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B_rads and All:
I will give the paper separator a try. I never needed it up to now, as the carbon that I use seems to work fine without it, unlike with most all other cells. Adding even the regular table salt did increase the output, and I'll try the sea water (from my beach supply house) from now on, as it has other elements also. As I mentioned it is all free, so I can just have some fun with it all, and try to figure out how to keep it all from turning into mush. Without using salt there is no obvious oxidation though, but a sealed cell will fail in time, as water or at least the humidity in the air is what is making it all work. No doubt about it.
If you take a charcoal briquette and hold it next to aluminum, zinc, Mg, or similar it will give a voltage, over one volt, or so. This is still a galvanic reaction, as it uses air as the electrolyte, (I think). But, my goal with this was to use what I have at hand, and make something useful with it. Although, now I see that it is the water (or humidity), even within the carbon that is making it all work.
I may be stubborn, but I still have hopes to produce a true non-galvanic cell, if possible. One that works, and not just in micro-amps range, but even if only voltage is obtainable, then figure out how to work with voltage only, as Bearden suggests, with the "don't break the dipole" idea.
I have not been able to produce a functional dry cell, that needs no water to work, for more than a short while.
Things are going to get very interesting as we try to obtain higher voltages, and especially higher currents, while still keeping the metals from dissolving. If it were not for John B, we would all probably just give up. Thank you John. You are quite a guy, and thanks for sharing your work.
My next thought is to make replaceable electrodes, that can be easily taken out, cleaned or changed with new ones. As salts and air along with the hydrogen bubbles will turn into an acid, which is what is working against us.
If we keep in mind that LAB use very caustic acids and are exposed to the air (as most batteries need to vent) and are still able to function for many years. Maybe similar solutions can be used with our cells. Why bother? Because these cell don't need to be charged, like all others.
I think that Lidmotors tests are also very helpful to understand what is happening, as well as the Ib2 type glue or stove top cells showing that galvanics may still be at play here, as it just takes longer to see the results when working in micro-amps. This is a very important point, and may still need further ongoing test to prove the results.
Brad's tests also show that the thin Mg ribbon exposed to air will also disintegrate at the cells connection points, as also happens with many or most normal batteries. But, that the hermetically sealed cells (with water and oxygen) trapped inside, may work longer, than exposed cells will.
I also want to point out that my cement cells banks are now over a year old and still producing over a volt, from each cell. But the mAs have dropped from 70mA to 1 mA. And, I feel they are now working in a non-galvanic state. Possibly.
I was hoping that Sea Monkeys ideas were wrong about all this being only galvanic reactions, but it looks like up to now he may still be right. I'm taking no sides with this. As, this is all a true learning experience.
I still would love to see a true non-galvanic cell, if nothing more than just to prove the point.
This is all about having some fun, for me, with no monetary interest involved, as these cells are not going "save the world", although they can help some folks, somewhere. Or even all folks, if the lights do go out...
NickZ
I will give the paper separator a try. I never needed it up to now, as the carbon that I use seems to work fine without it, unlike with most all other cells. Adding even the regular table salt did increase the output, and I'll try the sea water (from my beach supply house) from now on, as it has other elements also. As I mentioned it is all free, so I can just have some fun with it all, and try to figure out how to keep it all from turning into mush. Without using salt there is no obvious oxidation though, but a sealed cell will fail in time, as water or at least the humidity in the air is what is making it all work. No doubt about it.
If you take a charcoal briquette and hold it next to aluminum, zinc, Mg, or similar it will give a voltage, over one volt, or so. This is still a galvanic reaction, as it uses air as the electrolyte, (I think). But, my goal with this was to use what I have at hand, and make something useful with it. Although, now I see that it is the water (or humidity), even within the carbon that is making it all work.
I may be stubborn, but I still have hopes to produce a true non-galvanic cell, if possible. One that works, and not just in micro-amps range, but even if only voltage is obtainable, then figure out how to work with voltage only, as Bearden suggests, with the "don't break the dipole" idea.
I have not been able to produce a functional dry cell, that needs no water to work, for more than a short while.
Things are going to get very interesting as we try to obtain higher voltages, and especially higher currents, while still keeping the metals from dissolving. If it were not for John B, we would all probably just give up. Thank you John. You are quite a guy, and thanks for sharing your work.
My next thought is to make replaceable electrodes, that can be easily taken out, cleaned or changed with new ones. As salts and air along with the hydrogen bubbles will turn into an acid, which is what is working against us.
If we keep in mind that LAB use very caustic acids and are exposed to the air (as most batteries need to vent) and are still able to function for many years. Maybe similar solutions can be used with our cells. Why bother? Because these cell don't need to be charged, like all others.
I think that Lidmotors tests are also very helpful to understand what is happening, as well as the Ib2 type glue or stove top cells showing that galvanics may still be at play here, as it just takes longer to see the results when working in micro-amps. This is a very important point, and may still need further ongoing test to prove the results.
Brad's tests also show that the thin Mg ribbon exposed to air will also disintegrate at the cells connection points, as also happens with many or most normal batteries. But, that the hermetically sealed cells (with water and oxygen) trapped inside, may work longer, than exposed cells will.
I also want to point out that my cement cells banks are now over a year old and still producing over a volt, from each cell. But the mAs have dropped from 70mA to 1 mA. And, I feel they are now working in a non-galvanic state. Possibly.
I was hoping that Sea Monkeys ideas were wrong about all this being only galvanic reactions, but it looks like up to now he may still be right. I'm taking no sides with this. As, this is all a true learning experience.
I still would love to see a true non-galvanic cell, if nothing more than just to prove the point.
This is all about having some fun, for me, with no monetary interest involved, as these cells are not going "save the world", although they can help some folks, somewhere. Or even all folks, if the lights do go out...
NickZ
- Kyle Herbig
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