Bedini Earth Light

[plengo]

Thanks JB for sharing, it's MUCH appreciated.

@FrozenWaterLab

I believe JB is referring to SODIUM METASILICATE PENTAHYDRATE - SiO3Na2•5H2O, seeing that every mention JB has made regarding hydrates is in reference to a sodium silicate hydrate, and where the water molecule can be either 5,6,8 or 9.

SODIUM METASILICATE PENTAHYDRATE

rw

AND don't heat above 100c. The pdf document I was refering to (http://144.206.159.178/FT/627/536386/14042576.pdf) clearly explain what happens if you raise the temperature too high.

So at 100c you still will have the hydrates in place.

Fausto.

[FrozenWaterLab]

Hydrates and Heptahydrates, and how to fix the John Hutchison cells.

Follow these instructions very careful or the test will not pan out.

We have been over and over and over this and I really do not have time to teach this from scratch about Crystals.

Take the copper and heat until Cherry Red and dip in warm water until you form a layer of black oxide and I mean Black, test with Ohm Meter for conduction you should find none. Then the copper is ready to work with.

Added by FrznWtr
Prepare a Hydrate to be labeled #5 by heating a quantity (?small amount like 1/2 pint because only using as a dopant) of sodium silicate hydrate (Water Glass) in a stainless vessel to almost (but not coming near) 100 c (? What is that in Fairenhite ?)
This should be done outside due to the noxious nature of the fumes.
At some point (?I assume while the mixture is cold) we will add Magnesium filings or power ( I assume maybe 10% by Volume) to allow them to be reduced by the caustic nature of the heated sodium silicate. This will produce SODIUM METASILICATE PENTAHYDRATE.
(Referred to as Hydrate # 5 below)
This mixture will evaporate away at some point.
(I would assume that this must be watched to avoid overheating)
Added by FrznWtr

Take Rochelle Salts 3 spoons
Take Epsom salts 1 spoon
Take Hydrate # 5 and dope the mixture with two pinches.
Then take Iron Pyrite and file enough into the mix so you can see it as a
bronze covering in the mixture Mix it up with a spoon. Then take the magnesium and file it until you see it covering the mixture then mix it again in this dry mix.

Now take a hot plate and take just enough of the mixture in a stainless steel cup and add 4ml of water not much, heat to 100c stering until you see little bubbles at this time the chemical will almost be ready it will dry very fast so you must work fast. Do this in a plastic box so you can seal it.
Pour the mixture the first time in the box and push the copper into it and cover the flat sheet completely with mixture. Now cut a paper towel to fit over the electrode and push it down on the copper as this will be sticky Use a big piece of magnesium (like a fire starter flat piece, drill a hole for a screw to attach a wire same for the copper, you can scrape and solder the wire on the copper.
Now heat the rest of the mixture and pour it into the box and just push the Magnesium into it, make sure it's almost to the top of the Magnesium.

Note: it would be better if you cut notches out of the magnesium so the crystal can form in the groves around the outside.
When this is completed you will have a very sticky crystal that will dry out, but in the meantime it will give between 10 and 50 Ma for the Radiant Oscillator circuit I have discussed before on this group. When the crystal dries out it will produce between 4.5 to 10 Ma with the radiant circuit, not the joule thief.
I have used these and have watched them work for weeks even months, the Idea is to enclose them with enough H2O in the mixture as this is what this cell requires to work.
If you make a crappy unit you will fail, if you use the wrong electronics you will fail, just do it the way I have said here. Make sure you can not see any conductivity of the copper with an ohm meter The only conductivity you should see is in the meg ohms. That black oxide is making an NPN device, when you see no more power add 1ml of water to each side don't worry about your Magnesium because it's going to take years to kill this cell.

Now all this being said if you follow directions it will work for you If you can not get the materials then ask Chuck or I for the correct electronics/ Magnesium/ Box as most of this is in the Kits we have made for sale. This is the only way to learn how to do it, then experiment yourself and see if you can make it better.
John B

I have added the bold above. Is this correct? If I'm wrong let me know and I'll delete it.
Need hot-plate - Waterglass (had a Quart jar for block repair some time back) looking over shelves but might need to order some. Have Mg Drill shavings from earth batt experiments and Stainless container. Will order some powdered Mg.
Have 2 Meat thermo's but both are in Farenhite to 220, I suspect the probe type will be best .
Outside is below zero and only 6hr's light a day this time of year.(But thats gaining now)
Snow is couple feet deep. (Need to melt some and put away for pure water source)
FrznWtr

[tecknomancer]

Added by FrznWtr
Prepare a Hydrate to be labeled #5 by heating a quantity (?small amount like 1/2 pint because only using as a dopant) of sodium silicate hydrate (Water Glass) in a stainless vessel to almost (but not coming near) 100 c (? What is that in Fairenhite ?)
This should be done outside due to the noxious nature of the fumes.
At some point (?I assume while the mixture is cold) we will add Magnesium filings or power ( I assume maybe 10% by Volume) to allow them to be reduced by the caustic nature of the heated sodium silicate. This will produce SODIUM METASILICATE PENTAHYDRATE.
(Referred to as Hydrate # 5 below)
This mixture will evaporate away at some point.
(I would assume that this must be watched to avoid overheating)
Added by FrznWtr

100 c is 212 in Fairenhite


Celsius and Fahrenheit Conversion

[FrozenWaterLab]

100 c is 212 in Fairenhite


Celsius and Fahrenheit Conversion

Tnks - Added myself a link to that.
These are the two Therms I have that go to 220F I will use the Probe.
When I've done this Then I will try using the kiln but must get the exhaust system working first.
I have to overcome my aversion to pumping heat outside haha.

[FrozenWaterLab]

Sodium Metasilicate, Pentahydrate

I found this at Fisher Scientific
---
Sodium Metasilicate, Pentahydrate
Fine, moist crystals, granules or beads
White
Disodium Trioxosilicate, Pentahydrate

Na2SiO3·5H2O
F.W.212.74
[10213-79-3]

ItemsPhysical PropertiesSafety and Handling
Description Catalog Number Quantity Price
500g

S71201 Each for $13.00

Is this the same thing ????? or is this just the reduced to power form sodium silicate without the Mg ????? For $13 I'd be happy to skip that evolution.

[FrozenWaterLab]

Magnesium powder

Found this at Fisher also

Magnesium powder, -325 mesh, 99.8%, Alfa Aesar
99.8% Mg F.W.24.3 [7439-95-4]
AA1023322
Alfa Aesar
No.:10233-22

Quantity Price
100g Each for $76.79

Kinda spendie - Thinking the drill cuttings will have to do OR time to get out the file.

[John_Bedini]

Crystals

Ibpointlass,
I guess I could ask the same question of you, Adding a little water to a crystal growing means nothing as the crystal has channels that can lock up the water hydrate # 5. Does your glue cell grow and is it really dry. what would happen if you made a very big one and added a drop of water?
John B

[FrozenWaterLab]

After Study

OK been reading
The SODIUM METASILICATE PENTAHYDRATE I found at Fisher must be a powered form of WaterGlass.
Has this stuff been heated too much?
Will I need to get the liquid to start with?
If not this material would require hydration (Water).
Eather way then add the Mg fillings to heat till Mg is dissolved and reduced to another form of material that will need to be ground up. That material is some Special form of Talc. This would be used as the dopant.
I would suspect a pan would be best
Trying to get it straight.
Tnks in adv. for any help FrznWtr

[jehdds]

Found this at Fisher also

Magnesium powder, -325 mesh, 99.8%, Alfa Aesar
99.8% Mg F.W.24.3 [7439-95-4]
AA1023322
Alfa Aesar
No.:10233-22

Quantity Price
100g Each for $76.79

Kinda spendie - Thinking the drill cuttings will have to do OR time to get out the file.

One Technique I found that makes lovely fine particulate Mg is a Emory Mesh Type sheet that they use for Drywall sanding. Take a block of Magnesium to that over a piece of paper and the mesh size openings that allow gypsum dust not to clog the material allows the magnesium to drop on to the paper.
Just a hint.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

Ibpointlass,
I guess I could ask the same question of you, Adding a little water to a crystal growing means nothing as the crystal has channels that can lock up the water hydrate # 5. Does your glue cell grow and is it really dry. what would happen if you made a very big one and added a drop of water?
John B

Dear John, Ib and All,

This is the crux of the issue. Minerals can and do OFTEN contain water as part of the crystal Lattice. Water amplifies the output on Salt based cells. I have done EXTENSIVE AND LONG TERM desiccant tests on cells, including hyperbaric and negative pressure tests. There is given the nature of the materials we are using a natural proclivity of the salts to imbibe water from the atmosphere, albeit in tiny trace amounts. This is critical to the ionic mobility within the lattice itself, given the materials we ARE using on these cells the stove top cell included.

The key to the continued operation of the cells either by passive or active modus is found here:
Hygroscopy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Specifically respecting the concept of Deliquescent materials.

JB or others please correct me if I am wrong but POSITIVE IONS can only travel in Gaseous or LIQUID medium, and yes, glass is a supercooled liquid. This means Plasma or fluid. What we perhaps all seek is that tantalizing tidbit and really nifty demonstration of the glassy type electrolyte cell that John presented. That is an apple, we are playing with oranges. They are NOT the same fruit, yet share the same characteristic that they both use liquid for ionic transport, one being for all intent and purpose solid glass.
These cells we are making are not plasma to be sure, therefore, some type of carrier liquid is essential. How much, where it is trapped and how long it lasts has to do with the geometry of the lattice, the cell and the ambient environment. I am a simple dentist. I know a little about crystal lattice and the effects of hydration on a practical level. TEETH are crystalline and they ARE hydrous. They also are piezoelectric believe it or not due to hydroxyapatite. Remove the fluid from the lattice and BAD things happen to all the aspects and characteristics of the lattice. This is not the case for all crystals, rather it may be a realization of knowing what you are working with. Another example is opal as a stone is HYDROUS and thus, needs to be periodically treated with oil or stored if not mounted in oil to ensure the TRAPPED water is not lost which leads to lack of the luster and characteristics of opals. We need to SEE what CRYSTALS we are working with are predominantly SALTS. THEY ABSORB WATER, unless you place them in an environment that PREVENTS this. The key is to see how efficiently we can harness useable electricity without losing the constituent electrode materials via galvanic action and more specifically electrically driven metallic consumption. I have made cells that seem to keep the Mg around as well as the cells that seem to create a ton of current yet after prolonged use, Mg deterioration is noted, albeit in a very delayed way, thus JB's noting that it would take YEARS to kill a cell. THIS IS TRUTH. Now, the simple determination needs to be made by all what it is that you seek to accomplish.
I can say I seek to make a cell that does not digest itself. If all that is required is the periodic application of SOME form of Liquid, be it water or other, than we have what could be considered a fuel cell. That is fine. If what we can make requires NO hydration but RECHARGING then we are no further ahead but perhaps safer than existing art of LiPo cells. IF we can make a system that RECYCLES the Fluid such as the MR cells perhaps do, and acts as an infinite battery, due to clever ionic recycle and shuttle of electrons, or as billions of diodes to capture RF or other flavors of energy that permeate the milieu, than FOR SURE THIS IS CARVING NEW TERRITORY. This is what I seek to make. So I would propose that we accept that the salt based crystals are in some manner or other tied to water for function. What is not entirely clear is that metallic degradation is CONTINUOUS. I know that metallic alteration CAN AND DOES OCCUR if you electrically attempt to deposit material on an electrode. Now, does CONTINUED METALLIC DESTRUCTION CONTINUE? Not necessarily. This is the tough one to prove.
I am still attempting to vet that it is possible to prevent consumption of the metallic substrates, thus, I choose to use Mg that can easily register deterioration. Al takes much longer to see, and perhaps may even prove to be a better metal due to the fantastically fast oxide production such that what would last for years on Mg may last DECADES on Al. Just a thought. Now again, is this what we are seeking? I wish to pursue NON consumption of metallic compounds. So the proposal is to perhaps start a thread on the INFINITE BATTERY. The rigor of determining NON metallic consumption will be a tough hurdle. BUT the benefits of the brilliant minds out there may just make it possible. Just a thought. Just a proposal.
If we seek to make something different, we need to shift gears.
Please forgive my standing on a soap box. I am short of stature
I welcome all thoughts on my mini rant. I do not pretend to have the answers to be sure, rather, I seek to learn more, in essence, I am not satisfied with where we are. This list and group have accomplished a great deal. The mentorship and guidance is heartfelt and appreciated beyond words, JB, Chuck, ALL who experiment and to those BRILLIANT ones who make the output of our cells actually useful, JB, Lidmotor et all. Lets keep the momentum up. We can accomplish more. There are many minds that can work together to find New answers.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[Allen Burgess]

Synonyms for Sodium MetaSilicate

@jehdds,

I owe you an apology!

There are here already a grand total of at least thirteen synonyms for the identical compound:

Products >>> Sodium MetaSilicate Na2SiO3.5H20

Sodium MetaSilicate
Na2SiO3.5H2O

Chemical Product and Company Identification
MSDS Name Sodium meta-Silicate pentahydrate

Synonyms Water Glass;

1.-Crysmet,
2.-Silicic acid (H2SiO3),
3.-Disodium metasilicate pentahydrate,
4.-Sodium Metasilicate pentahydrate,
5.-Disodium trioxosilicate,
6.-Nonahydrate,
7.-Metasilicic acid sodium salt,
8.-Dorimetakeiso 5aq,
9.-Dry Metakeiso 5aq,
10.Metso granular,
11.Sodium silicate hydrate,
12.Stoichiometric Sodium Silicate,
13.Sodiummetasilikat.

[jehdds]

@jehdds,

I owe you an apology!

There are here a grand total of Eleven synoyms for the identical compound:

Products >>> Sodium MetaSilicate Na2SiO3.5H20

Sodium MetaSilicate
Na2SiO3.5H2O

Chemical Product and Company Identification
MSDS Name Sodium meta-Silicate pentahydrate

Synonyms Water Glass;

1.-Crysmet;
2.-Silicic acid (H2SiO3),
3.-Disodium metasilicate pentahydrate;
4.-Sodium Metasilicate pentahydrate,
5.-Disodium trioxosilicate,
6.-nonahydrate,
7.-Metasilicic acid sodium salt,
8.-Dorimetakeiso 5aq,
9.-Dry Metakeiso 5aq
10.-Metso granular,
11-Sodium silicate hydrate
12.-Stoichiometric Sodium Silicate

Allen,
No apology necessary. I do not have an ego. It was destroyed in Dental School This is about truth and what we are attempting to accomplish.
Only an intellectually honest man can be critical of questioning ones own beliefs or thoughts. I try to do this all the time to keep ones perspective honed to the task. I again, have no gain in not seeking what is reality.
Thank you for your note. We are all on the same path. No harm no foul.
PS.... Please let me know about the joule thief issue PM...... I simply have no recollection of ever posting there ok? I believe my posts have been 100% delimited to this thread.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

Ibpointlass,
I guess I could ask the same question of you, Adding a little water to a crystal growing means nothing as the crystal has channels that can lock up the water hydrate # 5. Does your glue cell grow and is it really dry. what would happen if you made a very big one and added a drop of water?
John B

I don't understand what my Crystal glue cell has to do with the question I asked but I'll answer anyways. Does my Crystal glue cell grow? Nope, but It actually looses weight was it dries out so I guess you could say its doing the opposite of growing. Is the crystal glue cell dry? This is a tough question to answer.All the other types of glue cells i've made when they dried out (lost water) they would die off in voltage and amps but the crystal glue cell which uses Salt substitute and Epsom salt when it dries out it still has voltage and amps while all the others types of glue cells are dead. So does it contain water? I don't know but what I do know is that I don't need to add water to it to keep it alive and by alive i mean keep voltage above one volt. As for the question of what if i made a big one and added a drop of water to it, by this I think you mean add a drop of water to it every so often? Well I have made a many 6 inch cells and other big ones too, but as for adding a drop of water is a problem i have. Once the glue is fully dried out it would not accept any more water, I have taken some of the 6 inch cells and placed them in a jar of water to see if it will absorb the water but It didn't and I was highly upset about it because i wanted to increase the amp on that cell but couldn't because it wouldn't absorb the water.


Now the question I ask was your opinion on the topic of what would you call a crystal cell? Does it have to have something in it that contains a crystal lattice? Can a cell be made of metal, or can it have a organic lattice? If a cell only gives voltage and no amps is that still a crystal cell? Since you have made many cells and have studied Marcus Reid's cell I would like to hear your opinion on what a crystal cell is and what it means and can do for man-kind.

[chuck H]

Materials

@ jehdds: well stated.
@ all: As John Bedini stated we have any materials you may need. John has spent a lot of money for all testing/ discovering/experimenting etc. We have an inventory of all the materials needed! We have a machine shop. We are a RnD company that has a production department as well... If you need any of these materials just ask! We have them for sale. You don't need to try to buy in bulk. Most of you will not be able to buy some of these materials at all if you are not Business that will even be considered. The chemical companies may not sell to you.

Call 208-772-3303
We will sell any of these materials to the group to learn how to do this.
John will have all this on his website soon so you can order online as needed.
We are now building all of these for sale as well. Some of the cells still need months of testing. We try not to release anything until it is tested for an extensive period of time to ensure a quality product can be delivered.

This is a relatively new technology to the world. You are all part of that. We understand that most people can't afford to due all the testing to figure it out. That is why John has decided to due the conferences and to sell the materials pre fabricated and or packaged for individual testing.

Once again, call us for the materials if you can't get them. We will sell them in a quantity you can hopefully afford with out all the hassle. International shipping may be a concern but we/ you won't know if you don't try.

[John_Bedini]

Crystal Cell

Ibpointlass,
I guess you could say allot of things have a crystal structure, I have casted (not a word except here) metals that have crystalline structures. Rocks and minerals defiantly have them until changed buy heat, but that is not the point here. My interests is in how much water can they hold and for how long, I find no way that this group can even make the Marcus Reid cell because of the mixtures and you would not be happy with the current of the cell between 1 to 2 Ma.

However you can make what I'm talking about with a good Hydrate and a Heptahydrate and it is a crystal cell when heated but one that will let you use water for current if you need it. The only crystal that has sparked my interest is Tourmaline powder very electrical and you can make use of this in the cells with a Hydrate # 5.

So two things Rochelle Salts and Tourmaline. So maybe my definition of a Crystal cell is much different then yours as I want to use a crystal structure to use the water without eating up the negative electrode and that is the direction I'm going in, more like a crystal fuel cell with current because of the water. Why do I want the Hydrate, because it can lock up the water in the Crystal and when it runs out a little moisture will do the job again and again.

As for the glue cell you have answered your own question if you need current a drop of water will not help so your limited in what you can do. Water is the key even in your own cells without it you can not make the electricity to fire your nerves and you die. Holding potential voltage is one thing but to have current is another and you need it.

My Magnesium is not eating away like everybody thinks, the same as Marcus Reid cells it's almost at the same rate. The only difference is Marcus Reids cell will eat away if the seal is broken as his water is locked into the structure of his cell. I on the other hand want a cell that can be activated when I want it. So, yes mine is a crystal cell just waiting to be used at the time I want it.

I have already proved that I can run Transmitters off two Alum cells for days without any loss of the Magnesium electrodes and led's and motors, oscillators and so on. The mixture I'm working on is what is going to protect the Magnesium Electrode and nothing more. So yes that would be my definition of a Crystal Cell. Hydrates hold many secrets and the material they make up when cooked at the right temperature. You would be surprised at some of the materials that could be made using that chemical, hope I have put this to rest.
John B