Bedini Earth Light

[tecknomancer]

thanks Michael

@ Tecknomancer

You can obtain Magnesium foil plate here 049 - Magnesium Foil (One Roll) - GalliumSource

Good Luck
Mike

saved me some time

[tecknomancer]

plate size

My Mg was positive in one prototype too. John Hutchison mentioned this, and its mentioned in TT Browns notes. I have no idea how Mg or Aluminium could be positive in relation to Carbon. In fact, it goes against everything that I understand about chemistry.

Any explanations?

The surface area seems to effect the plates, it easy it calculate flat plates , but round and odd shapes it not so clear, maybe try to estimate the surface area that is in contact with the mixture an see if that is why. just a thought, because a cell works due to the potential difference between the plates. a small deference may also reduce the potential milliamps under load

[NickZ]

Slider, Ib and All:
I opened up a Panasonic AA battery and removed (very easily) the thick 4 mm carbon rod found in the center, which is about 2 inches long, and of perfectly re-usable quality.The rest of the black stuff was the magnesium dioxide which I did not use, as it does not have the same qualities as the carbon found in the zinc carbon batteries. The carbon in Duracell AA has worked the best so far, with the new cells having 1.7 volts and 60 mA. Duration tests are in the works now.
The bigger the capacitor can used the higher the current, just like on regular batteries. I even made a tiny cell cell 1/4 " by 3/4", and it also has almost a volt in it, but only 3 mA.
Now I am able to produce the same voltage or even higher than a brand new AA, (as a single AA will not light an led). These new cells will light a red led bulb, And have current outputs that lasts much longer, although at a lower 40 to 60mA levels.
I would like to see 500 mA or higher outputs, but, without the galavanics and the use of salts, acids, or other caustic or radioactive things involved this may not be possible.
It's not that I'm complaining about lack of current in the cells, it's just that I'm not looking for just milliamps of power. But to pile or connect several cells together to be able to get some useful power therefrom.
I am still looking for clean usable sources of carbon to use in the cells, as the carbon in the batteries has got caustic things in it also. Which the carbon rods are totally unaffected by it, but the aluminum cans can get pitted.

If you initially jump charge your cells, it's better to not do it for more than a few seconds. I am not doing it anymore, as I don't need to

Carbon still seams to be best electrolyte as well as the best anode, so far. As it is a carbon crystal, and works well with quartz crystal, similar to the polycrystalline idea, and neither of the two will rust or oxidize, when one crystal is activated by the other crystal. And will produce more juice when combined together than just by themselves. This may be related to the two different metals principal, and why that works, as these two different crystals may also work the same way, and for the same reasons.

IB: There may be more than just positrons, electrons ,or Ions, moving between poles, as Aether is still unmeasurable. And current science does not even accept the fact that is even exists. They are only designing closed circuit systems, that do not rely on ambient local energies.
If you use two Same Metals of the same exact size, you get current similar to what can be found in a rock, a tree, or yourself. Only by varying the electrode plate size in the electrodes of the same metals, will there be any Flow of Currrent, and not just a tiny amount of voltage. What you may be reading on the meter, is something like static electricity going through the Same Metals, which shows you that there is such a source of this power available. This can be going on at the same time the regular galvanic chemical reactions are working at the expense of the "sacrificial cathodes". But this static +like charge is weak, and mostly unusable for our purposes. Or, is it??? Point being: the two different metals are producing both the voltage and the current by means other than galvanic reaction, also. But galvanics will always be present, unless there is NO oxygen or water in the cells.
If dry cells are all sealed up, there won't be much oxidation going on inside, similar to what happens with your white glue cells once they are "dry as a rock". But, galvanics are still at play, as oxygen as well as water is still trapped inside the cell, although the oxidation factor is reduced to usable levels, and there is hardly no current involved, to wear down the metals.
Rocks aren't really dry either, as even crystals contain water molecules trapped inside of their structure.
Most all new batteries and capacitors are hermetically sealed, for a reason...

[Slider2732]

The heating allowing the flow makes much sense. That test forms another 'dead' test, if the cell sits at the same voltage...which is another thing, nearly every cell here still will show at least 0.4V, right back to a couple of months ago when I started. mA might be zero, but voltage is always there.
If only we could run things on purely voltage, though, as a use within comparator circuits even the dead ones have much promise.

That little carbon rod cell is at 1.326V today...if I leave it for 3 years it might get to mains voltage
Here's a tip with the cap can cells though, which I hope is of use.
Dremmel off the top of the cap, at the ridge point where it looks crimped. Push through the rubber seal from the Dremmel'd off top and discard the ring of metal.
Split the seal in half with a sharp knife.
The bottom piece can now go into the can and form the bottom stopper for the carbon (or other) electrode.
Push your rod through one of the top piece holes and put a drop of CA glue or epoxy on the other hole to seal that.
Now, when your chosen mixture is inside the can, the top piece will fit cleanly to the top, it looking just the same as when it was a capacitor.

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is a Zn02 Pile cell using CARBON/Mg.
Zn02/EPSOM SALT/ Galina, Iron pyrite,TiO2 DOPED.
Zn02 Pile Cell.mov - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

GUYS,
Here is a review of TEST cell #2 and #4. Zn02, Epsom, Galina, Iron PYRITE, AND TI02 as doped on MG electrode as crystal nidus.
#2 Bounces back despite prolonged shorting.
Tests will follow on Cell #4.
REVIEW OF TEST CELLS #2 and #4 ZN02 EPSOMS.mov - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[seth]

The surface area seems to effect the plates, it easy it calculate flat plates , but round and odd shapes it not so clear, maybe try to estimate the surface area that is in contact with the mixture an see if that is why. just a thought, because a cell works due to the potential difference between the plates. a small deference may also reduce the potential milliamps under load

I was under the impression that current depended on size of plates and distance between them. And I thought voltage was wholly determined by the electronegativity of the metals involved. I didnt think it was possible for Mg to be positive in relation to carbon just because as elements, Mg likes to lose electrons and Carbon likes to gain them. If me and slider measured right (and Im really not sure we did!) Mg/Al are doing the opposite of what the electronegativity series says they should do. And that just goes against the whole periodic table, atomic structure and everything else that just seems to make so much sense and is the basis of chemistry.

This doesnt happen to normal batteries, does it? Has anyone ever seen a ''pole flip'? - if anyone sees the pole flip again - get it on film. It's a weird effect and its certainly not just us.

[NickZ]

This may partially explain why metals can change polarity:
Explain why an atom with a high ionization-energy value is ot likely to form a positive ion

I don't think that it really matters though, as the polarity change may not be anything permanent in relation to these cells.

[seth]

This may partially explain why metals can change polarity:
Explain why an atom with a high ionization-energy value is ot likely to form a positive ion

I don't think that it really matters though, as the polarity change may not be anything permanent in relation to these cells.

How?

Its a link which basically explains electronegativity in terms of ionization energy. Its saying the same thing that chemistry books always say. Magnesium likes to lose electrons. Carbon likes to gain. (Mg electropositive, low energy of ionization, C electronegative high energy of ionization) Thats how I read it anyway. Maybe Im not seeing the subtle nuances.

I could understand how one Mg atom in a mole of Mg atoms might manage to gain an electron and work differently than the rest and do something thats energetically unlikely. But a majority? enough to flip the polarity of the whole cell? Whats all that about? Doesnt seem right to me.

[NickZ]

Ultimately the Mg will be the cathode, and carbon will be the anode. Changing the combination of metals can affect the way they react, but carbon and magnesium will ultimately resort to their known polarities. If you see a long term polarity change, that would be different.

[Slider2732]

Well for sure i'm going to verify what happened with the capacitor carbon cell. I didn't think there was anything to it really...though sometimes am helped and not hampered by not having a clue about much

The personal theory, was that when first made, a cell structure will be different to when spiked or when thoroughly cooled down after many hours.
At first, the carbon with its lack of metallic polarity, isn't as strong a pull to ions as the aluminium is. The aluminium therefore becomes the positive.
However, once the elements of the crystal have settled, defined and shaped, the reversal comes into effect. The alignments go with traditional theory, the aluminium becoming the negative polarity, as it should be.
The carbon, in this situation, is perhaps considered a floating polarity until the mixture takes on its final form
I am 99% likely to be wrong, but there ya go.

[ibpointless2]

"Solid-state ionics is the study of solid electrolytes and their uses. Some materials that fall into this category include inorganic crystalline and polycrystalline solids, ceramics, glasses, polymers, and composites. Solid-state ionic devices, such as solid oxide fuel cells can be much more reliable and long-lasting, especially under harsh conditions, than comparable devices with fluid electrolytes.[1]
Current research in solid state ionics includes primary and appllications research in Asia and largely automotive industry driven research in the United States and Europe. Some applications research in America is being underwritten by the Department of Defense."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_battery


So it seems that the DoD has it hands in "crystal battery" research. Odd don't you think?

[ibpointless2]

@ John Bedini,

Haven't heard from you in awhile wondering how are things going with your latest crystal cell?

I think You might be on to something with your latest crystal cell where you melt the mix onto ONE of the electrodes. You can then lay the mix onto the copper and get voltage. Experimenting with this idea I take one of my original old crystal glue cells and I touch my electrodes (copper and magnesium) to the outer hard case of the dried "electrolyte" and I'm able to get a voltage that is nearly the same as if it was place in between the cell "electrolyte". This is truly amazing!

This open many new doors. This also points out that the electrodes don't need to be in the "middle" where the water would be, they can be touching the electrolyte mix on the surface where its touching the outer crystal skin. This could also mean that many electrodes could be placed in the same "electrolyte" mix without affecting the other electrodes.

[Slider2732]

Many electrodes...if the lattice is between the electrodes then that would make sense. We just got used to using the 2

Perhaps related - I tried a simple epsom salts and glue mixture today, with graphite as one electrode and carbon as the other.
It produced 14mV, but then I zapped it with 12V and up the voltage went to 0.590V, though only a couple of microamps.
It's sat there for a few hours at least up to now.

No traditional metals !
The graphite ends up as the positive, the carbon as the negative.
Now, think about that when the carbon rod/aluminium cells have the carbon end up as the positive.

[John_Bedini]

Ions and Protons

Ibpointlass,
Sorry been busy getting an understanding of what is going on with the Ions and Protons. It is possible to make a crystal battery that does use water, yes water. The reason I say this is that if the Ion is bouncing between electrodes you will notice no Ionic action. Let me explain it this way, if the Ion approaches the electrode and the cell reverses fast the galvanic action can not take place only electrons move then and is gathered by the electrode. The Ion continues to move then towards the other plate but just as it approaches the electrode it reverses and moves the other way, and again only the electrons are attracted to the electrode. Some here may have seen the cells they are working on reverse this is normal to have happen. Again the trick is keeping the ion's in a state of bouncing between electrodes, like a loop. If you can do this the galvanic action is stopped.
John B