Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

@IB
I did the cell freezing test that you recommended and your "stove top" cell came out as the winner. It dropped down slightly but was still strong enough to run an LED oscillator even when ice cold. The other cells that I tried stopped producing until they warmed back up. Thanks for the idea.



Lidmotor

Glad to hear the Stove cell still works for you when you freeze it.

What cells stopped producing when frozen?

Thanks

[quantumuppercut]

...

First we need to process each electrode, in such a way that it can withstand corrosion.

...

I think this makes sense. JB made a good point about finding the right oxide. Some just flake off but some will have good passive layer protection.

[NickZ]

Plengo, Silver to Gold and All:
You need to use an aluminum tube, or capacitor can as they have more mass. The more mass will produce more current, as the size, mass and the surface area of the electrodes determine the output levels, especially the current level. So, use a capacitor can or aluminum tube, and use the carbon rod, and make sure that the carbon that you are using conducts electricity by testing it first, if it does not conduct, it won't work. Please Don't use the D cell battery carbon that I suggested earlier, as it is contaminated and will ruin the cells in time, although it works quite well for a month or so.
A carbon electrolyte can be made by using the activated aquarium charcoal, and adding a little linseed oil, and turpentine, or mineral spirits to thin the oil. The carbon is crushed first, mixed with the oil, then needs to be allowed to dry for a couple of days. Maybe try to obtain the "spark plug anti-seize that Chuck is using, to see if adding that helps to control the oxidation of the aluminum. I don't know if I can get that spark plug anti-seize here, I'll have to check into it.

@ Lidmotor: I was hoping that your 1/2 " copper cap/mg cell using the Mg coil inside was going to work well, but you are saying that it is also dropping in output. That cell had very impressive output at first, as did my cells when they are first made, which even now after 3 weeks running have 30 to 40 mA.
So, even coating the inside of the copper cap with melted Epsom salt, does not help to make your cell last for long, even when they are sealed with epoxy?

[plengo]

I did a new cell without electrolyte (just water) but using the concepts that I think John is talking about. The P-N junction or semiconductor.

Crystal Battery 7 - YouTube

In the video I tried to explained that the copper cap has an oxide layer using the torch (John's previous technique) and the Magnesium is processed first via a solution to form its own oxide layer too. Than I put the Magnesium wrapped in wet paper inside the copper cap and seal with Elmer's glue (epoxy will be probably better because it does not react with the wet paper, but it is all I had at the moment).

The performance has been surprisingly good. Not much power but I think it is proving the point of the semiconductor idea. 6 cells in series is lighting an LED without any oscillators. It is about 2.77 volts at 1.4ma.

Fausto.

[Slider2732]

I like that thought and concept Fausto...pre-react the electrodes.
From your results, it seems very different from breaking a leg before doing the parachute jump.

Quenching was the new thing over here last night. Heating copper and then immersing in a Boric Acid/water solution. With no Borax, I wanted to try the Boric Acid (Roachkiller from DollarTree). The resulting epsom/alum cell with a galvanised steel electrode put out 1.014V @ 41mA with a 12V blip applied. Have run it with an oscillator for a few hours. This morning it shows 1.023V and 9mA.
When a pre 1982 penny was similarly quenched, it turned pink rather than red.

[Lidmotor]

Thanks for the help and ideas

@ All
Thanks for the help and ideas that are bouncing around on this thread. It is a pretty good group that we have here with everyone sharing what they discover. Some threads get all messed up and side tracked. This group is very focused. With John B. helping we may just nail this thing.

I was able to get my low power oscillator to run on a dry Rochelle salt crystal with only point contact of the electrodes. This has given me renewed hope that we ARE on the right track. What John B. wrote about the Marcus Reid cell is still hard for me to understand but the anology to two ships passing in opposite directions helped. When I go to sea I look at allot of wave forms and sometimes the waves compound on themselves and form weird freak waves. Maybe that is what happens inside the Reid cell.

Here is a video of the point contact Rochelle salt crystal cell and also a cell that I made using a small stainless steel cup:

Point contact Rochelle salt crystal cell.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor

PS----@IB
The copper cap sealed cells went to zero when they were super cooled but bouced back when they warmed up. Only when I heat them with a hairdryer do they go back to the original power level when new ---and that power goes away when they cooled down. Both have epsom salt, rochelle salt, and alum inside. One was a galvanized machine screw and copper cup and the other was Mg coil and copper cup. I shorted out your "stove top" cell last night for awhile to see what would happen----it bounced right back. That is the best one I have tested so far.

@Plengo
Your pre oxide coating idea will be interesting to follow. It might be what is called a "pacification" layer that protects the base metal. I hope that the cells you made that way keep putting out power and don't just fade away like so many of mine have. The whole idea of pacification is to stop the chemical reaction that eats a metal up.

@Slider
Try this experiment: Take a stainless steel spoon with some tap water in it and hook your multimeter leads to it---one on the handle out of the water and one in the water. Even those two metals form a galvanic cell.

@NickZ
I am still OK with making a galvanic cell that lasts longer than a typical one but I would really like to make something totally different---like the Marcus Reid cell.

[b_rads]

MonoThermal Revisited

@all:
I see everyone has been really busy this weekend and some great discussion and cool vids - good work!!

I decided to revisit the MonoThermal cell again and have some very nice results to report. I made 3 pair of penny cells using this process. The zinc penny is coated with Elmer's glue mixed with ChromicOxide and the copper penny is coated with glue mixed with phosphrous red. I found out that the common wooden stick match is coated mostly in phosphorus red. I removed this from the match and ground to a powder to make the penny cells. 3 pair of these cells together put out 2.10V at 9ma. Together they will light a red led (no circuit). 1 cell will run Lidmotor's penny circuit quite well.

Is this a p-n junction? Most oxides produce the n junction and Phosphorus is used as a dopant for the p junction. (I think this is right)

I have new cells being constructed as I prepare this post and I am using magnesium and trying both the chromic oxide in half the cells and Zinc Oxide in the other half. I will post results in a day or two.

I am really excited about these, even though thay are not the model for the crystal cells most everyone else is making. Remember, the inventor claims he has cells that have been producing for 10 years.

Brad S

[NickZ]

Guys:
Two different metals electrodes are the driving force of the voltage and current. BUT, those two metals, will not produce anything by themselves, UNLESS, there is an electrolyte layer. This electrolyte layer's efficiency determines the amount of juice that this filter will allow to be moved through it by the draw. And this electrolyte ions flux movement level is also determined by the electrolyte ion density or concentration, of that particular electrolyte. All other things being equal, when using the same two metals etz...
Now, since no cell has ever produced over two volts output. I am assuming that the semiconductor layers are acting as electrolytes as well as forming a protective layer from oxidation, but these are in no way producing any of the output. They are only protecting the surface layers of the metal electrodes from further desintegration, while allowing ions through, to create voltage.
Is there also an idea that these two different semiconductors oxide layers are adding to, or in some way helping to raise the existing voltage levels, that the two different metals are able to produce, even without those semiconductor layers.??? Yes, No?

[Slider2732]

As a quick comment on that. I have seen amperage differences as well as voltage.
A cell here has a negative electrode in the form of a piece of galvanised steel and no positive electrode. If I put a pre 1982 penny on the cell the oscillator doesn't fire. If I put the oxidised pink one I mentioned earlier on top, the oscillator fires up.
With the regular penny, the voltage is 0.51V - almost zero uA
With the oxidised semiconductor penny it's 0.82V - 204uA

[jehdds]

Guys:
Now, since no cell has ever produced over two volts output. I am assuming that the semiconductor layers are acting as electrolytes as well as forming a protective layer from oxidation, but these are in no way producing any of the output. They are only protecting the surface layers of the metal electrodes from further desintegration, while allowing ions through, to create voltage.
Is there also an idea that these two different semiconductors oxide layers are adding to, or in some way helping to raise the existing voltage levels, that the two different metals are able to produce, even without those semiconductor layers.??? Yes, No?

Nick,
Great news for you and all. But first the bad news.
I had a untoward and unexpected finding this AM. My Crystal Cell Test Tube #4 Shattered overnight. This was the cell that kept bouncing back after repeated shorting etc. I have a theory of why.
1. Glass is brittle and the tube is not designed to be radially internally stressed.
2. As long as the crystal cell is in use or is being shorted, the intrinsic bound water does nothing nefarious or unwanted. If left alone without being used, the water at least in the ZnO, Epsom, silica gel, galina, pyrite type cell WILL EXPAND. For the short term, no biggie and may add to the internal piezo effect stressing the crystal lattice. It is not a problem if the electrolyte layer is unconstrained, or constrained in a metallic housing that can withstand the expansile force. My dry pile cells keep going without water addition, but they are open and unconstrained.

So a theory of why there is more voltage and even in the absence of added water, may be intrinsically tied to piezo effects exacerbated by temp, or constraint to the physical dimensions of the cell.

Now for the GREAT NEWS.
I have made a one layer Carbon/Magnesium cell that has been sitting on my workbench that makes 2.6V. 29mA One cell.
I think I have figured out a seemingly more optimal Polarizing regimen for these type cells.

Even Better news, As per JB, the metallic components do not care if the oxide layer is created by heat or electrically!!! This statement hit me like a bullet in the back of my noggin.

I reconstituted my left over electrolyte salts that were previously heated to molten that solidified in the stainless cup that was exposed to the initial polarizing charge via carbon/Mag electrodes. I mixed with a little tap water to make a paste that I could paint on the magnesium electrode at ambient temperature.
I then sandwiched the carbon/Magnesium plates with a small plastic vice.
I used my dedicated power supply to charge the cell at 31 V and I set the current to .75 amp. I pulsed this for one second a number of times and noted the electrolyte bubbling. I carefully noted that when the electrodes were applied, the volt meter on my power supply decreased and the amp reading shows. I kept on doing this for a few more seconds and then the volt meter showed as if there was nothing more flowing and read 31 volts again. At this point the bubbling stopped. I disconnected the cell and checked the voltage and it was 2.6V It has been sitting for a number of hours and has not decreased. So, time will tell. The Best thing is that again as JB has hinted, once heated the crystal is DIFFERENT. So, reconstitution seemed like a good idea to at least try. If anyone else has tried this, please advise. It may make the assembly of these cells on a MUCH larger scale more possible.

We may simply need to smack the cell with a great jolt and keep it there until it accepts no more, thus the crystals are maximally polarized and excess water is assisted in being driven off. It did make the electrolyte dry faster to be sure.

I have a small tiny cell as per my last video that was also made via reconstituted electrolyte and it has been left alone and works, 1.575V and 19.9mA.

This polarizing technique may be worth exploring more.
I hope this may help some and continue the progress.

Again, This is a Zn0 based cell, and its application for Rochelle remains to be seen. In theory, it makes sense that it should work.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is a clip about the previous post at 2.6V one cell.
Zn0 ONE CELL RECONSTITUTED - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[mikrovolt]

@lidmotor,
I've been thinking about the penny oscillator with stove-top cell.
my thinking is that possibly in your absence your houseplants soaked up the CO2 and produced Oxygen, The iron coils and leedskalnin stuff is not well understood, the device is protonic. This might be affecting the local atmosphere in a good way. The twist tie oscillator needs more study I think negative spikes and a ground might have some advantage. Good productivity lid.

@Jehdds, sorry to hear the test tubes are cracking I was hoping that
glass would work out maybe there is a work around on this during.
the crystal expansion period. Something like doing it on foil and putting it
in the test tube.

@b rads, glad to hear your thinking about the phosphorus because
we got lots of N and not much P.

@all great job, reminder that CO2 is mostly what eats the magnesium.
what ever energy is coming in, its going right through the oxide no problem.

[jehdds]

Guys here is a few new updates.....
Zn0 ONE CELL CARBON CARBON "oreo cell" - YouTube
Zn0 ONE CELL RECON LED - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[NickZ]

Mikcrovolt, Jehdds, and all:
The solar flare that we had last week was on the order of 7 on a scale of 10. The fact that several of us noticed the TEMPORARY increased voltage when the cells are left unattended, and especially the increased current levels, is very important. As it is showing that these cells are receiving "ambient energies", and running on them, and I think that this is important to remember.
This last solar flare also caused huge storms, with mayor lightning, thunder, and flooding. Not to mention earth quakes which here in Costa Rica got to about 5 point something on the scale, 10.7 foot high tides happened just after that.

Jehdds: Most cells when charged with additional jump start voltage will retain that for hours or days. But, will slowly drop once connected to a draw from a load, to their normal working voltage, possibly as it was before the charging. If your cells voltage levels lasts longer, (days or weeks), under load, then that would be very interesting, and is what needs to be noted.
I do think that there may be something to the internal presure of a a cell possibly creating additional voltage. As I also notice this when I first compress the carbon/quartz mix and press the top plug down tight on the cells. Again this is usually a temporary thing, as the voltage drops under load, still.
So, the important thing as John has mentioned, with any of these cells is, how long will it last, at that output. All tests should include a load, as fluffy voltage can be deceiving. I look at what the current is doing, as even 2.5 volts with no current will not light a white led very bright by itself. Your carbon/mg cell has a lot of mass to it, and should produce 1.5 or higher voltage even on it own, just using a wet paper electrolyte. So, how much higher voltage than that it is able to produce, and will it maintain it?
I would seal the edge of the carbon/mg cell with clear 5 minute e-poxy, or dip the whole thing in a resin casing.

Oxidation formation on the aluminum cans my original capacitor can quartz/carbon cell has busted and ripped through the cans, like it did on the test tube. Voltage levels are maintaining, but the aluminum is not.
Time did tell... voltage is 1.2 volts, and 15mA. down from, 50 mA. in three weeks 24/7 running, this is standing voltage, right after disconnecting them.
If the cells are not absolutely hermetic, they won't last much, at all. But, without oxygen, the oxidation can't really form as it needs the oxygen to make the reaction. But that black oxide layer that forms on copper may not need much oxygen to form, and that can cause the lowering of output levels.
Electroplating of the electrodes sounds like a good way to go, also.
NickZ

[jehdds]

John,
Is it possible that the cells electrolyte can act as a fuel cell,
With either 02 or H20 as the source, or even Co2?
I noticed on my tiny reconstituted pile cell of copper and magnesium after running a 1ohm resistive load for 7 hours the cell dropped from 1.57 volts to .33 volts but the current maintained at 20mA.
One small breath across the cell and the voltage jumped back to 1.5 to 1.7
( Note I am anticipating jokes about my breath etc,
And I admit this test was done prior to brushing my teeth this morning
But seriously, it is fascinating that my other dry pile cells keep holding their own and I am dwelling upon the potential digestive chemisty that
may be occurring.
Thoughts on the carbon carbon cell welcomed
Very Best Regards,
Jim