that goal, and have had some success, although with practically no current output.

If some cells died without water, or died from too much water, isn't this what we are trying to stay away from, the dependance of the use of water?
I am curious as to which cells (of the hundreds) that you've have made, don't use and need more water added, and are still working without any drop in current levels? I am not being critical, so please don't take it that way, just trying to see what works, without water, as this thread is about dry non galvanic type of cells.
John B has tried to find the answer to this riddle, and has shown us his solid state cell, but did not show how it was made, at least not that I can see. It only puts out a couple of mA, just like my cells do, but they can still light leds, for a very long time.


Solid state cell:
Solid State Crystal Batteries In Series 2 - YouTube

[jehdds]

@ Plengo and All:
Yes, there may also be more to All cells than just a galvanic reaction, due to the reasons I've already mentioned. My cells need no water, at all. They are the proof that there is a non galvanic source of power, also.
Ib2 has also shown his two different wire salt crystal/glue cell, needing no additional water, and still working for quite a while. I take that as another proof of concept. We have both been working towards that goal, and have had some success, although with practically no current output.

If some cells died without water, or died from too much water, isn't this what we are trying to stay away from, the dependance of the use of water?
I am curious as to which cells (of the hundreds) that you've have made, don't use and need more water added, and are still working without any drop in current levels? I am not being critical, so please don't take it that way, just trying to see what works, without water, as this thread is about dry non galvanic type of cells.
John B has tried to find the answer to this riddle, and has shown us his solid state cell, but did not show how it was made, at least not that I can see. It only puts out a couple of mA, just like my cells do, but they can still light leds, for a very long time.


Solid state cell:
Solid State Crystal Batteries In Series 2 - YouTube

Nick,
Here is a guess and what I have found....
http://rm1.cc.lehigh.edu:8080/dept/I...atsumisago.pdf
All with time.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[LetsReplicate]

You must use Morton's salt substitute, it has something in it besides the chloride that makes the cells do what they do. You must use the Morton's to fully understand what I'm saying, trust me.

So I'm supposed to go to the city and go driving around from store to store in the hopes of finding a specific brand name of toxic salt substitute? (potassium chloride causes heart problems in healthy people: don't eat it) I probably can't even get Morton's here unless I special order it online, I did look for it.

So if I need Morton's to build your cells I'm simply going to use a different method of building the cell. Perhaps one that doesn't use Potassium Chloride, like Diveflyfish's. I am not afraid of water and all of these cells are cheaply replaceable when they degrade, so there is no reason whatsoever to think that adding water is a problem.

You can't say Morton's is necessary unless you've tried cells with other salt subs. You have no idea how a Siffo cell differs from, or doesn't differ from, your Morton's cell. You are jumping to an unfounded conclusion. More information is needed to say anything definitive.

There's a reason why I don't make these cells anymore and its mostly to do with the water needed to grow the crystal. I could never use a magnesium electrode because magnesium would fizz right away when place in the water mix. The fizzing and bubbling of magnesium in water is not it developing a oxide layer but instead its releasing gasses and corroding away.

That is why it is better to build up an oxide layer first using electrolysis, that way it doesn't fizz. The water in Elmer's glue will also cause fizzing on the bare magnesium as it drys, the gas will just be trapped around the electrode which will cause it to form moisture channels as the gas escapes the glue. This is akin to a capacitor bloating, there is a lot of force in those small gas buildups. These microscopic gas channels would also push through your spray paint coating. so all you're really doing by sealing it is limiting how much moisture from the air gets in, not stopping it. You live in a more humid climate than me, a fully dry glue cell reads as an open circuit here, it takes moisture in the air to make it run unless moisture is added. There is no direct gain to sealing the cell that I can see and moisture in the cell is the difference between the cell working, and the cell reading as an open circuit with no voltage.

I do the things I do for a reason. I use Notebook paper instead of copper cup or a cup like container because notebook paper doesn't trap water like a cup would. The paper wicks away the excess water and allows the cell to dry faster. I use the glue because it protects the inner metals from the outside air. I use Thin Magnesium ribbon and small 18 gauge copper wire because they will show corrosion faster than a bigger versions of them and when done right the glue cell doesn't show corrosion on the inside of the metals. I coat the cells with plastic or paint to protect it from the air and any water. Once my cells are made they don't need any water, ever, to run so that is why I coat them. The use of no needed water and coating them makes the cells electrodes last longer.

And for the 22gauge (which is SMALLER than 18gauge) aluminum-copper wire cells have to be crafted on plastic then flipped over and re-coated. Aluminum doesn't fizz and it's corrosion stays mostly in place, only weakening the wire. They are bifilar pancake coils which require both ends of each coil to exit the glue. I've been looking into ohmic leads to exit the glue (bolts) but there is no easy way to place them on the jig for winding. The cells are useless if the aluminum leads keep braking, and I seriously doubt that Morton's is the reason yours aren't breaking since you are were undoubtedly using thicker wire and magnesium is more flexible than aluminum. That is the exact reason I'm looking at Diveflyfish's ZnO "hot paint" for the cells now instead of Elmer's glue.

I could make my cells just like Bedini's Alum battery, Where I use a copper bowl and a huge piece of Magnesium that is separated by Epsom salt and salt substitute and water mix. I have done this but the thing is when the salts dry out I still have voltage but to bring amps back I can do what they do and add a drop of water and then i'm back to using water as the median of transport. The good news is that I would be using huge electrodes that won't corrode as quick as smaller electrodes. Bedini says to use the big magnesium electrode because its more pure than magnesium ribbon. Its not that the magnesium ribbon is less pure (it 99.98% pure) it just that the bigger magnesium bedini uses is just bigger so it takes longer to see any side effects of corrosion.

An electrolyte is ALWAYS going to be the median of transport whether you like it or not. ANY electrolyte will decompose the magnesium. By sealing moisture into the cell (which is what the glue is doing), you are slowing down the current output. When you slow down the current output the degradation of the metal slows down too.

If we were drawing 60mA off the copper-magnesium cell, we would see the magnesium degrade pretty quickly. But since we're capped at only drawing microamps in the semi-dry cells, the magnesium can appear to last for years.

Thick magnesium rods are nice because they have a large surface area and can be sanded/filed down to make new cells when the old ones die. That allows for multiple tests for the best combination without continually buying more metal. Water heater sacrificial anodes (magnesium bars) can last for years while completely immersed in water, that is what they are intended for.

[NickZ]

All:
I think that some guys are missing the point of this thread. It is not about how to best use water or other liquids like bleach, acids, alkalines, etz to make wet cells that will work while the liquid is producing a chemical reaction, on sacrificial metals. There are already many of those type of batteries on the market, which can last for some time, and do work well. But, the idea here is not to compete with existing battery technologies, that function by charging and discharging batteries, primary or secondary type batteries. But to invent a dry cell, or a solid state type of crystal cells with a perpetual output, not ever needing to be charged, and never getting discharged, but without using galvanics to accomplish this result. Because a galvanic reaction will require the cells to break down and consume itself in time, and that is what we are trying to avoid, here.
So, some will think that their cells work fine so long as you add more water, and replace the sacrificial metals. And that's fine. But the rest of us that have been posting on this thread are working on dry cells, for a while now, and are working towards something else, that does not need water or liquids to work, and that will NOT die without continual waterings.

[NickZ]

@ Jim:
Yes, that looks like a good way to go. John had mentioned about the use of the ceramic electrolytes, which may also work very similar to these glass ones used in the Lithium batteries.

I just saw a video of a guy using similar methods as what I've been working on. He uses quartz, and two other rocks, only, as his electrolyte.
Check this out:
Joel Harvey's Crystal Battery, Endless Battery, SSEP Solid State Electron Pump. Study "Conclusion" - YouTube

NickZ

[NickZ]

@ John Bedini:
Hey John, do you miss us as much as we miss you???

[jehdds]

Guys,
Nick has a point. True solid state is what we seek.
I just destroyed for inspection ten cells of various mixes.
Interesting that one CAN see what appears to be frank galvanic action,
BUT not on all, AND upon close examination they make one think that what may appear as galvanic destruction COULD be a byproduct of polarizing a bit too vigorously and for TOO long.
Observations:
Copper if not oxidized before assembly is worthless,
And even after is still not optimal.
Inside out cell proved do NOT mix and match Cathodic materials.
Carbon is better for seeing less MG deterioration with excessive water.
If one sands down to bare metal where what appeared to be galvanic deterioration of the Mg, deep in any pit is either ZnO or MnO2 which indicate to me that it was a product of the polarization and NOT just galvanic attack.
Most cells showed no alteration of the oxide layer. This is consistent with pre treatment before assembly and post assembly just " Zappping" cell and NOT BLASTING / JUCING the heck out of the cell.
Despite ones subconscious hope that cramming a few more Joules into a cell in an effort to make the magical 4V 200mA forever cell is VERY
Counterproductive.
I do NOT think the ZnO/Carbon/Mg variant cells are electrochemically destroyed as one might anticipate. They ARE dependent for Current on some POLAR molecule. Can they work well for relatively moderate current,
You Bet. Can they last long? Yes. Are they solid state?
No. They are mutants. So far only JB has shown TRUE Solid State Cell,
Period. All Others have some molecular water tied up or needed for function.
My last Mn02/ZnO/silica gel that sprouted lots of crystals has not been touched with any water. It appears bone dry and makes 1.6v 500uA.
Is it anhydrous? Not a chance. Some water is in the lattice.
But it is acting like a stove top cell in that no water has been added.
I agree all we are doing helps learn. But perhaps we should switch gears and move toward the kiln. JB has and our friend from Alaska sees it too.
All thoughts welcome and I applaud all here for the tenacity,
Creativity and honesty. It is refreshing, and encouraging.
The key is to NOT quit trying, rather continue to pursue.
I am happy you all do so.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[plengo]

I have been making cells like craizy. They are all lighting 10mm LEDs very bright. Some has 3 LEDs on and no oscilator.

Everytime i make a new i play with geometry. This is key. Water is the gas or sacrificial element. Water is actually good if controlled. No galvanic here.

This is not just chemistry guys. Transcend that a little. Do you really think a tree lives on what? Nutrients from the ground? Only? Water and radiation from the sun. Without either there is no tree.

Yes can be galvanic if you want, but if you control it is no longer galvanic. What you call pitty is just the first phase unless you add too much water or reactants.

Geometry.
Fausto.

[ibpointless2]

You can't say Morton's is necessary unless you've tried cells with other salt subs. You have no idea how a Siffo cell differs from, or doesn't differ from, your Morton's cell. You are jumping to an unfounded conclusion. More information is needed to say anything definitive.

I say Morton's is necessary if you wan't to replicate my Crystal glue cell and my stove top cell. Just look at Lidmotors replication of my stove top cell, he uses Morton and the cell stays alive without ever needing water added to it and that's due to the Morton's salt substitute. If you replicate my cells like I have using the Morton salt sub then you wont need to add water to it to keep the voltage alive.

So Yes I find it necessary to Use Morton's salt substitute if you want a cell that doesn't need water constantly added to it to keep the voltage alive. If you keep adding water to the cells it will corrode due to the water eating at the metals. Like I keep saying you need to trust me on this, I know its hard to understand but when you do make my cell correctly and it keeps its voltage even after a week without you adding any water you will then understand.

I have made many cells with many types of salt combinations and i find that there is something about Morton's salt sub and Epsom salts that makes a great cell that doesn't need water to keep its voltage alive.

[ibpointless2]

All:
I think that some guys are missing the point of this thread. It is not about how to best use water or other liquids like bleach, acids, alkalines, etz to make wet cells that will work while the liquid is producing a chemical reaction, on sacrificial metals. There are already many of those type of batteries on the market, which can last for some time, and do work well. But, the idea here is not to compete with existing battery technologies, that function by charging and discharging batteries, primary or secondary type batteries. But to invent a dry cell, or a solid state type of crystal cells with a perpetual output, not ever needing to be charged, and never getting discharged, but without using galvanics to accomplish this result. Because a galvanic reaction will require the cells to break down and consume itself in time, and that is what we are trying to avoid, here.
So, some will think that their cells work fine so long as you add more water, and replace the sacrificial metals. And that's fine. But the rest of us that have been posting on this thread are working on dry cells, for a while now, and are working towards something else, that does not need water or liquids to work, and that will NOT die without continual waterings.

I think you said it best NickZ. We're not here to make and compete with battery tech that's in AA or any battery but we're here to make crystal cells. Yes we can make a cell that uses water but if the metals are consumed than we merely made something that's already available at the stores. Our goals are to make cells that are like Marcus Reid with perpetual output but since Reid won't tell us how he did it we all must figure it out for ourselves. Well said NickZ

If anyone want to replicate my cells it important to use Morton's salt sub and once the cell is dry its also important to never add water to it. But if you don't want to replicate my cells than it doesn't matter what salt subs you use.

[LetsReplicate]

I say Morton's is necessary if you wan't to replicate my Crystal glue cell and my stove top cell. Just look at Lidmotors replication of my stove top cell, he uses Morton and the cell stays alive without ever needing water added to it and that's due to the Morton's salt substitute. If you replicate my cells like I have using the Morton salt sub then you wont need to add water to it to keep the voltage alive.

So Yes I find it necessary to Use Morton's salt substitute if you want a cell that doesn't need water constantly added to it to keep the voltage alive. If you keep adding water to the cells it will corrode due to the water eating at the metals. Like I keep saying you need to trust me on this, I know its hard to understand but when you do make my cell correctly and it keeps its voltage even after a week without you adding any water you will then understand.

My point has NOTHING to do with how long they last with or without water.

I ONLY care about how much USEFUL power can be extracted from the cells during their operational life. The Tripenny's first round of tests with 3 semi-dry magnesium-copper pipe cap cells had a peak DC output power of 100uW (that is in addition to flashing 1-3 green leds depending on the sourcing current and output charge level). I've confirmed that I do have the ground loop configured properly, if I reverse the Earth ground and the aluminum backplate the power drops significantly. It is definite a good start and I'm eager to see how the results of other cells will be. I'll be remaking my cells with the addition of carbon tomorrow.

The reason why the semi-dry cell is the peak of the power production, it is because the crystal is in a "super cooled liquid" state so it is acting as both a liquid, and a crystal. That allows for ion exchange in the chemical reactions. Adding glass, ceramic, or porcelain would be adding a super cooled liquid to the cell which forms the electrolyte without water (a reason I like Diveflyfish's cells ). That makes them solidstate. HOWEVER: ion exchange is still occurring for the base current that comes out of the cell regardless of whether it is receiving/producing extra energy or not. That means that your electrodes ARE corroding and it doesn't matter if you slow that down because you are just slowing down the reaction but not getting any more power out of the cell.

We NEED energy gain NOT long life.

I have made many cells with many types of salt combinations and i find that there is something about Morton's salt sub and Epsom salts that makes a great cell that doesn't need water to keep its voltage alive.

"Many types of salt combination" undoubtedly did not include using a potassium chloride with a different anti-caking agent (that means it prevents big crystals from forming, because that is what the chemicals you mentioned are) to compare the differences. Before you go enforcing a brand name you should check to see if it matters at all. The test with another brand of salt substitute needs to be done by you, in your environment so that it can be a fair comparison to your "control" Morton's cells. If you don't do it we will never know if if one of the anti-caking agents in Morton's is useful to the effect, or if another brand works better. You seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the one you are using is somehow "the best" brand and that would be possible, but unlikely.

That "something about" is Epsom's capability to hold a WHOLE BUNCH of water in its crystal structure (alum can do that too, so can borax). It has very little to do with the potassium chloride because that is incapable of holding water. The chlorine may be the oxidizer in the chemical reaction for your cell (producing magnesium chloride instead of magnesium oxide or magnesium hydroxide)

[ibpointless2]

A video showing that Morton's salt substitute is key to make cell that will not need water added to it to keep it alive. Crystal Glue Cells don't need water to keep them alive - YouTube

[ibpointless2]

You seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the one you are using is somehow "the best" brand and that would be possible, but unlikely.

That "something about" is Epsom's capability to hold a WHOLE BUNCH of water in its crystal structure (alum can do that too, so can borax). It has very little to do with the potassium chloride because that is incapable of holding water. The chlorine may be the oxidizer in the chemical reaction for your cell (producing magnesium chloride instead of magnesium oxide or magnesium hydroxide)

I have not jump to any conclusion, in-fact it wasn't me that brought the idea up that morton's was what we needed. A person doing replications of my cell on Overunity.com has mention to me that his cells is not working and we both found that he used Nu-salt brand salt sub and it contain different things that Morton does.

I always thought it was the potassium chloride but it seems there is something more in the Morton's salt sub. That something more is not due to the water in the Epsom salt. I have been over this so many times that I just tell people to make a cell with only glue and Epsom salt and watch how over a week the cell looses voltage while the Elmer's glue, mortons salt sub, and Epsom salt cell still goes on. Yes Epsom salt has water in it and yes it does absorb water but that Is not the reason why my crystal glue cells work. If Epsom salt absorbing water form the air was the reason why my cells work i would never need any other salt but it doesn't work like that!!!!!!! I even many videos of this Glue Crystal cell does not run on water - YouTube

This is why I say you must trust me, you won't know until you do the experiments yourself and see. My biggest pet peeve with my cells is how everyone jumps to conclusion that Epsom salt contains water is absorbing water form the air and say this is why my cells work without them ever making a Glue-Epsom salt only cell and seeing that the Epsom salt cells voltage dies out while the Glue-morton's salt sub-Epsom salt cells voltage stay alive.

[NickZ]

@ All:
WE may think that as long as the metals used in the cells are preconditioned by an oxide layer, that that will protect them. Well, this really needs to be proven, and that can take some time to really know for sure.
My opinion is that if you seal in moisture inside a cell, it can prolong its use, due to the lack of oxygen, but sooner or later it can break down even that oxide layer, and drop the cells output levels. The main thing is how long will it last under a constant load? One month? A year? 10 years?
The movement of current flux is what wears at the metals. If there is no movement of current, no air, and no water, the cells should last, and last. Does this mean that the cells will be weak, with just a fluffy voltage without current? Hopefully not. That is still under experimentation to resolve. Lightning also comes from the same source, the Aether. So, that the source of that power is not a weak source, but out attempts at tapping that source, are weak.

Initial or additional prolonged bump charges on freshly made cells will cause electrolysis to oxidize the cells metals, and to prematurely ruin or contaminate the electrolyte of the cells, to a degree.
But, if you use a magnet to polarize (not to charge) the cells, maybe that will work as expected, but only if the cell mix is in the initial liquid or molten state. So that the axis of the ions (like tiny invisible magnets), will aline, thus creating a potential voltage source similar to how a magnet works. This a non-physical alinement here, as ions are not atoms of physical matter, and are more similar to photons.

Sunlight is being created daily by a polarization of the photons (needles) in our atmosphere, that are in alinement with the Sun. Light does NOT come from the Sun. Light is created on Earth, and on every other planet, as well as their moons, that also emit (not reflect) light on the side facing the sun.
So, what does photon polarization that have to do with our cells? Well, without the Sun (as at night time) the photon needles are in a random state, known as darkness, but once the Sun appears to these same random photons, they will again aline with the Sun to manufacture or create what we call Sun Light. Sun light should really be called Earth light, or just light, instead.
In a similar way our cells can operate, by an ion polarization process that is somewhat similar to how a magnet works, instead of by a chemical galvanic reaction.

I know that I'm not very good at giving the above explanation, but I hope that you will understand what I mean.
NickZ