Bedini Earth Light

[b_rads]

@ b_rads

How are the bio-plastic cells doing? The Bio-plastic idea seems like a wonderful idea to make a cell out of.

Are you psychic or what! I am in the man cave replacing my router, when I looked over at the bio-plastic cell. It stopped powering the Penny Oscillator about a week ago, so I took it apart. Only a slight tarnish on the Mg and copper looks great. The bio-plastic filler is as hard as a guitar pick. It came apart very easily, worthy of further research. Not certain at the moment how long it functioned, will need to check my notes, impressive nontheless.

Good to here from you again IB

Nick, we might not find the solution we want but stranger things have happened. Remember the story of the "Slinky", it was not created to be a toy.
History of the Slinky Toy - Richard James and Betty James
We have been at this a long time Nick and learned much, mostly what not to do. Keep plugging at it my friend.

Brad S

[NickZ]

Ib2:
I'm just not of the same opinion, as we've heard this all before, many times.
Just because you say that your cell(s) which are made with Epsom salts/salt substitute and glue, which are all full of trapped water, are not galvanic, doesn't make them so. Even though they are cooked on the stove, they will further absorb water from the air, and a lot of it.
I have made your cells, in fact several of them, but they have poor current output, as a little piece of wire as the electrode doesn't do much for current output, or make them very usable comparatively. As compared to the 50 to 75 mAs, which my carbon/Al cells can and do still provide, I saw no point.

You saw how the video showed NO OUTPUT on the salt sub cell until water was added. Is this not an important result or finding? Means nothing?

You've made the bigger 5 foot version that shows more than a couple of micro amps. Is that not galvanic, I think that it surely is. You don't show that now, to show the wear on the magnesium ribbon. Or the cell like my hot dog cell that you also had made and painted blue, which I still have, and which is now full of holes and bubbles from where the hydrogen gas blew right through the glue in many spots.
As in little time the results from the higher output cells break-down will quickly show themselves.

I love your work, and always have, so lets just agree to disagree. The best thing is to show what you mean, as opinions are a dime a dozen. I will also put my ideas on the table for all to see, as I have before, as that is sometimes how we learn.
I give my opinion, when I hear something contrary, as I find that my cells are nothing but galvanic, I hate to say, as different from what I had thought years before, I wish they weren't, but they are.

Lidmotor also did a study of the cells that John provided him for testing, and also found galvanic break down behind them as well. But, I will not comment more on other peoples work, as it always gets me into these kinds of discussions

I still think that the idea of the "two semiconductor layers" as in a transistor , impermeable to electron flow, but permitting ION flow is the possible key, to avoiding galvanics. Then becoming like an ION VALVE CELL, instead, of one dissolving into mush.
To find the true reasons why these cells work, if other than the normal "chemical reaction" at the expense of the cells metals and electrolytes, is still very important work. And to make them of a useable and lasting output, even more so.
This is all very exciting work, after all, by what ever causes that make these cells function, they are still not something that you can just buy off the shelf.
I am not argueing, but have to state my opinion, you can think as you want, no one is trying to convince you.
Nick

[ibpointless2]

Ib2:
I'm just not of the same opinion, as we've heard this all before, many times.
Just because you say that your cell(s) which are made with Epsom salts/salt substitute and glue, which are all full of trapped water, are not galvanic, doesn't make them so, even though they are cooked on the stove, they will further absorb water from the air, and a lot of it.
I have made your cells, in fact several of them, but have poor output current output, as a little piece of wire doesn't do much for current output, or make them very usable comparatively. Compared to 50 to 75 mAs, which my carbon/Al cells can still provide still, I saw no point.
You saw how the video showed NO OUTPUT on the salt sub cell until water was added. This is not an important result or finding? Means nothing?
You've made the bigger 5 foot version that shows more than a couple of micro amps, and that they are not galvanic, but, is it. You don't show that now. Or the cell like my hot dog cell that you had before, and I still have, which is full of holes and bubbles where the hydrogen gas blew right threw the glue in many spots. As in little time the results from the higher output will quickly will show themselves.
I love your work, and always have, so let just agree to disagree. The best thing is to show what you mean, as opinions are a dime a dozen. I will also put my ideas on the table for all to see and and critizise, as as I have before, as that is sometimes how we learn.
I give my opinion, for what it's worth, when I hear something contrary, as I find that my cells are nothing but galvanic, I hate to say, as different from what I had thought years before. I wish they weren't, but they are.
Lidmotor also did a study of the cells that John provided him for testing, and also found galvanic break down behind them as well.
To find the true reasons why these cells work, if not by a chemical reaction is very important. And to make them of a useable and lasting output, even more so.
This is all very exciting work, after all, by what ever causes that make these cells function, they are still not something that you can just buy off the shelf.
Nick

@NickZ

You have never built my cells, you said so yourself. This is the exact words you said "I can't get Epsom here, I've looked for it, or the salt substitute. So, Sea Salt, or table salt is all I have to work with, so far. I'm sure results would be better by using them instead." Here's the link http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post185824

So once again how can you say my cells are galvanic when you can't get the supplies that make them work? The best you have ever done is make a glue cell with table salt in it and I have repeatedly told you not to do that because it doesn't work out. You can't compare my glue cells to your table salt cell they're not the same.

Plus I have made more than then glue cells, how about the pressure cells? The pressure cell never see water and only consist of salt substitute that is crushed in a tube of copper. The pressure cell JB made had voltage and it was climbing so to say it had no power is a outright lie.

You can't compare your hot dog cell to mine, I've told many times that using glue and table salt is a bad idea but you would not listen. Also i have proven my cells are not galvanic by taking them apart and showing all the metal underneath. Dissecting A crystal cell - YouTube

Also we been over this many times, just because Epsom salt has water in it does not mean the cell uses it. Stick your electrodes in a cup of Epsom salt and notice you get no voltage.

And don't bring up your carbon capacitor can cells up. You started off using the guts from a used battery so its no wonder that it works because you just back engineered a AA battery. Also you would use Sea sand which contained salt water. When someone reproduces your cell it doesn't work because they didn't cheat and add electrolyte from a used battery. Here's the link http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post159949

[NickZ]

Guys:
Ib: You have a good memory, but things do change, and I have found the different salts, but no longer make salt based cells.
As all the cells that I've made here in my humid sea side ambient, that combine salts with metals and are exposed to air, will show oxidation, and break down in time.
I have also made many dry carbon/Al type cells, that use no salts or beach sand,or any water, at all. And they do work, and are still working BUT, very, very weakly. Until they are wet, then they come to life. So, I've also given up on that "dry" cell idea, for now. but, I don't discard it yet.
Hydrogen gas needs to escape and vent, and/or be taken care of by a depolarizer. That was why I at one time used the recycled old battery materials which included a depolarizer. As there was no other practical way to obtain that chemical here. But, that is not an easy solution to be used or recommended, especially with hermetically sealed cells.

Two hundred years or more have passed and many many tests have been done with batteries and cells of different types. If there was an easy solution it would have been found.
In any case, I'm still very much interested in finding a true non galvanic semiconductor type cell, as I've repeatedly mentioned, and hope that it will someday exist.

For now I've been able to use my homemade cells to connect to the Slayer Exciter type oscillator circuits, and make them work even wireless.
So, that is what I'm working to develop and improve on now. As the Exciters circuits will work, even with these low current types of cells, or smaller solar panels, as an efficient source of voltage pressure to provide for wireless, or a one wire light transfer throughout the house.

Best wishes to all, and please forgive any rudeness on my part.
NickZ

[Slider2732]

You guys got me thinking, so I dug out a glue cell, from when we were sticking the ingredients between pennies (all seems a long time ago now, 9 months ?).

With a voltage reading of 0.617V and 40uA current, the cell below is still able to power up an LED blocking oscillator, with approx 5Hz flash rate.
It's one of those contentious Moretons Salt Substitute ones. Proof of picture date is why the signal meter from the SEC exciter thread is in the shot...my atomic clock blew up last week. This cell has lasted longer than that did !

[vintasalo]

@Nick's

Damn buddy, who pissed in your free energy Cheerios?? Hahaha.. you must has Dix's me about 5 times about a nail in the tree. None the less your missing the point. Everyone is trying to figure this all out together and you can't just get frustrated and take it out on everyone like step daughters you don't like!!

Every step taken is one step closer to the final product and people like JB are just out for themselves. Notice that their is a reason for free energy and the reason and solution is probably staring you right in the face. A nail in a tree provides evidence of energy everywhere.

Winners win due to their lack of giving up

[NickZ]

The only way to know for sure about any cell, is a long term test driving a real load. Until that is done AND REPLICATED, and shown, we can't tell what's what. No voltage or current readings are being mentioned,or a load test done.

About the nail in the tree, well I'm sorry about that. I'm just looking for more than a dim led and one mA of output. And this thread was going nowhere, silent, boring, and it's not me distracting it with something that has nothing to do with what we are doing here.
Some guys really want to get somewhere with all this.

[Allwest]

To all

Has any body tried using conductive ink on these cells?

How to Make Conductive Ink | eHow.com

[Allwest]

Another site

Make Conductive Glue, Conductive Paint, and Conductive Ink
Make Conductive Glue, Conductive Paint, and Conductive Ink

[Allwest]

@all;
Galvanic vs. Non-Galvanic cells? IMHO – we have yet to see a true non-galvanic primary cell. What we have seen, built, and tested are some galvanic cells that can be matched to a load which experience considerable long-lasting usefulness. My 3 water batteries have been powering a red LED, without a circuit, for 1 year and 8 months now. In my book, that is very impressive.

Look at water – it could almost be considered a perpetual motion machine. Hydrogen and oxygen bonds break to form gasses and recombine to form water. It is not perpetual due to the fact that another process must take place for this to happen, albeit sun (heat), pressure, kinetic, or some other force to initiate the action. Can we find a material that does this without any external force that can be tapped for energy? I do not know, but hopefully someone will find a way.

Even solar is not free! These can be very expensive systems to set up (solar panels, controllers, storage, etc) and they do not last forever.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with galvanic cells if we take them for what they are and are inexpensive to build, otherwise, buy the 12.5 cent AA battery from the dollar store. To recycle junk and waste into energy is a great place to start.

I have many different type cells prepared and sitting on a shelf ready to put into action should the need arise. What I personally would like to see is a better storage application for power when needed. Secondary batteries are typically not environmentally safe and expensive to replace and they do have built in losses associated. Hydrogen can be stored, but is still expensive to make and is volatile. Name any other method of power storage and they all have some kind of problem associated with them.

I am thankful to all the people that I have interacted with on this thread and have learned so much from everyone involved here. With the knowledge gained from this thread and others, as well as participating on other sites, I am at least gaining confidence in these technologies and more willing to be creative in this new hobby of mine. I hope this will continue to be a hobby and not a necessity.

Brad S

b_rads

You should check out this power storage device
Paper BATTERY invented at Stanford University. Paper+ink+nanotubes=INSTANT BATTERY. - YouTube

[b_rads]

b_rads

You should check out this power storage device
Paper BATTERY invented at Stanford University. Paper+ink+nanotubes=INSTANT BATTERY. - YouTube

@Allwest:
I saw this a while back, it looks very promising. Nanotechnology is probably where this technology is going. This tech appears to still be in its infancy, I hope this will be something people like us can replicate in our kitchen or on our workbench.

Anyone still looking for a good Joule Thief Circuit for testing might want to try this one. Lasersaber released his Mini Joule Ringer Circuit and specified this toroid.

Small Toroid Filter

I have replicated that circuit and it is very good. Also I have built a basic Joule Thief with this toroid and it is very simple and efficient. As of today, this basic joule thief has been running 24/7 for 7 full weeks. It consumes ¼ mA, the battery started at 1.54V and is now sitting at 1.31V. The cheap (12.5 cent Dollar Store) battery has been between 1.3 and 1.31V for the last several weeks. This is perhaps the best toroid I have used and it is already prewound. I used a 2n2222 and 100K resistor in the basic circuit.

Below is a picture of this as well as a night light I made using the same circuit. In the Night Light, I used a 100K trimmer pot so I can adjust the LED’s brightness as well as a push button on/off switch.

Enjoy, Brad S

[NickZ]

Brad:
Thanks for the update, I was wondering how that was going. That circuit reminds me of the one that Kooler did a couple of years ago. He built two different Jtc, that used the Hartley Oscillator circuits in them, which he believe to be feeding back to the battery. It must be so, otherwise how could a simple non-recharable battery, last so long, his three leds were very, very bright, not just barely shinning. Those two Jtc died when the batteries leaked, but after 5 and a half months time. He made two different circuits like this, so there is no coincidence, or mistake about it.

Slider has just made an Exciter circuit that is also feeding back to the battery. He is testing that idea now by placing a separate capacitor on the negative side leading back to the battery rail, and reading the voltage increasing on that, to prove the point.
I've also felt that some circuits are doing this, many in fact, and is the reason the battery and the devices are running as long as they have at times.

I have made and still use the low draw circuit that you suggested, it works good, but has not given me more that a few days light. This may have to do with the toroid that I'm using, and or the windings, so I've tried different ones to see if there is any change.
After what you've just mentioned, I'll pay even more attention to all this, in the future. As that is no small point.
You may want to change the batteries to rechargeable ones in the future, but not until the other ones fail, of course, as they are what is working so well, so far, and 12 cent for 7 weeks running is already a record, I think. At least cost wise.

One more thing, I'm now using that low draw circuit connected to my homemade cells, which is really working out well also, as that circuit does not tap and drain the cells as much as some other circuits. I'll also try the 100 k resistor on the base, as that may also be one of the key factors involved in the very long run time.
NickZ

[b_rads]

Nick:
I have made many Joule Thief's the last couple of years and this is the best for me so far. I can only attribute the success of this one to the toroid since I have made others using the same components.

1963 issue of Popular Mechanics.
Why haven’t these fuel cell’s hit our markets?

Fuel Cells: Electricity in a Promising New Package

These are some ideas I have been exploring for a while.

Brad S

Slider
Got to love the Flux Capacitor!!!!

[Slider2732]

Enjoyed that read Brad, thanks for posting
Clicking on the link to Page 208 at the bottom of the first page, shows discussion of a home made version of a bacteria cell.
I'd like to run some trials with such a thing....but have no real idea how to build the cell on the workbench. I would imagine the same sort of thing as the pills bottle water cells, with copper and steel electrodes, but, fill the bottle with household waste.
However, any water present in the waste would form a galvanic source of any derived output ?!

Really, I think we want one of these :

[vintasalo]

Another site

Make Conductive Glue, Conductive Paint, and Conductive Ink
Make Conductive Glue, Conductive Paint, and Conductive Ink

How about oil and graphite powder mix.. No water in oil to decay the negative cathode