Bedini Earth Light

[jehdds]

Concerning the cell under water. This morning after 2 days they were running BUT the water is getting very conductive and it is shorting the cell.

I removed one from the water and see if it destroyed the cell or not and It did not destroy it. It comes back to its 1.72v just fine and keeps going.

So, this cell indeed loves water. IF one could make the water never becomes electric conductive it would definitely work as a fully hydrated cell.

My cells with Iron Pyrite are working extremely well. Whenever place we have a good separation layer of Iron Pyrite from the electrolyte (in my case Carbon and Sand) it stops the corrosion.

ANY other material touching the Magnesium corrodes the baby. Very interesting. Also the Iron Pyrite is not being consumed (at least visually). I do smell some strange smell on this cells and it is not ammonia.

Fausto.

Fausto,
I have an idea. I have some material called fluroinert from 3M.
Perhaps all that needs to be hydrated is the electrolyte layer and then the entire assembly could be immersed in the Flurocarbon liquid that is NON polar NON Miscible with water......... just thinking............ The key is to have the hydrate SO bound with water the flurocarbon does not displace the water or be able to evaporate.
Maybe it would work. Worth trying. I may even give it a go with acetone filled electrolyte and then immerse that...... At least the double bond oxygen would be less likely to disassociate. Ok maybe it is time to create a new thread......... Submersed Crystaline Electrolyte Batteries........

Very Best Regards,
Jim

[b_rads]

Protect your magnesium

I highly suggest reading the following link for those attempting to insure that your magnesium electrode does not fall victim to corrosion in your crystal cells.

http://www.corrosionist.com/Magnesium_Corrosion_Protection.html

Excerpt from this link -
“For example, the corrosion rate of commercially pure magnesium in 3% sodium chloride solution is 100 to 500 times greater than that of chemically pure magnesium (99.95 + % Mg) containing less than 10 ppm of iron, nickel, and copper combined.”

To protect your mg you should really pay attention to the chromates. These are moderately strong oxidizing agents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromate_and_dichromate
Chromate conversion coating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The question becomes, when trying to protect the Mg, are you inhibiting it's ability to produce usefulness.

Brad S

[bxcyted]

I've been searching for a source of high purity magnesium rods. rotometals offer 95.8% mg.
High purity magnesium rods and pieces 99.95%

[chuck H]

Crystal cell paste

This is a paste crystal cell. It is the same cell that was flooded a day earlier. We took the cell apart to inspect it and found that the Cu/Mg was fine and there was no pitting or degration of the Mg. So with that test done we took the same mix and made a paste and applied. The video shows the results. The motor used in the video is 1.5 volt and needs 200Ma to start it. I stated this was a .5 volt motor in the video I apologize for that.

Crystal cell paste - YouTube

Chuck H.

[NickZ]

Wow: John and Chuck, good going with that hydrate cell.
I thought that I was hallucinating when I saw the meter going higher and higher, and the motor almost go flying off by itself.
So, what's the secret? Just the same mix as before? Would sure be nice to know what's in that paste. Colgate with calcium, maybe? Ha,
Thanks for sharing...
NZ

[griplets]

I highly suggest reading the following link for those attempting to insure that your magnesium electrode does not fall victim to corrosion in your crystal cells.

http://www.corrosionist.com/Magnesium_Corrosion_Protection.html

Excerpt from this link -
“For example, the corrosion rate of commercially pure magnesium in 3% sodium chloride solution is 100 to 500 times greater than that of chemically pure magnesium (99.95 + % Mg) containing less than 10 ppm of iron, nickel, and copper combined.”

To protect your mg you should really pay attention to the chromates. These are moderately strong oxidizing agents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromate_and_dichromate
Chromate conversion coating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The question becomes, when trying to protect the Mg, are you inhibiting it's ability to produce usefulness.

Brad S

@Brad,

Yes I saw those links the other day too... I think we can now all agree that the purity of the magnesium must be at least 99.9% to assist in the prevention of corrosion.

@Chuck & John B.
Great work! I cant wait to get all the details so I can test it too.

Alex.

[Michael Kishline]

@John & Chuck

Simply BRILLIANT!

Mike

[NickZ]

Brad:
Thanks for the info on the Mg. Who would of thought that it was that critical.
Makes me think that the same thing may happen with copper, aluminum, and other metals that are less than 100 % pure. John had also mentioned several times about using only the best materials, to have long lasting cells.

BTW: How have your cells that were sealed in resin doing, now after some months? I always admired your work, so nice and tidy.
NickZ

[John_Bedini]

mixture must equal copper

@All,
Here is what I think as Chuck and I test the Hydrates, this cell is a 1 Ah cell and the hydrates do react with each other. We know from testing the Magnesium what we have bought. High energy Magnesium anode material 99.9 % . Here is what must be done The Hydrate Sulphate
mixture must equal copper to not effect the magnesium. We have taken the cell apart and found the copper has been plated to with copper. If we run the 1Ah out of the cell the water disappears and the motor stops. Then Chuck adds water and the motor starts right back up.
I have ordered some chemicals that I think will do it for instant power I'm trying to get over 2Ah's from this cell. I have seen a short burst at 2 amps. I have taken a time measurement of 3.2 hrs running the motor at 150 to 200 Ma before the water is gone. If I run the SG oscillator I do not have much of a time limit it could be two days at 10 to 30 Ma. Or until dry.
This definitely is a fuel cell working here as the copper and the magnesium have not been eaten away so far. Chuck and I will get a weight on the Copper and Magnesium. This is a mind bending cell.
John B

[griplets]

@All,
The Hydrate Sulphate mixture must equal copper
John B

Thank you John.

Can you please explain what you mean by "The Hydrate Sulphate mixture must equal copper"?

Do you mean equal to the copper by weight, volume...??? Equal in what way?

Thank you,
Alex.

[John_Bedini]

I'm not a chemist

Thank you John.

Can you please explain what you mean by "The Hydrate Sulphate mixture must equal copper"?

Do you mean equal to the copper by weight, volume...??? Equal in what way?

Thank you,
Alex.

Alex,
I'm not a chemist but what I see is when the hydrate mixture contains a sulfate, now that may be coming from the Iron pyrite mix, so what happens is that the magnesium reacts with copper to form copper. So nothing is lost because it balances and you just get the energy from the water, that is what I think. I have asked the company account who teaches accounting to bring a chemistry teacher over from the collage to the shop so I can talk to him.
John B

[griplets]

@ John B.

Ok John, I look forward to hearing what you find out. I was right in my guess, it is a sulfate or combination of sulfates. I have been looking at sulphates, trying to figure out which would be best to use.

Alex.

[John_Bedini]

that is the only answer

Ok John, I look forward to hearing what you find out. I was right in my guess, it is a sulfate or combination of sulfates. I have been looking at sulphates, trying to figure out which would be best to use.

Alex.

Alex,
Yes it has to be a sulfate as that is the only answer I can come up with. You must find a way to neutralize the magnesium and change it to copper, but copper what?. This goes much further in that the materials must look like the plates of a lead storage battery, the difference in the two plates (Black and Gray). In the case of this cell it uses the water for the electrolyte, which acts like an acid. Once depleted you just add more water. In talking to Chuck as I know he is not going to say anything right now he wants to measure the total weight of the cell and then after it is use up measure the total weight again. Fausto has shown what a sulfate is doing with the magnesium by using Iron Pirate on the two metals. If you remember in some posts back I said, it looks like another metal was being plated to the magnesium. When that happened to me I started testing different forms of Iron Pirate. I would love to get this cell to 5 amperes.
John B

[b_rads]

Laugh if you must

@NickZ,
Thank You for your kind words. The encased cells that used substantial negative electrodes are still producing. Those using the Mg ribbon have all snapped off at the plastic which is understandable as corrosion will first begin at stress points.

@All,
As many of you know, I am a fan of the galvanic cells and as a result I did promise Mikrovolt that I would not discuss any of my results on this thread, and I intend to keep that promise. However, for educational purposes I will tell of two experiments that are germane to things being discussed here.

It is interesting that the subject of fuel cells has come up. Take a look at US Patent #3,163,560. This is a very simple way to make your own fuel cell for educational purposes. I made this cell a long time ago and it helped me in understanding what a fuel cell can be. The materials are inexpensive (I did substitute electrodes) and terribly simple.

While JB enjoyed poking fun at making historical galvanic cells, this replication displays the copper attaching itself to the negative electrode. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ypbO2eX1k
This is the 1860’s “Gravity” or “Crow’s Foot” cell using both Copper Sulphate Pentahydrate and Zinc Sulphate. So, have fun at my expense for replicating a very old cell, and while you are chuckling, understand that this has broadened my understanding of sulphates and depolarization.

@JB,
Your Quote – “Yes it has to be a sulfate as that is the only answer I can come up with. You must find a way to neutralize the magnesium and change it to copper, but copper what?.” I totally concur with you on this. While I have not presented any of this work on vids nor in forums, you are totally correct in my opinion. In my case with galvanics, I decide what is going to be consumed. In the for what it is worth department, do not forget to perform density (metal hardness) and mass displacement tests as well as the weight test you mentioned for analyzing the materials in your cells.

Brad S

[John_Bedini]

Galvanic cells

@NickZ,
Thank You for your kind words. The encased cells that used substantial negative electrodes are still producing. Those using the Mg ribbon have all snapped off at the plastic which is understandable as corrosion will first begin at stress points.

@All,
As many of you know, I am a fan of the galvanic cells and as a result I did promise Mikrovolt that I would not discuss any of my results on this thread, and I intend to keep that promise. However, for educational purposes I will tell of two experiments that are germane to things being discussed here.

It is interesting that the subject of fuel cells has come up. Take a look at US Patent #3,163,560. This is a very simple way to make your own fuel cell for educational purposes. I made this cell a long time ago and it helped me in understanding what a fuel cell can be. The materials are inexpensive (I did substitute electrodes) and terribly simple.

While JB enjoyed poking fun at making historical galvanic cells, this replication displays the copper attaching itself to the negative electrode. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ypbO2eX1k
This is the 1860’s “Gravity” or “Crow’s Foot” cell using both Copper Sulphate Pentahydrate and Zinc Sulphate. So, have fun at my expense for replicating a very old cell, and while you are chuckling, understand that this has broadened my understanding of sulphates and depolarization.

@JB,
Your Quote – “Yes it has to be a sulfate as that is the only answer I can come up with. You must find a way to neutralize the magnesium and change it to copper, but copper what?.” I totally concur with you on this. While I have not presented any of this work on vids nor in forums, you are totally correct in my opinion. In my case with galvanics, I decide what is going to be consumed. In the for what it is worth department, do not forget to perform density (metal hardness) and mass displacement tests as well as the weight test you mentioned for analyzing the materials in your cells.

Brad S

b Rads,
What is going on here? If you and Mikrovolt did know about this why not discuses it. I spent time talking to this chemistry professor this morning about what I did and he pointed me to the answer. I was going to discuss this but I can see I do not need to . I do understand what it is that I made. I have not poked fun at anything with Galvanic cells, I thought we were trying to stop the galvanic action in the cells, maybe that is poking fun.

Yes it is a form of Sulfate I made according to the chemistry professor, He had never looked at making it this way but it works. Do not think for one minute I would poke fun at any battery. I guess you could say it did broaden everybody's understanding. But, if you can not get any usable current out of these cells then they are useless. I myself do not see any purpose in cells in Micro-Amps.

I do understand what your saying about the Crow's Foot cell as I have made them, but Magnesium changes the whole picture according to this chemistry professor especially if you can stop the Magnesium from being consumed.

I did not make what your showing for a chemical, but I think that would work real good, but how long and at what current level? I also think it was pointed out that small currents in these cells could last forever. So what is it that you and Microvolt can not discusses here since we have been full circle ? Maybe I need to just change the context in what I'm saying to this group from now on. I'm not a chemistry guy but I could see this being real enjoyable as a change of knowalage.
John B