Bedini Earth Light

[b_rads]

Ive made one (without sodium silicate) and ive seen it producing 8mA. Perhaps with a better design than my prototype, they could output 100 mA?

Ive built lots of lasersaber earth batteries, and just a few crystal cells. Im paying a lot of attention to these crystal cells because they seem to be performing at least as well as my lasersaber reps.

No-one has convinced me yet that Hutchison cells contain water. Some kind of chemistry info about how how crystalline salts absorb water would be nice.

@seth,
I have been watching your posts and am very impressed with your work. About the chemistry of salts and their absorbtion of water, I highly recommend you look at this site.
General Properties of Salts, Salts Properties | Tutorvista.com
While not totally inclusive, I think you will see why the salt substitute and 20 Mule Team Borax were chosen for IB's cell. Hope this helps.

Added: @seth and all: IMHO we have yet to find the right mix to power these cells with the fuel of our choice. That fuel being anything other than galvanic and the eventual consumption of the cell. Hydroscopic mixes may well lead us to that end. I have experimented with encasing cells and have found the liquid plastic to be working extraordinarily well thus far. Encasing stabilizes the cell and to this point all are maintaining very well with absolutly no visable degradation of the metals. The alum cells were kept in the dark for 4 days and the voltage dropped slightly and the current dropped a lot. 2 hours in the sun and they were right back where they were before going in the dark. When we discover the "best build" encasing should be considered.
Brad S

[seth]

@seth,
I have been watching your posts and am very impressed with your work. About the chemistry of salts and their absorbtion of water, I highly recommend you look at this site.
General Properties of Salts, Salts Properties | Tutorvista.com
While not totally inclusive, I think you will see why the salt substitute and 20 Mule Team Borax were chosen for IB's cell. Hope this helps.
Brad S

You da man, Brad

Thanks

[seth]

Well....its not very positive info, but its info nonetheless....

Epsom salt - MgSO4, has a heptahydrate form (MgSO4.7H20). In its anhydrous state it readily absorbs water.

Rochelle salt has a tetrahydrate form (KNaC4H4O6 · 4H2O). I guess it too, readily absorbs water moisture.

These facts, and the jump in my mA from 2.4 to 3.3 on a wet day, lead me to conclude that MY replication is working just by galvanic action....

I cant believe i didnt once think back to the old blue copper sulphate turning white on the bunsen burner. Didnt the white stuff turn blue again in wet air???? I think thats the anhydrous salt returning to its hydrated (and blue) form. Basically completely explains whats going on here in the crystal cell - water absorption. And was my first ever chemistry experiment as a young lad!

What r your thoughts guys?

[ibpointless2]

Well....its not very positive info, but its info nonetheless....

Epsom salt - MgSO4, has a heptahydrate form (MgSO4.7H20). In its anhydrous state it readily absorbs water.

Rochelle salt has a tetrahydrate form (KNaC4H4O6 · 4H2O). I guess it too, readily absorbs water moisture.

These facts, and the jump in my mA from 2.4 to 3.3 on a wet day, lead me to conclude that MY replication is working just by galvanic action....

I cant believe i didnt once think back to the old blue copper sulphate turning white on the bunsen burner. Didnt the white stuff turn blue again in wet air???? I think thats the anhydrous salt returning to its hydrated (and blue) form. Basically completely explains whats going on here in the crystal cell - water absorption. And was my first ever chemistry experiment as a young lad!

What r your thoughts guys?

Yup, Galvanic reaction. All of our cells are running off the galvanic reaction, but I do have to say that we have almost perfected the galvanic reaction. I must say we have really pushed battery tech to a new level with our cells. The galvanic reaction is not really a bad thing but the ever-long idea to get rid of it has gotten away. If we get rid of the galvanic reaction we have no power, but we did push the envelope on the cells to where the galvanic reaction was almost gone.

The thing that made the galvanic reaction possible was water. We must consider that water was the true crystal and not the salts. Water was the mysterious mix in the cells that gave it life just like how water gives life to everything else. Water is a crystal, I remember watching a YouTube video of a guy pointing out that water was a crystal. He stated that the capillary effect was due to the water crystal's growing. Think about it when water freezes its in a crystal form. It was water that was the magical crystal.

[Lidmotor]

Agreement

Well....its not very positive info, but its info nonetheless....

Epsom salt - MgSO4, has a heptahydrate form (MgSO4.7H20). In its anhydrous state it readily absorbs water.

Rochelle salt has a tetrahydrate form (KNaC4H4O6 · 4H2O). I guess it too, readily absorbs water moisture.

These facts, and the jump in my mA from 2.4 to 3.3 on a wet day, lead me to conclude that MY replication is working just by galvanic action....

I cant believe i didnt once think back to the old blue copper sulphate turning white on the bunsen burner. Didnt the white stuff turn blue again in wet air???? I think thats the anhydrous salt returning to its hydrated (and blue) form. Basically completely explains whats going on here in the crystal cell - water absorption. And was my first ever chemistry experiment as a young lad!

What r your thoughts guys?

I agree. Yesterday when I was researching ALUM it dawned on me that these salt crystals were simply giving up the moisture contained their molecular makeup. The link that Brad gave really tells it like it is. This is basic chemistry going on. Today I did more testing with IB's new cell and really like it though. I made another one and to make it more usable I placed the cell between two thin pieces of cardboard and stapling the two together. I then left it in the sun for 5 hours to get hard and it has made a nice little cell. It will be interesting to see if the output goes up and down with changes in humidity and heat.
Sometimes the outcome of an experiment is not what we wanted but turns out better in another way.

Lidmotor

[ibpointless2]

I agree. Yesterday when I was researching ALUM it dawned on me that these salt crystals were simply giving up the moisture contained their molecular makeup. The link that Brad gave really tells it like it is. This is basic chemistry going on. Today I did more testing with IB's new cell and really like it though. I made another one and to make it more usable I placed the cell between two thin pieces of cardboard and stapling the two together. I then left it in the sun for 5 hours to get hard and it has made a nice little cell. It will be interesting to see if the output goes up and down with changes in humidity and heat.
Sometimes the outcome of an experiment is not what we wanted but turns out better in another way.

Lidmotor

Are you able to make a video? You make really good and interesting videos. I'm still testing my cell too, its been running my LCD clock for about 3 days. Its a nice simple cell.

[Lidmotor]

Updated video---"Water in a crystal--the Ibpointless cell"

Are you able to make a video? You make really good and interesting videos. I'm still testing my cell too, its been running my LCD clock for about 3 days. Its a nice simple cell.

OK IB--
Here is an updated video of your cell and the way I enclosed one in cardboard today.
I really do like this design that you came up with. We will just have to wait and see how long it stays alive.

Water in a crystal--The Ibointless cell.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor

[MonsieurM]

Yup, Galvanic reaction. All of our cells are running off the galvanic reaction, but I do have to say that we have almost perfected the galvanic reaction. I must say we have really pushed battery tech to a new level with our cells. The galvanic reaction is not really a bad thing but the ever-long idea to get rid of it has gotten away. If we get rid of the galvanic reaction we have no power, but we did push the envelope on the cells to where the galvanic reaction was almost gone.

The thing that made the galvanic reaction possible was water. We must consider that water was the true crystal and not the salts. Water was the mysterious mix in the cells that gave it life just like how water gives life to everything else. Water is a crystal, I remember watching a YouTube video of a guy pointing out that water was a crystal. He stated that the capillary effect was due to the water crystal's growing. Think about it when water freezes its in a crystal form. It was water that was the magical crystal.

indeed and thank you for the info check out http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-crystals.html , you'll find out that water can do things you never thought possible

ex: ferromagnetic ice ( thanks Dave )

sorry in advance for the load of info you'll be confronted with

[seth]

I agree. Yesterday when I was researching ALUM it dawned on me that these salt crystals were simply giving up the moisture contained their molecular makeup. The link that Brad gave really tells it like it is. This is basic chemistry going on. Today I did more testing with IB's new cell and really like it though. I made another one and to make it more usable I placed the cell between two thin pieces of cardboard and stapling the two together. I then left it in the sun for 5 hours to get hard and it has made a nice little cell. It will be interesting to see if the output goes up and down with changes in humidity and heat.
Sometimes the outcome of an experiment is not what we wanted but turns out better in another way.

Lidmotor

Yep - it certainly can explain the 2 things which got me excited about this cell. I was really happy to see the battery pump out more mA's after leaving it to rest for a few minutes - if I left it to rest for an hour it would double in mA!!! Now I understand, as it was running all night the salt becomes more and more anhydrous as the water molecules are spent oxidizing the electrodes. As such, the mA's and water content decrease. But if I leave it to ''rest'', actually Im leaving it in wet air so that the salt can reabsorb the water in the air back into its crystalline structure. So when I connect it to the load again it has become more hydrated, and there is more water available to oxidize the electrodes, and more mAs! Now I look at it, and its obvious really!

Secondly, shorting the battery can be explained in the same way - it dries the battery out as the water is spent in the galvanic reaction. When you open the short the mA's spring back as water is quickly reabsorbed back into the salt.

I still like this battery too - but I'm a little disapppointed about the galvanic explanation. I think I might have to go back to playing with Earth batteries as Im convinced that they CAN work in a way which ISNT galvanic - As long as the electrodes are far enough apart......

[ibpointless2]

Ok now I'm confused. I took a control cell which was water with copper and magneisum in it and froze over night with a glue cell and the latest crystal cell I made that you cook on the stove. I check the control cell first the next morning. The control cell was ice and it look like a crystal should. I was expecting since it was water it should still be a galvanic reaction and I also expecting that the water would expand which it did. To my surpise when I hook it to the meter I got barely any voltage, so it seems that ice would not make a good galvanic battery. So you need just water to make a good galvanic battery and not ice, this is important.

Here is the frozen water battery that produces little to no voltage Frozen Water battery - YouTube


Next I removed the other cells from the fridge. I was expecting the same thing from the control cell, expanded and no voltage. To my surpise these cells did neither. These cells did not expand and they still produced the orginal voltage. This has me puzzled beucase if water is the transfred median then when the cell is frozen the water in it should expand and crack the cell and the cell should not produce any voltage just like the control. These cell seem to defy logic as they are now the same size and are producing more voltage than what they started with. I thought they were heat sensitive and the hotter they got the more voltage but it seems the colder they get the higher voltgage you get too. These cells should not be working if water is the transfer median.

here's the video of the frozen crystal cells that should have expanded and not produce voltage because they contain water. Frozen Crystal Cells - YouTube

If these cells contain water shouldn't they produce the same effects as the frozen water battery? Is anyone able to repeat what i did?

[MonsieurM]

you forgot the role played by geometry and how the crystal form under influence of electromagnetic field

see http://www.energeticforum.com/150770-post244.html

[ibpointless2]

The frozen water battery is now melting and now since water in a liquid form is present it can now produce voltage. here's a video of that.

Frozen water battery melting - YouTube

So if water is frozen it can't make a galvanic reaction so why does the crystal cell produce voltage when frozen too? The glue cell and the stove cell shouldn't produce a voltage because its frozen too but it does.

[seth]

Ok now I'm confused. I took a control cell which was water with copper and magneisum in it and froze over night with a glue cell and the latest crystal cell I made that you cook on the stove. I check the control cell first the next morning. The control cell was ice and it look like a crystal should. I was expecting since it was water it should still be a galvanic reaction and I also expecting that the water would expand which it did. To my surpise when I hook it to the meter I got barely any voltage, so it seems that ice would not make a good galvanic battery. So you need just water to make a good galvanic battery and not ice, this is important.

Here is the frozen water battery that produces little to no voltage Frozen Water battery - YouTube


Next I removed the other cells from the fridge. I was expecting the same thing from the control cell, expanded and no voltage. To my surpise these cells did neither. These cells did not expand and they still produced the orginal voltage. This has me puzzled beucase if water is the transfred median then when the cell is frozen the water in it should expand and crack the cell and the cell should not produce any voltage just like the control. These cell seem to defy logic as they are now the same size and are producing more voltage than what they started with. I thought they were heat sensitive and the hotter they got the more voltage but it seems the colder they get the higher voltgage you get too. These cells should not be working if water is the transfer median.

here's the video of the frozen crystal cells that should have expanded and not produce voltage because they contain water. Frozen Crystal Cells - YouTube

If these cells contain water shouldn't they produce the same effects as the frozen water battery? Is anyone able to repeat what i did?

I dont think the crystal cells ''freeze''. I think the hydrated salt just remains a hydrated salt in cold temperatures. In hot temparatures it will dry out and become anhydrous and stop working. But in cold temps the crystal will still contain the water molecules tightly packed in its crystal lattice. It will not change structure in the freezer. So, when you take it out the freezer its still possible to feed off those water molecules - they are just sitting in the crystal waiting for a metal electrode to come along and get them moving.

MgSO4.7H2O remains the physically and chemically the same in the freezer.

The water cell is different because it truly does freeze. And when frozen the H+ ions and OH- ions are unable to move and corrode those electrodes.

Water changes its physical state in the freezer.


Thats how I understand your results. They make sense to me, and confirm the galvanic action at the basis of this battery.

[minoly]

I dont think the crystal cells ''freeze''. I think the hydrated salt just remains a hydrated salt in cold temperatures. In hot temparatures it will dry out and become anhydrous and stop working. But in cold temps the crystal will still contain the water molecules tightly packed in its crystal lattice. It will not change structure in the freezer. So, when you take it out the freezer its still possible to feed off those water molecules - they are just sitting in the crystal waiting for a metal electrode to come along and get them moving.

MgSO4.7H2O remains the physically and chemically the same in the freezer.

The water cell is different because it truly does freeze. And when frozen the H+ ions and OH- ions are unable to move and corrode those electrodes.

Water changes its physical state in the freezer.


Thats how I understand your results. They make sense to me, and confirm the galvanic action at the basis of this battery.

shouldn't it still freeze at some point, even if it is at a lower temp?
we're not talking "super freeze", just a nice slow freeze. at some point the water will freeze. I have my cells in a sub zero F freezer right now.
true test will be if the magnesium is eroding, which we will all see in time.

Patrick

[ibpointless2]

shouldn't it still freeze at some point, even if it is at a lower temp?
we're not talking "super freeze", just a nice slow freeze. at some point the water will freeze. I have my cells in a sub zero F freezer right now.
true test will be if the magnesium is eroding, which we will all see in time.

Patrick

Yes it should freeze at some point even if it has salts in it, the proof is glaciers in the ocean.

I'm going to retest my cells with a sub zero deep freeze. I'm going to do distilled water cell, a salt cell, a salt substitute and Epsom salt cell, and the glue and stove cell too.

From my understanding is if the cells use water as the median then frozen cell will not work as the water in a solid form will not allow a galvanic reaction. If the cell works even when frozen then something else is the median.