Bedini Earth Light

[seth]

@Allen

Thanks for the suggestion concerning pure sodium hydroxide pellets. I need to have a complete plan of what I'll do with them before I give it a try in the garage outside....So...

do you suggest using them with the classic epsom/rochelle 2:1 mix? Should I add the NaOH to the Al cap can before I add the salts? Should I heat the whole mixture to molten? Should I use pyrite or Galena as doping agents? Just a few questions that werew running through my mind. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer

My Al cap can cell still (only just!) lights the LED on my exciter this morning. It has dried considerably, but the voltage has dropped to 1.5, and the current start at 10mA and quickly decreases.

[seth]

When I charge my cell with 12V a simple electrolysis reaction takes place. The electrolysis is of the water which is trapped in the molten salt crystals. Water in the air is also attracted into the crystal because the salt is a dessicant. When you charge the cell hydrogen bubbles away rapidly and in great amounts, suggesting that there is a large amount of water present in the cell (after heating it to melting point.)

Im sure the gas is hydrogen because if I put my lighter close to the cell when its charging I get the familiar POP! of the hydrogen exploding. Its pops every second or two....a lot of hydrogen is released in this process.

Conclusion

Heating epsom/rochelle salts doesnt get rid of the water for long. This is because they both like to absorb water from the air and do it very rapidly. They work as dessicants and suck water into the crystal, and will continue to do so until they are saturated with water.

[NickZ]

Seth:
Your cell is a combination of several of the ideas. Nice.
If you make bigger capacitor cells you'll have higher current too, as current is dependent on surface area, voltage is not as dependent on size. But the leds need current also, to light up 100%.

My cells still work fine, even after a couple of weeks of constant all night and all day lighting of a single white or red led. John says that I don't give them a heavy enough load, but I do, as any more load and the led won't light.
If you use a small capacitor cans to make your cells, you will get small results, with no stable current output. The drop in current is to be expected, as your electrodes are tiny, as well as the electrolyte mix.
Your cell will act as a drained AA battery, showing voltage but no usable or stable current.
The way to go is to use or make more cells, as well as much bigger cells, that will produce current. As an oscillator just ups the voltage at the expense of sacrificing the little current that a small cell can have. And some current is needed, to see a bright leds.
If current were not needed, the cells could be made of much smaller size, but Current output is dependent on Mass and the type of the electrodes used, as well as the working efficiency of the electrolyte materials.
If a bigger capacitor can cell using quartz/carbon electrolytes and a carbon rod center anode, won't light a red led on its own, then that cell is not made optimally. As it is possible to light a red led with a single cell. And in comparison, it's not possible to light an led with new 10.000 mA 1.5 volt D size battery.
To see a 4 volt led bulb light up bright, you'll need about 6 volts, or higher voltage, as the current in these cell is low, and the voltage will drop down to 1/2 its starting voltage, when under load. Point being, that more cells are better...
A Prolonged (5 min) charging can cause an electrolysis reaction that can deteriorate the cells. You can First check to see what the cells will do without the jump charge. But in anycase, more than a 10 second jump charge is not needed, as these cell don't really need to be polarized, at all. They produce good results from the get go, but do need to be sealed. Even the carbon can absorb moisture. And probably should be heated and totally dried first before using it.
The way to avoid galvanic deterioration is to avoid oxygen, which is in water, in the glue, as well as in all the salts. But like Brad and others have been doing, the hermetic resin casing seams like a good way to go. And the led light can be incorporated into the resin, as well.
That cell may not last "forever", but it may well be, that it will outlast the owner, and still be lighting up for his kids, even after he is dead and gone.

[ibpointless2]

John Bedini,

Lets say you take a diode, any semiconductor diode, and since it has the same metal for the cathode and anode and replace it with copper and aluminum or any dissimilar metals; do you think that it would produce a voltage? Could these dissimilar diodes be manufactured so that they produce power. Is this battery that you talk about, is this like Marcus Reid's idea?

thanks.

[Michael Kishline]

@Radiant1

You can get Mg sheets hear 049 - Magnesium Foil (One Roll) - GalliumSource

You can get Rochelle salts here http://www.alfa.com/en/GP140W.pgm?ta...e tetrahydrate

or from John B. since our in the area.

Good Luck
Mike.

[everyidea]

@Radiant1

You can get Rochelle salts here http://www.alfa.com/en/GP140W.pgm?ta...e tetrahydrate

Mike.

For those trying to buy from alfa aeser, you will have to have a non residential address and be a business that would need these chemicals in order for them to ship it to you. Yes, they check. They denied my order, seams they don't like garage chemists.

@JB, could you have Rick stock these chemicals at Renascence to buy online?

rw

[Michael Kishline]

Hey John B. thanks for everything buddy! I really appreciate all that you do!
It's not said enough.

FYI here's a little cheaper source for Sodium Silicate "Water Glass". Sodium Silicate - CQ Concepts

Good Skill
Mike

[Michael Kishline]

Rochelle Salts

For those trying to buy from alfa aeser, you will have to have a non residential address and be a business that would need these chemicals in order for them to ship it to you. Yes, they check. They denied my order, seams they don't like garage chemists.

@JB, could you have Rick stock these chemicals at Renascence to buy online?

rw

everyidea try this site for photography Rochelle Salt Buy

Mike

[John_Bedini]

Crystal Cells (Marcus Reid)

Ibpointlass,
Diodes are manufactured in a much different process then what we are doing, yes I have tried what you suggest but it did not work very good. I can do it with a doped piece of glass and the correct doping, just like the video you posted.
I do not want to be accused of giving you all a bum steer so I will just say this one more time. I do have a relationship with Marcus Reid, this is a now a known fact.

I have been testing his cells for days now and they work as he says. They do not go down in voltage in any way. I know the process to do it but wonder if I even want too. Sodium Silicate is dangerous to work with even if I have the equipment to do it. Everybody here has no idea what he does to make these cells, it's not what you think it is. The mixtures are completely different in his newer cells so it's going to be a problem. I do not want to talk about it because it can not be done on a kitchen table it takes to many hours to allow things to change from one thing to another, timing is very important in all of this.

If it's built incorrectly it does not hold up and it is dead in a short time. The Reid cell use two very special built semiconductors they are the opposite of each other when the cell is in operation. The water in the cell is locked up and can not do anything so no Ion movement is possible at all. The only thing moving are electrons in a loop, it plays the same tune over and over again.

The next thing is that it can reverse it self if it needs to, it can also be shorted for years as the energy moves into the cell until the short is removed. it can also adjust to any impedance placed on it. so I would say Allen is in for a big thrilling experience here.

One other important thing here is that it can reverse and then adjust itself for the proper direction of electron flow, so current goes high and holds then cell reverses current goes low and Led turns on. the cell can look like a Schottky Diode on one end and a reverse diode on the other end, and they can switch. so call all of this B.S but do not say I did not tell you so.
Good luck to all trying to build this cell.
John B

[radiant1]

re: John and Seth

John
We are up in the Athol area. We need Rochelle salt, and if Magnesium sheets work better than aluminum sheets then that too.

Seth
How much power were you putting into what size cell when you melted everything? You probably need to change your power to area ratio like having too small of a fuse.
Alan

[jehdds]

John,
What in your estimation is the benefit of using Rochelle salts over
Zn02? Have you made or tested any Epsom/Zn02 type cells?
Is this sub par in your estimation for material compared to Rochelle etc?
Thank you for the insights again.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[seth]

John
We are up in the Athol area. We need Rochelle salt, and if Magnesium sheets work better than aluminum sheets then that too.

Seth
How much power were you putting into what size cell when you melted everything? You probably need to change your power to area ratio like having too small of a fuse.
Alan

You misunderstand - nothing melted. It shorted. When you put high voltage into a pair of electrodes which are immersed in electrolyte, the HV just shorts. I mean that the electrodes cant charge because the + 12Kv is connected directly to the - 12Kv.

So how will you charge the electrolyte with HV?

[mikrovolt]

Being right there with an inventor is a privilege and requires some restraint
and patience when revisions are made.

Giving a bum steer is an idiom that conveys an idea that the group is being misguided. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead is a famous quotation of naval history it can mean a strong resolution to push forward with a mission having more importance than concern for casualties. Proprietary is often related to Bill Gates source code and hardware entangled loops that slowed the progress of Linux. The phone call to lidmotor that only labs can do this is mostly true, that as the thread progressed toward understanding, better crystals and solid state that more than kitchen variety materials and equipment were needed. This later more exotic forms are also of interest to the group as I understand it.

Please be careful that clever words are not used as we cannot interact face to face the import is lost and it could color someones character in a bad light.

[b_rads]

I have been testing his cells for days now and they work as he says. They do not go down in voltage in any way. I know the process to do it but wonder if I even want too. Sodium Silicate is dangerous to work with even if I have the equipment to do it. Everybody here has no idea what he does to make these cells, it's not what you think it is. The mixtures are completely different in his newer cells so it's going to be a problem. I do not want to talk about it because it can not be done on a kitchen table it takes to many hours to allow things to change from one thing to another, timing is very important in all of this.John B

John:
With all the respect you deserve, I admire your attitude here and the reality check. This is not a direction I wish to pursue, after all this is just a hobby for me. This is the direction I enjoyed and will follow:

http://changingpower.net/articles/battery-can-run-on-mountain-dew/

If I cannot get my materials in a consumer friendly environment locally, and make in my limited work space, then I do not need to go down that road. My greatest pleasure has been lighting LED’s with simple cells and making circuits to run those cells. Possibly, my expectations are too low. Growing, cooking, mixing and gluing this stuff is a blast. In my opinion, the less fortunate of the world will benefit greater from the simple and cheap technologies than those they have no chance in doing. I admire the sophistication many of you have brought to this endeavor. Just one mans opinion.

Brad S

[John_Bedini]

Rachelle Salts

Radient1
Your 15 minutes from me, do you know where I'm at?
I will give you some Rachelle Salts, magnesium sheets I do not have, but I have round slugs.
John B

Ibpointlass,
Diodes are manufactured in a much different process then what we are doing, yes I have tried what you suggest but it did not work very good. I can do it with a doped piece of glass and the correct doping, just like the video you posted.
I do not want to be accused of giving you all a bum steer so I will just say this one more time. I do have a relationship with Marcus Reid, this is now a known fact.

I have been testing his cells for days now and they work as he says. They do not go down in voltage in any way. I know the process to do it but wonder if I even want too. Sodium Silicate is dangerous to work with even if I have the equipment to do it. Everybody here has no idea what he does to make these cells, it's not what you think it is. The mixtures are completely different in his newer cells so it's going to be a problem. I do not want to talk about it because it can not be done on a kitchen table it takes to many hours to allow things to change from one thing to another, timing is very important in all of this.

If it's built incorrectly it does not hold up and it is dead in a short time. The Reid cell use two very special built semiconductors they are the opposite of each other when the cell is in operation. The water in the cell is locked up and can not do anything so no Ion movement is possible at all. The only thing moving are electrons in a loop, it plays the same tune over and over again.

The next thing is that it can reverse it self if it needs to, it can also be shorted for years as the energy moves into the cell until the short is removed. it can also adjust to any impedance placed on it. so I would say Allen is in for a big thrilling experience here.

One other important thing here is that it can reverse and then adjust itself for the proper direction of electron flow, so current goes high and holds then cell reverses current goes low and Led turns on. the cell can look like a Schottky Diode on one end and a reverse diode on the other end, and they can switch. so call all of this B.S but do not say I did not tell you so.
Good luck to all trying to build this cell.
John B