Bedini Earth Light

[NickZ]

b-rads, IB, and All:
Thanks for the report.
I also made a salt glue blob cell, a bit bigger than Ib, just to see what happens when using just regular table salt. The blob cell which using a copper and aluminum wire for the electrodes barely moves my analog meter, maybe 0.3 to 0. 4 volts, at only about 10 Micro Amps, if that. So, I don't see the point, even when the blob was still wet and full of salt, these are about the weakest cells I've seen yet.
I am looking for a high current output, because I want them to be able to interact with the regular type of electronics circuits.
The Mg/Carbon cell, or aluminum/carbon cell will be my next project to try. If I can get the one amp output or close to it, I'll be very happy.

[ibpointless2]

So I let the latest glue cell that has been given a load sit with the load still on it as I went to work. When I left my house the cell was at 1.1mV across the resistor now when I got home from work it is reading 3.9mV across the resistor.

Even though the increase is small its in the right direction. The cell is recharging itself when given a load, this is ground breaking at any voltage.

This cell and the other one that is shorted out still don't show any corrosion and are still going strong.

[NickZ]

b-rads:
Sounds interesting, the autopsy results that is... The cell died of intemediary viral infection, without affecting the electodes. Another sad case...
Lets try the Mg/Carbon cell set up...

[b_rads]

Steel Wire Pancake Joule Thief

Here is a video of the LED circuit that I am now using on these weak but long lasting cells:

‪Steel wire - pancake coil-Joule Thief.ASF‬‏ - YouTube

Cheers,

Lidmotor

“Yipeeeee,” I cannot get the smile off my face!
Last night I replicated Lidmotor’s Steel Wire Pancake Joule Thief with a couple different components. I used a 2n2222, 1000uF 50V cap, and no 100 ohm resister connected to a cement cell (quikrete/beach sand/chromium oxide). Guys, this should not work, but it does. The voltage drop when connected to this circuit was only 0.025Volts. With the pot set at the lowest it could go, I measured 0.6uA. At this setting, the LED is still blinking. I left this connected overnight and the LED is blinking faster this morning. I did not have time this morning to take new readings. I can turn the pot up and get a solid white LED. Not the big light some are looking for, but a nice light nonetheless. Once again, Lidmotor pulls a rabbit out of the hat.
Brad S

[NickZ]

B-rads, Ib, and All:
I see the same effect on most all of the Jtc, as they get to a point of almost going out, they start to blink, and can do so for such a long time, that I got tired of waiting to see just how long it take for the led to go totally out. I do think that at that point they are producing their own juice, but if you raise the pot setting the led will go out.
Most cement cells are too weak to light an led with just one cell, as well as to get an oscillator going. But using the Hartley type oscillator that draws much less input, should work on just a few mA. I still find that it takes over 60 mA to get my oscillators going, but once the Jtc is running the current level can be dropped. Less than 50 mA will not fire my Jtc when using a cement cell, so it looks like it takes more to initiate the oscillations, than it takes to keep them going. Capacitors might help.
The point is to see if and how to upgrade the effect. As all batteries are draining when connected to the Jtc, but there may also be an anomaly that can be exploited there, although up to now not a very strong one.
Kooler was able to get his Backward Jt circuits running for 5 months on a 1.5 volt button cell. I was hoping to do the same when connecting his type of circuit to the cement cells. But I find that connecting the led direct to two cells provided the same amount of light intensity, as connecting the two cell to the Jtc. So no additional light was obtained from the Jtc to the cement battery connection. Only when using a single cell to light an led is there any advantage in the use of the Jtc. There may be some exceptions to this though.

On another note, it's been about 4 days since I made a glue-salt cell, and although the copper electrode is already showing signs of rust, where it is exposed to the air, the current levels are still going up. They started at just a few microvolts, and are now in the millivolt range, so it seams that they are still going up in current, but voltage is still about the same, 1/2 volt or less.
Although these cells as well as the Mg/Carbon cells are galvanic, and maybe even the cement and other types of cells as well. But similar to the lead-acid batteries, these can also produce a steady output for years, the difference is, these cells don't need to be recharged. Then why do the others???
Sanyo makes a type of battery that does not drain, with a three year or longer life cycle. That type of technology has probably already been known, even for many years, but up to now, not available.

[ibpointless2]

B-rads, Ib, and All:
I see the same effect on most all of the Jtc, as they get to a point of almost going out, they start to blink, and can do so for such a long time, that I got tired of waiting to see just how long it take for the led to go totally out. I do think that at that point they are producing their own juice, but if you raise the pot setting the led will go out.
Most cement cells are too weak to light an led with just one cell, as well as to get an oscillator going. But using the Hartley type oscillator that draws much less input, should work on just a few mA. I still find that it takes over 60 mA to get my oscillators going, but once the Jtc is running the current level can be dropped. Less than 50 mA will not fire my Jtc when using a cement cell, so it looks like it takes more to initiate the oscillations, than it takes to keep them going. Capacitors might help.
The point is to see if and how to upgrade the effect. As all batteries are draining when connected to the Jtc, but there may also be an anomaly that can be exploited there, although up to now not a very strong one.
Kooler was able to get his Backward Jt circuits running for 5 months on a 1.5 volt button cell. I was hoping to do the same when connecting his type of circuit to the cement cells. But I find that connecting the led direct to two cells provided the same amount of light intensity, as connecting the two cell to the Jtc. So no additional light was obtained from the Jtc to the cement battery connection. Only when using a single cell to light an led is there any advantage in the use of the Jtc. There may be some exceptions to this though.

On another note, it's been about 4 days since I made a glue-salt cell, and although the copper electrode is already showing signs of rust, where it is exposed to the air, the current levels are still going up. They started at just a few microvolts, and are now in the millivolt range, so it seams that they are still going up in current, but voltage is still about the same, 1/2 volt or less.
Although these cells as well as the Mg/Carbon cells are galvanic, and maybe even the cement and other types of cells as well. But similar to the lead-acid batteries, these can also produce a steady output for years, the difference is, these cells don't need to be recharged. Then why do the others???
Sanyo makes a type of battery that does not drain, with a three year or longer life cycle. That type of technology has probably already been known, even for many years, but up to now, not available.

I'm seeing crazy things too, but do want to try the joule thief thing too. If you can please post a pic of the glue cell copper corroding as i would like to see it. I find it odd that the copper is corroding as the other metal should be the one corroding away. The only cells that did that for me was when I try to charge them or I added alum. You did mention that the current is going up, this could be the reason why the copper is showing corrosion, as the copper will corrode when charging. But what's charging it? My glue cells are shorted out and some have a resistor load on them and show no corrosion, yet. I would like to know what you did as I can learn and make these cells better.

As for the glue cell that had the resistor load on it and the voltage started going up after it went down is now going down again and also back up. It seems to be fluctuating between .01mV and 3.9mV with a 620 ohm resistor on it. I can't explain it, I tried putting it in different locations but it keeps on bouncing around. I would say that the cell is more active during the day than at night when it comes to voltage. This DC current seems to be taking on a low frequency AC current.

[NickZ]

IB:
Why don't you make a dozen glue blobs on a piece of paper, and connect them all in series to see what happens, you might be able to get 3 or 4 volts that way, and be able to get an led or two blindingly bright. Try using flat plates instead of wire inside the blob cell. You can also try the candle holders cans as your cell, as in the picture, those are also cement cells, and they do last, but are weaker in current as they have much less surface area for electrodes.
The Hartley oscillator circuit may be the way to go. I'm in the process of converting all my standard Jt to the Hartley type, to see if there really is less draw. I've included a picture of one of my Backwards Jt, so that anyone can see the wiring of it.
On the glue cell- I did smash down both the copper and aluminum wire flat to have more surface area, like Lidmotor did. I'm sure that doesn't help with the rust. Now I'm getting about 12mA, still going up, not really that much rust as I wiped some off along with washing off the whole outside of the glue cell. I'll show it in a day or two. Very little oxidation on the aluminum electrode. I still think that these cells should be sealed air tight, with coated electrodes on the outside part the cell,
The mg/carbon cells may also benefit by the outside of mag wire coil being coated or painted with Elmers glue instead of an oil coated cloth, to help control the rust. Who knows, might be worth testing.
If we can slow down or even stop the corrosion, in any of these cells we'll be better off. As I think that is really the cause of the current drop over time, more so than the drying out of the water in the cells.

[b_rads]

Since I will be away from the work bench for the next week, I tried to take advantage of last night. I made a couple of IB’s glue cells with an anode treatment (magnesium ribbon soaked in mineral oil) using his glue formula as a control and a cell with copper sulfate to test the anode treatment. I will let you know how that works out. I also prepared casings for a couple new ideas that I will try when I get back to the bench.

Played with Lidmotor’s Steel Wire Pancake Coil Joule Thief with other cells I had on the bench. The tap water/copper/zinc cells with 3 cells in series has been lighting a 1.5V red LED for over a year. I connected a single cell to the circuit and was barely able to blink a 3V white LED (it did work though). A copper pipe/magnesium ribbon air cell performed very well with the circuit. A made a short video showing the circuit working off the cement cell. Please be kind, this is my very first video. I will try to do better next time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJJah_S5uCA

After taking this video, I placed a couple of magnets on the steel wire coil and the magnets seem to stabilize the current at 0.01 milliamps or more precisely 9.7 microamps. I do not know why this happened, but the voltage rose to 0.99 to 1.00Volts running the circuit while the standing voltage of this cell is 0.985Volts.

I will keep up with the posts for the next week and hope to catch up with bench experiments later. Happy experimenting,
Brad S

[NickZ]

I added the salt-glue cell and connected it is series onto my capacitor can cement cell, to see if the salt cell was actually putting out some juice. And, it did add to the light level of the led bulb, The cement cell will not light an led by itself, but along with the salt-glue cell the red led has been on at about 50% intensity since yesterday, although it started at about 70%.
I will show you in a day or two the discoloration and green oxide forming on the copper electrode. but it is working and is holding about 0.3 or 0.4 volts and 6 or so mA, unloaded.
B-rads the airtight sealing of these cells is something basic and is how any other battery is made. Oxygen should not be allowed break-down and affect the metals. You might try sealing them in e-poxy, as well.

[NickZ]

b_rads:
Nice little video, great start. Good to see someone else giving these cement cells a try, along with the different coils. What does the circuit led light look like at maximum draw? Can you light the led brightly?
Can you also mention more about the air cell and its output and other details.
I'm very interested in making the mg/carbon cells, but can't find the right materials yet. I wonder where they are getting the carbon rods, and mag ribbon.

[Lidmotor]

Replication

Since I will be away from the work bench for the next week, I tried to take advantage of last night. I made a couple of IB’s glue cells with an anode treatment (magnesium ribbon soaked in mineral oil) using his glue formula as a control and a cell with copper sulfate to test the anode treatment. I will let you know how that works out. I also prepared casings for a couple new ideas that I will try when I get back to the bench.

Played with Lidmotor’s Steel Wire Pancake Coil Joule Thief with other cells I had on the bench. The tap water/copper/zinc cells with 3 cells in series has been lighting a 1.5V red LED for over a year. I connected a single cell to the circuit and was barely able to blink a 3V white LED (it did work though). A copper pipe/magnesium ribbon air cell performed very well with the circuit. A made a short video showing the circuit working off the cement cell. Please be kind, this is my very first video. I will try to do better next time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJJah_S5uCA

After taking this video, I placed a couple of magnets on the steel wire coil and the magnets seem to stabilize the current at 0.01 milliamps or more precisely 9.7 microamps. I do not know why this happened, but the voltage rose to 0.99 to 1.00Volts running the circuit while the standing voltage of this cell is 0.985Volts.

I will keep up with the posts for the next week and hope to catch up with bench experiments later. Happy experimenting,
Brad S

@Brad
I'm glad that the pancake coil circuit worked for you. I made another one of these using another type of ferrous wire and it also worked but not as well. That phone wire might be hard for some people to find though. Your results are about what I got.

@Nick & IB
The basic cell design still has me puzzled. There are many different directions to go and it kinda depends on what you are trying to do. It is an ongoing study. I am on a trip right now but I have internet access. It is a sailing trip and I brought along a couple of projects to try out on the boat. One is a hybrid cement battery that I built months ago that is made out of a zinc electrical conduit connector, a short piece of copper pipe, and a cement mixture. Here is a video of it when I first made it back in March:

‪Lidmotor's Channel‬‏ - YouTube

I am using it as a night light in the boat head. Where I am right now it is pitch black at night.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[b_rads]

b_rads:
Nice little video, great start. Good to see someone else giving these cement cells a try, along with the different coils. What does the circuit led light look like at maximum draw? Can you light the led brightly?
Can you also mention more about the air cell and its output and other details.
I'm very interested in making the mg/carbon cells, but can't find the right materials yet. I wonder where they are getting the carbon rods, and mag ribbon.

NickZ:
Quote from Wikipedia on Mineral Oil:
“Mineral oil is used in a variety of industrial/mechanical capacities as a non-conductive coolant or thermal fluid in electric components as it does not conduct electricity, while simultaneously functioning to displace air and water. Some examples are in transformers where it is known as transformer oil, and in high voltage switchgear where mineral oil is used as an insulator and as a coolant to disperse switching arcs.[9] The dielectric constant of mineral oil ranges from 2.3 at 50 °C to 2.3 at 200 °C.[10]”

The reason I am looking at mineral oil is that it seems to have the same properties of glue as a dielectric while also attempting to remove air and water. This may not work, but I think it is worth a try.

With a AA battery and this circuit, I think you could experience permanent eye damage. Opening up the pot with the cement cell, I can project some nice shadow puppets on the ceiling.

Lidmotor and others have used water filters for the carbon with very good success and reasonably priced. The carbon rods can get a little pricey. I have had very good results using copper pipe. In my opinion, these are true galvanic and the output is determined by the electrolyte used. The more active electrolytes will exhaust the cell quicker than the less active electrolytes. Magnesium ribbon is used for lighting big time fireworks and explosives and can be purchased on ebay. The ribbon is not very expensive.

Thanks for the feedback Lidmotor, happy sailing.

Brad S

[NickZ]

I remember the conduit cell made by Lidmotor some months ago. Although it has does have quite a bit of mass in the copper tube, but still very little current. That is why I think that we need to imitate the plates that are found in regular lead-acid type batteries, and not straight tubes. As the only way to get more current is to use more surface area, instead of thicker material with less surface area. In anycase my two small candle holder cells have completely died, 0 volts, 0 mA. So, I will try the open bottom system on them, and since I can't get Alum here, I'll try it using sea salt instead.
If you keep going south from Catalina just a couple of thousand miles, I'll waves as you go by my house.

[NickZ]

Lidmotor:
In case you get lost if you see this point you'll know you're here, just hang a sharp left, and I'll bring out some beers. We can discuss beer can cells.
Nick

[ibpointless2]

I've tried making glue and Epsom salt cells or glue and Potassium Chloride cells but they never work as good when all are mix together. when they're separated I can only get around 100mV but when everything is mix together I get 500mV. Something about that mixture brings out the power.

As for corrosion I still see none on any of these cells. I got cells that are shorted out and one with a resistor load that will never reach 0 volts and goes up and down in voltage through the day, more voltage during the day than at night.

I really don't get why everyone else's cells show corrosion except mine especially when its the copper. The only way the copper would show corrosion is if you're charging the cell with a battery, which I don't recommend doing. The only other reason is the quality of copper being used and maybe the environment its in. If you guys could please post how you make your glue cells that would be great and where you get your copper at. thanks!