Bedini Earth Light

[NickZ]

I realize that there is more than one newbie to this effort, and an effort it's been. And I really really wish that I had a solution to mention, or one that someone else has made or done that really works, and keeps working... But, I don't. That does not mean that it's not possible, by far.

The original idea was to avoid galvanics, as we saw that there are already many ready made galvanic batteries out there, primary and secondary batteries and wet and dry cells, that worked just fine. Some with a couple hundred years of development behind them like the lead acid batteries, and several others.
So, we here worked towards finding solutions to the basic problem of metal break down of the cells, as well as hydrogen gas build up that leads up a detriment in the output. Those issues are still unresolved, at least for the most part, in our case.
Dry non galvanic cells were next on the list of what we're trying to accomplish. The results were nominal, with little useable power, only a couple of mAs, although they had some voltage, but no power behind those volts. Fluffy voltage, like when a battery is discharged, and self charges back but with no current, as it had before.
So, it was back to wet cells that could give some power, even an amp or two, or more.
Anyways, that is where we are now. Can we maintain a current of an amp, or two? Well, that is the question... And it's possible that the answer is yes, and that may be the very reason why no one is talking about it, anymore. If you follow my drift... as we all have to eat...
My favorite saying, Time will tell...
NickZ

[Allwest]

I realize that there is more than one newbie to this effort, and an effort it's been. And I really really wish that I had a solution to mention, or one that someone else has made or done that really works, and keeps working... But, I don't. That does not mean that it's not possible, by far.

The original idea was to avoid galvanics, as we saw that there are already many ready made galvanic batteries out there, primary and secondary batteries and wet and dry cells, that worked just fine. Some with a couple hundred years of development behind them like the lead acid batteries, and several others.
So, we here worked towards finding solutions to the basic problem of metal break down of the cells, as well as hydrogen gas build up that leads up a detriment in the output. Those issues are still unresolved, at least for the most part, in our case.
Dry non galvanic cells were next on the list of what we're trying to accomplish. The results were nominal, with little useable power, only a couple of mAs, although they had some voltage, but no power behind those volts. Fluffy voltage, like when a battery is discharged, and self charges back but with no current, as it had before.
So, it was back to wet cells that could give some power, even an amp or two, or more.
Anyways, that is where we are now. Can we maintain a current of an amp, or two? Well, that is the question... And it's possible that the answer is yes, and that may be the very reason why no one is talking about it, anymore. If you follow my drift... as we all have to eat...
My favorite saying, Time will tell...
NickZ

Nick

I commend you for keeping up the fight,

But believe me, JB would be shouting from the top of the mountains if he made it, but he would not show us how to make it until he got his patents inline

This power cell is as close as it gets to what you want for now, with instructions
Nu EnergyTM Sodium Chloride Ion-valve Technology

"Using a chemalloy anode and center drilled graphite rod we obtained an output voltage of 1.6 volts open voltage, which remains constant. 130 milliamps was obtained shunted across our Simpson meter. This is equivalent to around 1/3rd of a watt."

Best of luck

[NickZ]

Allwest and All:
The use of common sea salt, (sodium chloride), and ammonia, has been used and tested, along with many other hundreds of combinations. There is nothing new or exciting there. Nor do they show the actual discharge curve, after months of constant use, UNDER A LOAD. Which is what really counts.
That combination is basically what I use, which is activated carbon, wet salty beach sand, filled into an aluminum tube with a carbon or graphite rod as the positive rail. Silica gel helps to maintain the cells from drying out and thus further losing power. Epsom and other salts work better than table or sea salt.
This has all been done before. Check the previous 137 pages of this forum, and other forums as well. As no de-polarizer is used in your suggested cell, it will also mean a dropping of output over a short time, as hydrogen gas builds up, which will also lower the output, as stated earlier. As well as the contamination of the carbon, aluminum alloy, or whatever metal is used.
Although 130 mA as is suggested is not bad, it is a long ways (1/10 the current) from what John B has shown on his last tests. That was before going silent and no further post, videos, or results were shown or discussed.
John Hutchinson, was another person that stopped showing his results, and has not laid out all his cards on the table for all to see, possibly when his best results were obtained. This is no coincidence, at all, as we'll all soon see.

As a result of the above, My personal feeling is that soon this type of cell that never needs to be charged, and does not ever fully discharge, will be available for all, to just simply buy off the shelf.

NickZ

[Allwest]

Allwest and All:
The use of common sea salt, (sodium chloride), and ammonia, has been used and tested, along with many other hundreds of combinations. There is nothing new or exciting there. Nor do they show the actual discharge curve, after months of constant use, UNDER A LOAD. Which is what really counts.
That combination is basically what I use, which is activated carbon, wet salty beach sand, filled into an aluminum tube with a carbon or graphite rod as the positive rail. Silica gel helps to maintain the cells from drying out and thus further losing power. Epsom and other salts work better than table or sea salt.
This has all been done before. Check the previous 137 pages of this forum, and other forums as well. As no de-polarizer is used in your suggested cell, it will also mean a dropping of output over a short time, as hydrogen gas builds up, which will also lower the output, as stated earlier. As well as the contamination of the carbon, aluminum alloy, or whatever metal is used.
Although 130 mA as is suggested is not bad, it is a long ways (1/10 the current) from what John B has shown on his last tests. That was before going silent and no further post, videos, or results were shown or discussed.
John Hutchinson, was another person that stopped showing his results, and has not laid out all his cards on the table for all to see, possibly when his best results were obtained. This is no coincidence, at all, as we'll all soon see.

As a result of the above, My personal feeling is that soon this type of cell that never needs to be charged, and does not ever fully discharge, will be available for all, to just simply buy off the shelf.

NickZ

Nick

All in my humble opinion

Here is JB's last cell, so I assume it is the best they have so far

If you look at the hydrate used, it looks like copper sulfate blue
Crystal battery flooded - YouTube

This is very commonly used, try it and you can get high power, I believe it is called a concentration cell

Regarding the Chemalloy battery
I just came across this, so I do not know all there is to know, they say the electrodes do not get eaten up, only the water, this is not just Au, it is a mix, with other claims other than batteries, worth further research to me

And regarding long term testing of this cell, don't know, but we do not have any long term tests from JB either

[Slider2732]

Things are complicated for me, because i'm not sure what is galvanic and what isn't. I mean, I know the process and that the metals will corrode...but there seems to be no bench mark outside of effects noted on Magnesium for clear visible indications. Some cells react over months if not years.

I know that galvanized steel in water will form a slime after a couple of months (cleaned off it returns to fine) and I know that copper (burnt or untouched) can form the blue or green oxides.
However, there are several own cells that just trundle and trundle onward, 24/7, which by all rights ought to have developed a healthy dose of unhealthiness by now..
The 2 in the pic below, are such examples and show them running as of today. Sorry about the quality, it's a video capture because the oscillators are flashing. The one on the left is the one that fell down the back of the dresser in December 2011, the one on the right is the seashell cell i've shown in videos, built in February of this year.
Both just carry on and carry on, powering blocking oscillators like they don't know they have a use by date !



To me, the output is fine for the purpose intended, but, only fine and still running because of that micro load requirement. Perhaps i'd be further along had I used Magnesium and scaled up to running a flashlight or something
Then there's the fact that the blue LED one is running contrary to all the advice we've collected about open air cells - it is indeed open and has never had more than humidity as a water source.
Or, let's throw in that the first cells, the concrete mix types and onward, will spark back to life with a couple of drops of water...after months of inactivity and run along for at least a few days. Again, the electrodes seem fine, it's all repeatable.
Finally, the likes of the wet cells such as Alum and water in a pills bottle. While the water may turn a definite shade of horrid, those still carry on and will still take a charge. All again complicated, because one of them (called APB2) has run a blocking oscillator for the last month without any charge being applied in any case

I'd say a lot more of us are actively experimenting, away from the thread - we have no choice, the LED's are still running lol

[NickZ]

@ Allwest and All:
That video in the link you've posted was not his latest, showing about a 200mA range of output. As one of the last videos that he presented to us is not available now, as far as I can tell, and are not being shown any more. Possibly for the reasons that I've already mentioned. His last videos were showing cells with an output of about 1.3 amps, dropping down from a starting current output of about 1.8 amps. Not mAs! And he mentioning his hopeful goal of a much higher output yet, like possibly up to 5 amps. After than he went silent.
If I am wrong about this, someone please correct me. My memory is not what it used to be... but I'm not brain dead yet, either.
His best and strongest cells were at times connected to his laptop to register the draw under a load over a period of time, from hours to several days. Afterwards they were opened up and inspected for galvanic wear of the magnesium, and such.

My only point in mentioning this is to relate what was achieved. As no one has come even close to those results. In my opinion, and my less than perfect memory.
NickZ

[Allwest]

Things are complicated for me, because i'm not sure what is galvanic and what isn't. I mean, I know the process and that the metals will corrode...but there seems to be no bench mark outside of effects noted on Magnesium for clear visible indications. Some cells react over months if not years.

I know that galvanized steel in water will form a slime after a couple of months (cleaned off it returns to fine) and I know that copper (burnt or untouched) can form the blue or green oxides.
However, there are several own cells that just trundle and trundle onward, 24/7, which by all rights ought to have developed a healthy dose of unhealthiness by now..
The 2 in the pic below, are such examples and show them running as of today. Sorry about the quality, it's a video capture because the oscillators are flashing. The one on the left is the one that fell down the back of the dresser in December 2011, the one on the right is the seashell cell i've shown in videos, built in February of this year.
Both just carry on and carry on, powering blocking oscillators like they don't know they have a use by date !



To me, the output is fine for the purpose intended, but, only fine and still running because of that micro load requirement. Perhaps i'd be further along had I used Magnesium and scaled up to running a flashlight or something
Then there's the fact that the blue LED one is running contrary to all the advice we've collected about open air cells - it is indeed open and has never had more than humidity as a water source.
Or, let's throw in that the first cells, the concrete mix types and onward, will spark back to life with a couple of drops of water...after months of inactivity and run along for at least a few days. Again, the electrodes seem fine, it's all repeatable.
Finally, the likes of the wet cells such as Alum and water in a pills bottle. While the water may turn a definite shade of horrid, those still carry on and will still take a charge. All again complicated, because one of them (called APB2) has run a blocking oscillator for the last month without any charge being applied in any case

I'd say a lot more of us are actively experimenting, away from the thread - we have no choice, the LED's are still running lol

Slider,

I think you have a winner with no water being added and still going

[Allwest]

@ Allwest and All:
That video in the link you've posted was not his latest, showing about a 200mA range of output. As one of the last videos that he presented to us is not available now, as far as I can tell, and are not being shown any more. Possibly for the reasons that I've already mentioned. His last videos were showing cells with an output of about 1.3 amps, dropping down from a starting current output of about 1.8 amps. Not mAs! And he mentioning his hopeful goal of a much higher output yet, like possibly up to 5 amps. After than he went silent.
If I am wrong about this, someone please correct me. My memory is not what it used to be... but I'm not brain dead yet, either.
His best and strongest cells were at times connected to his laptop to register the draw under a load over a period of time, from hours to several days. Afterwards they were opened up and inspected for galvanic wear of the magnesium, and such.

My only point in mentioning this is to relate what was achieved. As no one has come even close to those results. In my opinion, and my less than perfect memory.
NickZ

Your right Nick, that was the second to the last, which had just over an Amp then they hit it a second time and it was just below the amp

Here is the last one with the same blue liquid
Crystal cell paste - YouTube

Nick, my point being that this was there last cell that they where doing R&D on, so I am assuming that all the other cells they did testing on where not doing as well as these

Also, another note: At their conference they where preparing for

If you noticed they decided to go with the Alum and Mag cell (and start selling ) after this no more videos

Nick, you can spend your time any way you like, just be careful of what you are following

Myself ....I guess I am a realist, their last video tells me, that is the best they have, and if my theory is correct they are going back to the 100 year old technology by using copper sulfate

Nuff said

[Slider2732]

@Allwest - you might be right, but, how many people even know of such 100 year old technology ? How many people even know they can use Alum in a car battery ? there have been plenty of old cars that i've owned where I wish the previous owners had known about it for the sake of the battery trays ! lol
If we try 1001 different things and then find the old ways were indeed the best, then nothing is lost, though it seems like it perhaps.
In terms of investment in what we're doing, I have even recycled the copper from deceased cells before now, so perhaps I have some equating wrongly placed.

Here was a fun one from a couple of weeks ago. Lidmotor showed a Glowstick powering a motor via solar on one video and I thought to try the stuff in a cell. Did you know it glows without being mixed with the water ? Neither did I
I snipped off one end, removed the glass vial and broke that into the prepared pills bottle (burnt copper and galv steel electrodes). 0.75V @ 2mA when it started, fair enough for a water based electrolyte, or air humidity at least.
The cell glowed away for a few hours, was hilarious to see it running an oscillator.

[NickZ]

Allwest:
It is easy to say that something is "old", meaning that it is no longer useable or of value, or "be careful of what you follow". Like what? Are these cells going to blow up in my face? So, I'm not a realist, like yourself? Consider what you are suggesting... Enough said? Well... if you say so.

What I am mentioning is all very REAL, and well studied, and worked on.
I am telling you, (since you don't know) the best of what has been accomplished by someone here, up to now, that we are aware of.
There may be a lot more to this than meets the eye, and that we are totally not aware of. As I am dumbly assuming. As there are hundreds of the best scientists working on this all over the world. Cells that can run a car, light a house, that never need recharging. Not a small matter, as it would blow the current ship right out of the water. And the guy that invents it, will have the men in black on their doorstep, in a flash...

If you can do better, please show us. But, not by suggesting that we are all barking up the wrong tree.

You are the newbie, so, don't assume that we don't know much about this, as this research all goes back a couple hundred years, or more.

The Pyramids were built so long ago, and no one can even replicate them now, with our best current technology. There is nothing NEW under the Sun.

This is not about competition, who knows more than who, or who has the best latest battery or cells. Humble Opinion?
This is a team effort. At least it has been, and will probably continue to be.
It has taken a lot of effort to get even to where we're at. Think about it.

NickZ

[Allwest]

Hi Nick,
Okay I will try and clarify myself

I really don't mean to sound combative on anything here, we are all in this together

I am just careful on what I follow and spend my time on, we have all been there chasing a wild dream someone has, the same as you had mentioned to someone else (I think it related to Pyramids) that you had spent allot of time on trying to replicate with no avail

You hold JB to a higher standard, I Don't, I hold him to a standard just like everyone else (test and prove)

I can guess at his motives for doing what he is doing, and one of them is to make MONEY, just like everyone else

That does not make him a good guy or bad guy

Regarding something old is not good or worth studying or bringing back is not the point here, I believe there is allot of things OLD worth bringing back and have value

But if the point here is to study crystal cells, JB is off track and should say so. If he is on to something else?, then that is fine with me, but don't lead us down a path thinking he is on the same track

I would love to have JB come on here and tell me I am wrong, and show us his results, but I am not going to hold my breath

Okay? I hope I did not offend anybody

Best of luck to all

[NickZ]

I'm sure that John is reading all this and laughing, or not. This is his thread, and started for the purpose of expounding his work and ideas, and any others that may contribute. He is not far away. And will probably let you know his thoughts, sooner or later.
Yes, it's true that I'm on his side, and support him, as well as anyone else working on this.
We all have and are entitled to an opinion, and I just wanted to bring you up to date, on what has been done here, as you may not know.
I don't value anyone over anyone else, in the way that you mentioned, but when someone works hard and provides us with a way to replicate what is being shown, that, I do value, and will not just brush it away under the carpet.
As you are new to all this, you may have no idea of what I'm talking about.

So, let's not just keep throwing out more opinions, and start making something USEABLE, for all to share.
I value your thoughts as much any ones. But, the proof is in the pudding...
NickZ

[Allwest]

To All,

I have been making some cells, that when you put them in salt water they make Hydrogen

Put a lighter on the top of the hydrate water and fire crackers happen

Is this normal? and can you point me in the direction of others cells of same

Thanks!

[jehdds]

To All,

I have been making some cells, that when you put them in salt water they make Hydrogen

Put a lighter on the top of the hydrate water and fire crackers happen

Is this normal? and can you point me in the direction of others cells of same

Thanks!

Some of my cell variants using ZnO split water as well.
See this research also that shows piezoelectrochemical effect.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

Some of my cell variants using ZnO split water as well.
See this research also that shows piezoelectrochemical effect.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

Sorry forgot link:
Huifang XU, et al -- Zn Oxide photoelectrolysis
Jim