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[ibpointless2]

"Could you do the freeze test again but don't use the aerosol. Place the galvanic cell and your ZnO cell in a deep freeze or your freezer at home and let them sit for 24 hours. The rapid cooling worries me, as this can destroy your cell. The reason why the ZnO cell was going up in voltage was due to the cell heating back up. "

The voltage if the cell bounced back while still frozen.
The galvanic cell needed the blowtorch to do that.
I am not clear how a less cold more moist environment could be a superior thermal insult test on this cell.
I am quite sure my simple freezer will NOT
Go to -26.2C! The 400 degree
Oven test I will say would be imprudent.
After all that "crystal water" needs
To be there. The heat with magnesium
Is perhaps ok but, by all means, replicate
The cell and give it a go!
Very best regards,
Jim

The voltage went down on both cells due to you making them cold, so if cold makes the cells go down than heating them makes them go up just like how you shown. When you heated the water battery with a touch you supplied a instant heat source thus the voltage went up quickly. The ZnO cell you did not put a torch on it so it heated up slowly due to the surrounding air being hotter than it so the voltage went up slowly. Just because you froze it doesn’t mean it will stay frozen, as soon as you remove the cooling it starts to heat back up because it wants to be at the temperature that surrounds it.

The freezer allows it to cool slower and more evenly. In the video you cooled the Water based cell for longer than the ZnO cell, so it didn’t seem fair. Allowing them to cool in the same environment for the same amount of time will really help out a lot. You should have nothing to fear, its a simple test. It doesn’t matter how cold you freezer gets as long as it below 32 degrees F so it freezes water.

If you could post the list of stuff needed to replicate your cell I would try to make it. thanks.

[radiant1]

3 cells update

cell 1. is now at 1 volt, crystal is hard
cell 2 is at .9 volts
Cell 3 is at 1.2 volts
in both 2 and 3 the mix is still soft
very low mili amps in all 3 and not able to light any leds
How do you get the current up?
Alan

[everyidea]

More homework...

Good Reading:
DoITPoMS - TLP Library Introduction to Semiconductors

"If an electric field is now applied to the material, all of the electrons in the solid will feel a force from the electric field. However, because no two electrons can be in the exact same quantum state, an electron cannot gain any momentum from the electric field unless there is a vacant momentum state adjacent to the state being occupied by the electron."

How I think MR cells work:
1. Between two dissimilar metals is an electric field potential.

2.Connect the field potential with a non-doped crystal and you have a connected electric field that can't move electrons.

3.Add vacant momentum states at the point of electrode contact and have the matrix of the crystal switch the state as it approaches the other electrode in order to use the electric field potential to move the electrons and/or hole charges.

4. This is why I believe MR cells are built like: +electrode with P doping > N doped crystal that transitions into a P > -electrode with N doping. They need the vacant momentum space to hand off the charge and keep the ships sailing.

5. These cells/electrons also need to be trained. Read posts on MR's site for more info.

This might be the reason why we always see his cells with resistors on them when not in use, to keep the cells trained and sailing.

rw

[jehdds]

In the video you cooled the Water based cell for longer than the ZnO cell, so it didn’t seem fair. Allowing them to cool in the same environment for the same amount of time will really help out a lot. You should have nothing to fear, its a simple test. It doesn’t matter how cold you freezer gets as long as it below 32 degrees F so it freezes water.

If you could post the list of stuff needed to replicate your cell I would try to make it. thanks. [/QUOTE]

I assure you both cells were taken WELL BELOW ZERO. Note the surface area of the galvanic cell. It is approximately four times the mass of my smaller cell. I do not believe it was necessary nor needed to used the same volume of refrigerant. Both were encapsulated in the surrounding ambient moisture layer that was present at the time of the flash freeze.

The rate of loss of voltage was more marked and faster for the galvanic cell, in addition to a more profound loss of voltage. The galvanic cell bounced back that quickly due to thermal influx. The crystal cell bounced back faster without and thermal input via torch. Please watch the video again closely.

Understanding of the mechanism of freezing, perhaps as Freeze dried food vs frozen fresh food is a good analogy of why I chose to freeze so quickly.
i.e. TO ENSURE WHATEVER CRYSTAL CONFIGURATION WOULD THEORETICALLY BE PRESERVED.

To freeze slowly is a valid test. I can do this. The validity of a differental in galvanic response vs the crystal cell seems appearent from the flash freeze.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

Guys,
Later tonight I will upload the current test under flash freeze that will satisfy any question on the profound amount of freezing.
It drops very nominally, then even jumped higher due to piezo effect then stabilized without deterioration.
This too may serve to support that the ZnO based cell is NOT
Galvanic.
Very Best Regards
Jim

[ibpointless2]

@jehdds

“The rate of loss of voltage was more marked and faster for the galvanic cell, in addition to a more profound loss of voltage. The galvanic cell bounced back that quickly due to thermal influx. The crystal cell bounced back faster without and thermal input via torch. Please watch the video again closely.”

I have re-watch your video. I stand by what I said, as soon as you remove the cold the cells will start to heat back up due to the surrounding air being hotter. You freeze the galvanic cell first and the voltage goes down due to you freezing it. At 2:21 in your video you even say it will start to bounce back (the galvanic cell) and it does start to climb back up due to it starting to heat back up. You even confirm that heating up the cell makes the galvanic cell come back to life by putting a blow torch to it. The thermal input was from the surrounding air for both cells, the more heat you give it the higher it would jump. At 3:45 the crystal cell starts to bounce back up in voltage due to you not supplying more cooling to it so now its trying to warm back up to the surrounding temperature. Both cells bounced back due to the surrounding air heating them both up, the torch only quicken the process. Both cells were heating up at the same rate if you exclude the torch.

Could you please post how to make you ZnO cell, i want to build one. Thank you.

[jehdds]

I have re-watch your video. I stand by what I said, as soon as you remove the cold the cells will start to heat back up due to the surrounding air being hotter. You freeze the galvanic cell first and the voltage goes down due to you freezing it. At 2:21 in your video you even say it will start to bounce back (the galvanic cell) and it does start to climb back up due to it starting to heat back up. You even confirm that heating up the cell makes the galvanic cell come back to life by putting a blow torch to it. The thermal input was from the surrounding air for both cells, the more heat you give it the higher it would jump. At 3:45 the crystal cell starts to bounce back up in voltage due to you not supplying more cooling to it so now its trying to warm back up to the surrounding temperature. Both cells bounced back due to the surrounding air heating them both up, the torch only quicken the process. Both cells were heating up at the same rate if you exclude the torch.

Could you please post how to make you ZnO cell, i want to build one. Thank you. [/QUOTE]

Did you notice that the galvanic cell dropped
To .1 volt vs the ZnO cell just dropped to below 1volt?
Do you think a galvanic cell will maintain or INCREASE current flow when at
-26.2C?
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

@Jim

"Did you notice that the galvanic cell dropped
To .1 volt vs the ZnO cell just dropped to below 1volt?
Do you think a galvanic cell will maintain or INCREASE current flow when at
-26.2C?"


Yes I did notice.

From 1:10 to 1:27 you gave cooling to the Water cell from that time you went from 1.377 volts to .317 volts with a loss of 1.06 volts. That was 17 seconds and you lost 1.06 volts. Then you applied more cooling and thus the cell went down more.

From 3:00 to 3:12 you gave the crystal cell some cooling and from that time you went from 1.595 volts to .980 volts with a loss of .615 volts.That was 12 seconds and you lost .615 volts.


You lost almost half of your voltage from the crystal cell, you went from 1.595 volts to .980 volts and it looks like you could have lost more if you kept on cooling the cell in that manner. From this it could mean that your cell is almost half galvanic, but I can’t confirm this unless you put these cells in your freezer and let them sit for 24 hours.


Will galvanic cell maintain or increase current when frozen at a low temp? First off I must ask where you get such a precise number like 26.2 degrees C? Do you have a laser thermometer to prove its at that temp? As for the question the Galvanic cell should slow down ion movement when it freezes, slow downed ion movement means less electron flow so the current should slow down just like the voltage. The reason why Ice freezes is due to the molecules slowing down so they make a solid and if the molecules slow down then the things inside the water slowdown and thus less power comes out of a frozen water battery.

[jehdds]

"Will galvanic cell maintain or increase current when frozen at a low temp? First off I must ask where you get such a precise number like 26.2 degrees C? Do you have a laser thermometer to prove its at that temp? As for the question the Galvanic cell should slow down ion movement when it freezes, slow downed ion movement means less electron flow so the current should slow down just like the voltage. The reason why Ice freezes is due to the molecules slowing down so they make a solid and if the molecules slow down then the things inside the water slowdown and thus less power comes out of a frozen water battery."

The temp perhaps has to do with what the manufacturer specifies the 1,1,1,2 tetrafluoroethane will produce when sprayed on a surface.

I am most certain you especially will enjoy the clip I will upload tonight!
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

Here is a cell that is subject to the same refrigerant stream and noting the current levels.
CURRENT OF Zn0CELL BELOW ZERO Rule out GALVANIC.mov - YouTube
Again, this would appear to me as a clear example that the cell is NOT galvanic nor a water battery. I do not have any liquid nitrogen, so this is as cold as I will be able to attain without a dewar or access to liquid cryogenic materials. The jump in Current level is INTRIGUING and may point to a piezo effect? All thoughts welcome.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

Here is a cell that is subject to the same refrigerant stream and noting the current levels.
CURRENT OF Zn0CELL BELOW ZERO Rule out GALVANIC.mov - YouTube
Again, this would appear to me as a clear example that the cell is NOT galvanic nor a water battery. I do not have any liquid nitrogen, so this is as cold as I will be able to attain without a dewar or access to liquid cryogenic materials. The jump in Current level is INTRIGUING and may point to a piezo effect? All thoughts welcome.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

This is interesting, but I think you put it best. "The jump in Current level is INTRIGUING and may point to a piezo effect" The jump in current is from the spray putting pressure onto the cell which makes the current jump up, but as soon as the pressure goes away the current drops due to the freezing temps. You can see at 1:07 and 1:36 the cell tries to go back up in voltage due to it heating back up. You started off with 22.6 (mirco or milli ?)amps but ended up lower amps in the end. The jump in amps was due to the piezoelectric effect.

But the only thing that puzzles me is at the end of the video, the amps start to go back down. The cell should have gotten a little closer to 22.6 but instead only made it to 19.5, I can't explain that. Could it be your meter acting like a load?

[ibpointless2]

@ lidmotor

The stove cell that runs Penny#1 have you noticed voltage seems to be higher during the night than in the morning? I've built your Penny oscillator with the chokes instead of wire and have it running a Crystal Glue Cell. Its not perfect like yours because I lack a potentiometer. The Penny Oscillator is so much better than a Joule thief.

thanks.

[jehdds]

This is interesting, but I think you put it best. "The jump in Current level is INTRIGUING and may point to a piezo effect" The jump in current is from the spray putting pressure onto the cell which makes the current jump up, but as soon as the pressure goes away the current drops due to the freezing temps. You can see at 1:07 and 1:36 the cell tries to go back up in voltage due to it heating back up. You started off with 22.6 (mirco or milli ?)amps but ended up lower amps in the end. The jump in amps was due to the piezoelectric effect.

But the only thing that puzzles me is at the end of the video, the amps start to go back down. The cell should have gotten a little closer to 22.6 but instead only made it to 19.5, I can't explain that. Could it be your meter acting like a load?

I think instead of spray pressure, the thermal "Shock" is what causes the jump. The current drops perhaps more due to lattice equilibration to temp than the temp itself. Remember, it is the rate of applied stress that may be of importance as well for the piezo. I think the lower current level is that the system is no longer being subject to changes in the stress thus things level out. This is of course assuming the piezo effect is here, which it seems very likely. Thanks,
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is the next Video update showing the PURE GALVANIC CELL current under the refrigerant stream.
Galvanic BELOW ZERO & Update Shorted OREO - YouTube
There is a difference from the Zn0 cell.
Also an update on the OREO Carbon Carbon cell after four days dead short. The cell bounces back, and perhaps is NOT a capacitor. Exploring the Zn0 Epsoms electrolyte may be worth while. All thoughts welcome.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

Guys,
Here is the next Video update showing the PURE GALVANIC CELL current under the refrigerant stream.
Galvanic BELOW ZERO & Update Shorted OREO - YouTube
There is a difference from the Zn0 cell.
Also an update on the OREO Carbon Carbon cell after four days dead short. The cell bounces back, and perhaps is NOT a capacitor. Exploring the Zn0 Epsoms electrolyte may be worth while. All thoughts welcome.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

I'm going to say that pressure from the can and the instant chill to the cell cause something to contract or expand and create pressure which cause the cells amps to go up. So cooling and pressure from the can caused the amps to raise for a short duration.

As for the OREO cell its using the same "metals" so you should not see no more than 100mV from it. If you ever had a higher voltage from it then it was due to you applying power to it and it formed a oxide layer, this is how lead-acid batteries work. I've never been a fan of zapping a cell as I never seen any benefit.

Will you post a video or write down how you make your ZnO cells. thank you.