Bedini Earth Light

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is another test.
mini Zn0 Test Cell - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[NextGen1967]

Tested and True. The water conducts and creates a voltage. That is via Galvanic correct? The essential question is that is what is happening at the interface layer if it is galvanic or other. Please feel free to share your thoughts on this. After all this is an open forum and all will benefit with insights. I would rather have you mention your view than my repeating it.
Is the interface layer a protective "filter" that allows for voltage without the concomitant deterioration of the magnesium? That is the question.
Very Best Regards, and thank you for your insights to be sure.
Jim

<That is via Galvanic correct?>
Hmnmm, Well, It depends on ones view, but I would tend to say NO -at least not for the magnesium electrode part-, since *if* this layer would not allow water to reach the magnesium, one could define this as non galvanic.

The layer -if works as thought it works- merely uses a part of the water -molecules- [actually its ions] which is allowed to pass the layer. When the other electrode is able to 'recreate' what was taken from the water by the magnesium electrode, we can in essence say that this is what Lidmotor describes as circular, and the -recombined- water itself is trapped.

Hope you can use some info from the PM and video it and share it. I am working on something that 'shares' the cell like things here, thus my interest. However, I can't participate to much, because I focus on my ongoing project for the meantime which takes tedious hours (weeks months) of study.

Thanks for the new video, it explained the build to me. As a slight tip, when you do the drop of water, don't let the water 'leak' to the non coated part, as this will cause plain galvanic action. And preferable, never touch any of the electrodes with your hands, as your body will be a 'third electrode' forming an potential between the ground you stand on and your body height, and could influence your meter readings.

I'm sure later on you or others will find ways to improve -complete- the cell :-), but keep in mind, it's not free energy. Just a new technique.

NextGen1967

EDIT: I might have misread a part... YES, the water on plain contact with the magnesium IS galvanic, tough -in my opinion- NOT on the layered part as described above.

[NickZ]

Jehdds:
What I'm seeing is that the oxide layer on the Mg or (aluminum tube, cans) is acting as a semiconductor, as John B has mentioned. But, just that oxide layer does not make for an electrolyte, by itself. So, a "dry"electrolyte of sorts is still needed to make the voltage, and its currrent levels work.
In any case that is a pretty neat that just the two little pieces of metal can create that much voltage (1.7 volt) when using a 1/2 drop of water.
Thank for doing the videos.

[radiant1]

first cell tomorrow?

We are making a non conductive mold/form to keep plates from moving around as the cell cools. We will use small spacers to control the top plate height and to allow pressure to be applied to the stack. We may be making a cell tomorow. We will use aluminum untill we get magnesium sheets. It will be good to know the difference between the two if any.
Alan

[NextGen1967]

In playing with these cells this evening, I did the lidmotor trick and listened to the oscillator through the radio. It seems to me that the cells do get a little stronger when I am not so close to them. See this video -

Absence Make The Cell Grow Stronger - YouTube

<snip for brevity>

I think the slightly frequency shift has more to do with Penny's coil. This coil can be seen as a transmitter (hold an AV plug near it, and it might even react).

the emitted energy 'stores' up in mass (that is why the AV plug can work on many meters from an emitter coil when the av plug is touching a metallic object), your body also stores some of this if you are nearby (actually mostly the humans blood cells). When you walk away, penny does not store the energy into your body anymore, and thus has more juice left for operating. You could as well place a BULKY metallic object nearby, listen to the frequency, and then take away the BULKY block of metal. it would give the same effect on the radio.

However, it *is* true that the cells like to be left alone, as when mass is constantly moving around in the nearby space, it has an effect on the cell, and usually (not always), this influence is negative. However, the effect is very small.

--
NextGen1967

[Lidmotor]

Is this a game of musical chairs???

@All
If John is right (and I really believe that he is) this situation that we are seeing might be like the game of musical chairs where the players are like the electrons with not enough chairs to go around. Like in the game, when something excites the group (like the music), they all are forced to start moving around in a circle because everyone wants a seat when the music stops. The group is independent of the music. They are just being excited into motion. I see this situation as how a solar cell works. In that case light energy is the music that starts the game up. In these crystal cells perhaps ambient energy of another kind is the music. I am just guessing about this---- but something really weird is going on.

Penny No. 2 is finished and I show her in this video running on an "excited" environment with no cell attached. Penny No. 1 is now at about the voltage where she was on Aug. 26.

Penny No. 2 finished and running on excited air.ASF - YouTube


Lidmotor

[N O G]

Yes like musical chairs

Hi there Lidmotor ,
Nice work and i like the way you think outside the square and have a go at it . Built my first cell the other day but only worked like a super cap and drains after a hour but the weird thing is i can recharge it - so more tests to learn . Cheers Jason

[seth]

Great video lid. One of your best.

Last piece of advice guys concerning the sealing procedure - When should I add the epoxy? Should I wait a few hours for the molten crystal mix to harden??? Does it turn into a horrible mess if I add it to a molten mix straight after cooking?

I wanna try a new central electrode for this next attempt - and its gonna look pretty....


Thanks for all the replies concerning sealant!

[Slider2732]

Very cool video Lidmotor...your comments section is switched off btw (could you excite it into operation ?)
I agree with many of those thoughts, especially the loop idea and lack of chairs.
Oh, btw, you can get a wireless feed straight off a 'Penny' circuit. Here's a project in development that uses one, with pancake coils again but small, 13 winds. The coils are sitting on a HDD platter (sometimes a piece of metal helps with coil resonance).
The blue LED is lit wirelessly.


Perhaps related, is a test of mine at the moment. Many circuits, as folks may well know, get hung up if they are running something and charging it at the same time.
Nephilim Penny is sat outside with the TV remote control I/R LED from a vid yesterday, accepting like a solar panel and connected to a 1F supercap.
Started the test midday today at 0.471V and the circuit has run continuously, now reading 0.738V on the supercap.
Last night at 7pm, a quick blip to 0.588V of the 1F supercap with an AA saw the circuit run til approx 1am. Tonight i'll see if it can run all the way through the night and then it begin charging, with the hoped for sun of tomorrow...24/7 running.
After that, i'll put an old crystal cell on the circuit instead of the supercap, which doesn't have the amperage to run the circuit and see what happens...perhaps the crystal cell can accept a solar charge.

[Lidmotor]

A one minute video on solar cell workings

@All
Here is a short one minute video I watched awhile ago that got me thinking about the "musical chairs" analogy to our cells. Notice how, because of the doping of the silicon, the electrons just get knocked around the circuit when the photon hits. John B. has been trying to explain how these crystal cells are "supposed" to work. I hope that I'm not way off base on my analogy.

How PV cells produce electricity - YouTube

Lidmotor

[jehdds]

Guys,
Quick update. Last night I polarized the mg with Carbon in the molten salts etc, which made the same oxide layer to be sure. I also attempted to place the molten salts onto ambient temp pieces of Mg and Cu then polarize. This resulted in delaminating of the layers upon cooling. As a salvage attempt,
I placed for grins some of the residual polycrystaline salts between the layers of metal and made a minor re-hydration and pressed them together to dry over night. They work. If completely dry, nominal voltage and current. BUT one really really really really tiny bit of water and I see 60mA and 1.68V.
There does NOT seem to be any pitting at all. The molten combination and polarization seems to make the layer to be sure. More tests with larger samples will follow. So the good news is that if you polarize when molten, and the cell delaminates, you may be able to still salvage the cell. The key is the interface layer.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[N O G]

Crystal separator like polymer separators ?

Hi there Everyone ,
When looking at what John B has done with the polycrystal cell this to me is a new technology not seen before and is LIKE a true solid state polymer separator (instead crystal separator) which really has not been done before . Separators have always been used as a divider of materials as well as a passage for electrolyte to move between the materials . So im thinking the polycrystal is a separator and some sort of electrolyte all in one . cheers Jason

[Slider2732]

So, am I right that if we dope at one end of a crystal cell to create a P channel and the other with an N, that we could simulate and effect a true semiconductor ? That the Marcus Reid cells might be charge pumping, like a transistor hFE is created but internal to the cell...therefore charging up by the cells own actions.

I just explained the possible brain rethink of all this to my wife and told her of the channels and whatnot.
At the point that I mentioned P channel she burst into laughter. I then realised how it sounded, to someone not used to transistors

[b_rads]

@All
Here is a short one minute video I watched awhile ago that got me thinking about the "musical chairs" analogy to our cells. Notice how, because of the doping of the silicon, the electrons just get knocked around the circuit when the photon hits. John B. has been trying to explain how these crystal cells are "supposed" to work. I hope that I'm not way off base on my analogy.

How PV cells produce electricity - YouTube

Lidmotor

@all
For your consideration, after watching jehdds eye opening video on the oxides deposited on the Mg and Slider's video on the penny solar cell, I did some research today on the p n junction. Watching lidmotor's video this evening brings me to this thought, we must buld the p n junction. The problem as I understand (forgive me if I get this wrong as I failed to bring my notes home with me) is this. Most if not all organic materials produce the n junction by default, ie ZnO, CuO, Cu2o, and other materials that are common that we could use. It appears that the p junction does not occur normally.

I found this document:
IEEE Xplore - P-n junction from solution: Cuprous oxide p-n homojunction by electrodeposition

Quote from this document follows -
"It is found that Cu2O electrodeposited at bath pH below 7.5 is n-type, while Cu2O deposited at bath pH above 9 is p-type."

Here is the patent application number: US7741243

It appears that both CuO and Cu2O can be created as either p or n junction through electrodeposting on a substrate as a polycrystal. These p or n semiconductors can be deposited on top of each other in the order of your choice. The substrate can be copper sheets.

It seems we can create the p n junction in our cells without the use of extreme heat and without the need for rare and exotic materials.
I have not tried any of this, I am only sharing information I found today.

Brad S

[N O G]

So, am I right that if we dope at one end of a crystal cell to create a P channel and the other with an N, that we could simulate and effect a true semiconductor ? That the Marcus Reid cells might be charge pumping, like a transistor hFE is created but internal to the cell...therefore charging up by the cells own actions.

I just explained the possible brain rethink of all this to my wife and told her of the channels and whatnot.
At the point that I mentioned P channel she burst into laughter. I then realised how it sounded, to someone not used to transistors

Hi there Slider ,
Maybe we drink water in our n channel and put it out our p channel thats why where so efficient lol . I think you could be right with the charge pump like our heart . I think these crystal cells when they work right are made to be out of equilibrium and when they are oscillated with a led or a resonate circuit (not shorted like a light bulb ) the cell falls to equilibrium giving flow but because the led or circuit is switching on/off it is never shorted continuiosly - never hitting equilibrium - so a pump action could be happening on a micro scale. Maybe everytime the led or circuit turns on for that mircrosecond in time it creates either some micro heat or some micro emf that helps stimulate the crystals in the cell . Maybe we could create a circuit that puts mechanical stress back to the cell to make it self loop somehow - like a quartz crystal cell as a coil core and the coil resonates machanical stress on that crystal cell for a self powering system . just an idea i had . cheers Jason