Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

The Elmer's glue, potassium chloride, and Epsom salt cells are doing very well. These cells are placed on notebook paper and the notebook paper seems to absorb the water out and away from the cells. The crystals are drying very nicely. The best part of these cells is that they keep the voltage they start out with and take shorting out very well. They all start out around 560mV when first made and stay at that voltage even when they have dried. Giving them a load the voltage does go down but allowing the cell to rest brings the voltage back to where it was. The most amazing part of this cell is that it starts off at 560mV and when it dries it stays at 560mV, I never seen a cell do that. I also use copper and aluminium wires as my plates.

[b_rads]

Banana Batt

ibpointless2:
Come on Dude, you can’t just loft a softball out there; someone will take a swing at it.

Banana Battery – see below
I made 3 test cells with potassium chloride and white glue, also 3 test cells with banana chips and wood glue. Checking the voltage and current 3 hours after construction yielded the following results:
Potassium chloride/white glue - 0.718 to 0.749 volts and 4.8 to 5.5 ma.
Banana chips/wood glue – 0.881 to 0.922 volts and 2.3 to 3.2 ma.
Now, the really interesting part: the potassium chloride and white glue behaves just like the cement cells and other glue cell I have built. When short circuit is applied the current drops as well as the voltage. The banana cells did not do this, when checking current with short circuit – the meter goes directly to the reading and stays at that reading. When switching back to voltage, the difference is negligible from original reading. What is it that is allowing the ions to travel uninhibited through the dielectric polyvinyl acetate (wood glue). Is it because the banana is organic or is there an element or combination of elements allowing this?

Brad S

[NickZ]

B_rads:
Neat little test. What that may prove is that the banana is a better conductor of current as it may contain natural salts, minerals, or additional salts to keep the chips fresher. Hard to tell. If nothing is added to them, they would rot it time.
Wood glue is made from milk which also contains a high percentage of water, minerals, and other things as well, that are trapped inside, and are not able to totally dry out, especially in a few hours.
The real battery is in the copper penny and the aluminum foil. But the reason that the current stays steady on the banana cell is very, very important to know. Please exclude any salt on at least one of your tests, as we already know what will happen using any salt.

[ibpointless2]

ibpointless2:
Come on Dude, you can’t just loft a softball out there; someone will take a swing at it.

Banana Battery – see below
I made 3 test cells with potassium chloride and white glue, also 3 test cells with banana chips and wood glue. Checking the voltage and current 3 hours after construction yielded the following results:
Potassium chloride/white glue - 0.718 to 0.749 volts and 4.8 to 5.5 ma.
Banana chips/wood glue – 0.881 to 0.922 volts and 2.3 to 3.2 ma.
Now, the really interesting part: the potassium chloride and white glue behaves just like the cement cells and other glue cell I have built. When short circuit is applied the current drops as well as the voltage. The banana cells did not do this, when checking current with short circuit – the meter goes directly to the reading and stays at that reading. When switching back to voltage, the difference is negligible from original reading. What is it that is allowing the ions to travel uninhibited through the dielectric polyvinyl acetate (wood glue). Is it because the banana is organic or is there an element or combination of elements allowing this?

Brad S

Glad to see that you tired the banana idea. As for the Potassium chloride and white glue cells yes they do act like the concrete cells but try adding Epsom salt to the mix. I find that making potassium chloride, white glue, Epsom Salt cells to hold their voltage very well from when made to when dried.

As for the banana it is the ions, the ions have been key. The organic banana emits small amount of radiation which is the ions. I would love to know how you went about making these cells, I didn't expect banana chips but they seem to be working fine. If banana works try mixing some mashed potatoes to the mix.

[NickZ]

Ib:
As mentioned by Lidmotor, salt will give you the voltage, but ... whats the point, if it dissolves any metal.

[ibpointless2]

Ib:
As mentioned by Lidmotor, salt will give you the voltage, but ... whats the point, if it dissolves any metal.

Yes table salt would do that but not all salt is the same.

These glue potassium chloride and Epsom salts are amazing little things. I left one shorted out overnight and took the short off and within 30 minutes its back to its original voltage, I never seen a cell do this.

[b_rads]

As for the banana it is the ions, the ions have been key. The organic banana emits small amount of radiation which is the ions. I would love to know how you went about making these cells, I didn't expect banana chips but they seem to be working fine. If banana works try mixing some mashed potatoes to the mix.

There are probably many ways to build this test cell, and probably better ways than I chose, but this is what I did. I took the banana chips and ground them up in an old electric coffee grinder. Mixed 2 parts wood glue to 1 part banana, added a splash of distilled water to get a smooth creamy texture. Preheated my toaster oven to 350F and cooked the mix for 10 to 12 minutes, stirring only occasionally. This resulted in a very thick paste. I used galvanized sheet metal and a pre 1982 U.S. Penny as the electrodes and a ¼” tall pvc pipe for the form. Poured the banana/glue mix into the form and let it cool. After 24 hours the cells are still showing the same properties I stated before. There has been a slight drop in current, but not enough yet to worry about. This may be premature, but have you developed a cap/battery charging circuit yet? If so, would you be willing to share?

NickZ:
I looked at the package ingredients: banana, sugar, coconut oil, and natural banana flavoring. The nutrition facts state 0g Sodium. I did not add anything other than glue and banana chips. I should have used aluminum as it has a better electronegative difference than copper and zinc.

This is a really nice site to get your negativity values:
Dynamic Periodic Table go to properties and select negativity.

Brad S

[NickZ]

What is Epsom salt:
What Is Magnesium Sulfate?

It will still break down the metals. Try it on a shiny metal surface, and leave it overnight. Otherwise everyone would be using it, but there are drawbacks. It may take a while to notice the effect, so you may not see a reaction right away. Also depends on the concentration used.
Might also try stainless steel instead of one of the other metals.

2 b_rads: Thank for checking. Please keep trying to find the reason the cell does not drop in current when a meter is attached. Also if the cells can be connected in parallel. Those are the two problems facing cement cells.

[NickZ]

@b_rad:
If you can't find any aluminum to use, you can always cut an aluminum can, open or flatten out piece of can and sand it, might work for your tests. Remember it has a plastic coating.
Making cells using two different flat sheets of metals may also work, just put a cloth, or paper towel between them.

[ibpointless2]

What is Epsom salt:
What Is Magnesium Sulfate?

It will still break down the metals. Try it on a shiny metal surface, and leave it overnight. Otherwise everyone would be using it, but there are drawbacks. It may take a while to notice the effect, so you may not see a reaction right away. Also depends on the concentration used.
Might also try stainless steel instead of one of the other metals.

2 b_rads: Thank for checking. Please keep trying to find the reason the cell does not drop in current when a meter is attached. Also if the cells can be connected in parallel. Those are the two problems facing cement cells.

I know what you mean by the salt corroding the plates and I have seen it in other designs but with the latest designs I don't see it. Its as if the Glue acts like a barrier between the oxygen and the plates. Its the salts that you want because of they have a actual crystal structure to them. The salts are not hurting the plates.

If you don't want people use salt then why do you tell them to use beach sand, which contains salts?

[b_rads]

@b_rad:
If you can't find any aluminum to use, you can always cut an aluminum can, open or flatten out piece of can and sand it, might work for your tests. Remember it has a plastic coating.

I am a big fan of the Dollar Store. Give me five bucks and 30 minutes and I am as happy as a kid in the toy store. I have aluminum foil from there (offbrand) that is really thin. I have used this before and the nice thing is that galvanic interaction will eat through this stuff pretty quickly, Lets you know what is going on. It will be the weekend before I have a chance to try this again - but that gives me some time to think of different variables to play with.

I know what you mean by the salt corroding the plates and I have seen it in other designs but with the latest designs I don't see it. Its as if the Glue acts like a barrier between the oxygen and the plates. Its the salts that you want because of they have a actual crystal structure to them. The salts are not hurting the plates.

The glue does seem to act as a barrier - I have seen this in other glue setups I have tried. My hope is that by heating the mix and allowing some galvanic action to pass through that a minor electret effect can be seen. Time will tell.
Brad S

[NickZ]

Ib:
You can use all the salt you want. Epsom has been tried, just trying to save you effort. As you mentioned that you wanted long term batteries, and other people too. Sorry, I will not bother you again.

[NickZ]

All:
I have mentioned many times that I carefully wash any and all of the salt out of the beach sand, for a reason.

The beach sand cells invented by John Bedini, Lidmotor, and further improved on by myself are the strongest and longest lasting cells that use no salts, although he does use Alum, and other things. I don't.
John may have made some other cells that have higher current than those, without the use of salt, but he has not shown the current on them.
Any one that has made a cell that can be shown to have higher standing CURRENT than 70 mA., I'd be interested in hearing about it.
It's not that I don't want people to use salt. It's no skin off my nose.
Just tying to help to improve the outcome and results.

[NickZ]

Even though some may not notice oxidation inside the cell because it is sealed in by the glue, or by the cement. What happen instead is it will run up the wires, turning them black, and affecting all the connections or electrical components that it goes to.
The reason salts do work so well is that it does so, by the disintegration or giving off of the metal. Sealing the outer battery connections as well as any others with an airtight sealant may help. Like epoxy, silicon, or what ever works.
There are some of the same related problems, and solutions, as when dealing with or using lead-acid cells as a source.

[b_rads]

Even though some may not notice oxidation inside the cell because it is sealed in by the glue, or by the cement. What happen instead is it will run up the wires, turning them black, and affecting all the connections or electrical components that it goes to.

Very good idea to seal the electrodes and connections with a non-permeable material.
I do think the glue is a good way to protect the metals so long as it still allows ionic transfers. I have looked at Potassium ion channels today on the internet and the information is simply overwhelming. This process takes place in plants, animals, and people. I think this might also be what is happening in the banana battery. What better model can we mimic than that given to us through nature?
Brad S