Bedini Earth Light

[ibpointless2]

I think I may have accidentally figured something out about cells of all kinds. It seems that giving a cell a load and/or short will keep it from corroding as easy as just doing nothing. I figured this out and I'm redoing the test with more control over it as I was not looking for this from the test i was doing. I was trying to see if a magnet touching steel wire would stop the corrosion of in salt water while shorted out. I had one cup with salt water and copper and steel wire and another cup the same but the steel wire was touching a magnet but the magnet was not in the water. Both cells were shorted out for almost a week but I noticed very little corrosion forming on them both and declared the experiment a failure so I removed the shorts and left both metals in the water solution and figured i'll clean it up later. Two days went by and both metals are showing red rust badly and are corroding away like crazy. I'm re-running the test again but one cell is shorted and the other is not to make sure this is not some fluke.

A short keeping a cell alive would explain why the crystal glue cell that I shorted out for a 3 months was still alive when given a chance to rest. It would also explain why some cells shorted out come back stronger. It may become important to place a high ohm resistor across the cells to keep them in tip-top shape. This would also explain why 12 volt batteries go dead when never used.

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is an Update on the Super Penny variant using a different Transistor.
Normally 20mA needed to strike this LED. Using only maximally 2mA
Neat. Kudos to Lidmotor, JB, IB etc. Just my bumbling along.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
Super Penny Variant #2.mov - YouTube

[LetsReplicate]

Or, are we looking at a 'virtual ground' technique

If we're trying to steal potential between a ground, and a virtual ground, then what we're looking for is a "ground loop".

In an electrical system, a ground loop usually refers to a current, almost always unwanted, in a conductor connecting two points that are supposed to be at the same potential, often ground, but are actually at different potentials. Ground loops created by improperly designed or improperly installed equipment are a major cause of noise and interference in audio and video systems. They can also create an electric shock hazard, since ostensibly "grounded" parts of the equipment, which are often accessible to users, are not at ground potential.

So, I've sandwiched a penny oscillator into a ground loop between Earth and a virtual signal ground using a copper-magnesium cell: Fun with ground loops! I may need to flip the grounds around still, I'm still testing. Basically it's a stack of oscillators that can be expanded to use more virtual ground plates (any non Earth grounded "large metal mass" object will do ) and antennas.

I like this design so far because the cells are all in series but source in parallel pulses.

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is a clip showing the relative importance of how the inductors are oriented. I know most of you know this already.
More work to be sure. Also below are some photos of Mn0, ZnO, Silica gel electrolyte and crystal formation at AMBIENT TEMPS. They are macro shots of the interface of the electrolyte Mn02, ZnO, Silica gel and the Magnesium Cylinder and Graphite rod electrode. Again, these crystals formed at room temps very quickly over the course of hours. Magnetic influence on crystal formation of this type will be attempted as well. This is very very interesting electrolyte that seems to be able to deliver current, and destructive tests to follow to evaluate Mg surface. Pretreatment with Electrolytically deposited Epsoms/ZnO mix should prove to be barrier to deterioration. I have been running the cell and hydrating often to attempt to destroy it. After a few more days, I will open and observe. Please let me know if anyone else will attempt this mix. See other ZnO crystal fabrication modalities etc eg:
Very Best Regards,
Jim
http://physics.usc.edu/~paichun/publications/29.pdf
http://www.nanoscience.gatech.edu/pa...4/04_AFM_1.pdf
http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewc...20surfaces†%22

[jehdds]

Guys here is the link for the video,
Sorry,
Small Inductor Proximity Test.mov - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[NickZ]

Jim:
I wonder if the chokes work as well as the larger hand wound ferrite toroid coils. I suppose that the best way to know is to take a voltage/current reading at the led.
I saw an add for ready made blocking oscillators like the joule thief, but using the small chokes like you are doing. I didn't even know that kind of thing was even available. I wonder how well it would work with our type of cells.
Joule Thief Boost Circuit

[FrozenWaterLab]

Hello

It's been weeks studding the thread.
I even transferred it to my laptop so I could read at work during breaks.
All internet access locked at site where I work.
The Kiln arrived today and I have ordered and received allot of the chemicals mentioned, some still on the way.
Can't find Mg tubes. Anyone have a link?
After digesting what you all worked on Obviously I've got my pet project HA
Best I've come up with is the .05 sheet then roll it inside a copper tube.
I'll try a pin to hold edges together for oxide treatment.
Want it in shape it will be used in then the pin can be removed after in position in Crystal matrix or pin may be a contact point???
Maybe copper pin? Might have trouble making contact.
Thats a major construction detail - making contact to the thin film isn't it.
I'll try JB-Weld its spota be conductive I've heard. Before oxide treatment.
I'll report my findings.
I want the roll of Mg exposed on both sides to the crystal with Copper tube or Foil outer and a couple copper wires in center connected to outer tube.
I wanted to find thicker Mg tube so I could compare same surface area/minimum/max bulk.
Future maybe.
I saw some reference to less cathode (Copper/Carbon) surface needed ????
Have that right???
As I see it with the mix thing, I want to make small same size cell cnging only one thing at a time.
I've only seen a little of this or someone didn't figure it was all that important to post there results.
I think it might be a good idea to start a basic reference kinda database.
Materials should be what is easily available to all.
Like 1/2 sq. .05 thick Mg and 1/4" x 1/2" Cu = X V at X ma if you use these Chems in Such and such % and make it this thick.
This might be important to access what is available to some and they can expect such and such.
Anyone know of such a list on another site in there downloads ??????
If not maybe a new thread for that info huh Data huh
Don't take me wrong what I've seen you-all seam to be doing uncharted things and I'm impressed! Thats why this has been so interesting.
I see that its made it a wee bit easier for some of the less fortunate to supply their need for low power devices - be it light, radio reception etc.
I think that will spread.
Good work

This is a list of what has been ordered and the X denotes what I've recieved.

x Alum Powder 5Lb. & Sml Can from Groc.
?Potash alum = potassium alum sulphate

Amonium Aluminum Sulfate 1Lb.

x Aluminum Potassium Sulfate (SO4) 500 g

Barium titanium oxide

BISMUTH(III) Sulfate 99%

x BISMUTH Metal bottle of 3/8" slugs

x Barium Nitrate Ba(NO3)2

Calcium carbonate 99.5% (METAL BASIS)

x Calcium Cloride 1Lb.

x Carbon - Rod and block (Various sizes) = Powder &
charcoal briquettes

x Copper sheet remnants 6Lb.

Copper pipe caps 1/2" 20ea.

Copper couplings 1", 2" & 3"

Copper(II) sulfate pentahydrate

x Cupric Sulfate 60 g

Drying Silicate for flowers - flower store

x 5min Epoxy

x Epson Salt - magnesium sulphate

x Galena Crystal mineral ?Galina lead(II) sulfide

Graphite - Lock Lube - locksmith

x Iron pyrite 1-3" & 8-1"

x Kiln Paragon Firefly 8x8x4-1/2 - 2350

x Magnesium Rod 1" x 12" - 10ea

x Magnesium Foil 2 roll 2 Thickness - .05 & .1 m

1/2x Magnesium Foil Sheets 2 Thickness- .05 & .1 m

Magnesium oxide

x Niobium wire 22gage 5ft. halfhard round

x Potassium Permanganate KMnO4

x Quartz, 1/2" x 1" Points 10ea.

x Rochelle Salt 1Lb. Potassium sodium L-tartrate tetrahydrate
Rochelle salt = potassium sodium carbon hydroxide

x Salt Substitute - 4 ea. @ 3 1/8 oz. = 12 1/2 oz.
Potassium Chloride, Fumaric acid,
Tricalcium Phosphate, Mono-calcium Phosphate
1tsp = 5g (1/4 = 1.2g)

x Sand - deposit down the street - cut in the bluff - bring in to thaw

Silicon carbide 600

SELENIUM -325 MESH 99.5% (METAL BASIS)

x Sodium Carbonate Na2CO3 3 Lb. (Used for Tie-Dying)
- washing soda or soda ash -
can be created from sodium chloride,
(also known as table salt) and limestone.
is a sodium salt of carbonic acid
(heptahydrates)

Strontium titanium oxide

x Tungsten wire & Rod

ZIRCONIUM(IV) OXIDE 99.7%
(METAL BASIS EXCLUDING HF)HF<75PPM

I have others to order already such as ZNO
Anyone have suggestions of ingredients I might want to try?

By the way this is me Haha
Henry (Skip) Scepurek (FrznWtr at FrozenWaterLabs)
PO Box 872103
Wasilla AK 99687 USA
All I Saw
I've used this info for sales (Nat. sales director for Co. at one time)
So no prob. But I wouldn't recommend for most.
I'm a Longshorman by Trade 37yrs

I'll be a tinkering
PS I highly recommend Camera Tripods to any of you doing U-tubes
AND Look in the view finder to see if the Meter read out is visible will ya
FrznWtr

[plengo]

@FrozenWaterLab,

great idea. I will very soon post all the sites I have been buying things from and show in a video too.

@All,

I would like to explain some of my findings but in a more "organic" way. I have cells running since July/August of 2011 and they ALL are still running with same intensity as day one. They all diminish in intensity as time pass but with a tiny drop of water they become alive again.

Many cells have corroded and many have standed the test of time without a infinite corrosion, just a little bit which eventually stopped and continue to run. I have been using over 50 different formulas and physical geometries to find the correct combination.

A few things have stood up as signs of how this "organic cell" likes to work. Alum plays an important row as a crystal entity and preservation mechanism.
Water is the "gas" while evaporating or being consumed by the cell.

If you expose the cell to the "air" the water will "evaporate/be consumed" faster and the cell will loose its intensity. More water revives it. More water also increases the corrosion. Too much water kills the cell by "drowning".
As the water evaporates cells becomes alive if not much corrosion progressed.

If you encapsulates the cell in a "housing" where some form of containment is protecting it, it will perform much longer until the water is consumed. While the process goes, the crystal grows even more and more organic the cell becomes.

A second "housing" that keeps the whole "air-water" level is maintained the cell performs even better and much longer without having to add more water. Depending in how tight is that second "housing"

So, the cell lives like a tree and follows a specific life cycle:
- it must be born. Meaning, the day one builds the cell. It is in a inactive form just like a seed.
- it must be activated. Adding water causes it to become active and puts it on its initial stage of embryonic development.
- it must replicate. With initial water activation, cells starts growing its crystal structure. The amount of water here is "extremely important" in that too much water will force too much corrosion and destroy the cell. Too little water will not allow the cell to grow its crystal structure to a level bigger then the initial corrosion. This is crucial point that experimentation and geometry are key elements.
- it must reach maturity and eat is own food. If you activate the cell, you must keep it using more water as food otherwise the cell will permanently die. It must consume the initial water while growing otherwise it will not grow at all. So, after activation one must pay attention on how much water it is there and wait until the first "water food" is consume. DO NOT ADD MORE WATER until the cell digest it COMPLETELY and becomes less intense. That is the mature state. Now the cell is almost not emitting light and "seams" to be dead but it is not.
- it needs to live. After the maturity staged is reached add more water in very small quantities and the cell will start growing every time and produce light as its fruit, just like a tree does. This is the phase where we all want, where the cell can be replenished with food (water) and produce so that we can harvest its fruits (light). Here I have found that the "second housing" can keep the cell in a self contained environment where one does not need to add much water for long periods simply because this containment holds the water and via condensation (very visible if you use a transparent container such as glass bottle) and keeping humidity at a constant level. Some of the water is consumed by the cell and transformed into O2 and H2 which escapes the container and needs to be replaced with added water.
- it needs to be harvested. If you remove the light (LED) from the cell she will die because its fruit (light) must be harvested otherwise the crystal structure will stop growing and she will become like a rock which will close all her inner "veins" making her unable to consume water by simply "lack of use" (fundamental law).

Please, understand that my explanation above is based on real science of observation, replication, measurements and theory application. Even though it sounds very not scientific I think my terminology above does work and if taken with a child's heart can be applied so that others can learn in a very intuitive manner.

Geometry is extremely important. Surface area plays an important role in current production but it is not the only factor. Scaling the surface are will not help if the geometry is not correct. The cell needs its "veins" to be able to carry water through her whole body. Too big of a surface area can actually hinder that and kill the performance of the cell. Smaller cells have been performing much better than big ones.

Fausto.

[ibpointless2]

anybody have salt substitute that's not made by Morton? If you do could you please post the ingredients in it. I'm trying to find what Morton's does different with there salt sub.

[NickZ]

@ Plengo and All:
Thank you for that well thought out explanation.
However, I think that there can be more to it than just the feeding of the of a cells water habit, or it will stop producing power, and not grow crystals, etz. Is that not still just the proof that this is a chemical reaction that we are seeing? No water, no power? Or a variation of the galvanic theory?
On the other hand if a cell can produce energy without needing air, or needing water to burn or use in any way. Then that would be the proof that there is more to a solid state type of cell, than just what you have observed concerning flowing water veins inside the cells, drying up, like a plant.

I feel that the two different metals (or Carbon), are producing energy, by a conversion process taken from the surrounding ambient, similar to what some capacitors can do. This process can get totally over-shadowed by our not so wanted chemical or galvanic reaction, but Only If, there is air (oxygen and hydrogen), or water present.

My carbon/quartz cells use no water, nor do they need any water added later, and are sealed from the outside air, and can still light leds. Series connection of multiple cells of this type will produce any voltage needed, but with practically no current. Another proof of the non-galvanic nature of this kind of led light production, is this No Current, Potential Only, type of cell. No oxidation and no current should also mean, no wearing out, and so the cells can last a very long time, dry as a bone...

NickZ

[plengo]

@ Plengo and All:
Thank you for that well thought out explanation.
However, I think that there can be more to it than just the feeding of the of a cells water habit, or it will stop producing power, and not grow crystals, etz. Is that not still just the proof that this is a chemical reaction that we are seeing? No water, no power? Or a variation of the galvanic theory?
On the other hand if a cell can produce energy without needing air, or needing water to burn or use in any way. Then that would be the proof that there is more to a solid state type of cell, than just what you have observed concerning flowing water veins inside the cells, drying up, like a plant.

I feel that the two different metals (or Carbon), are producing energy, by a conversion process taken from the surrounding ambient, similar to what some capacitors can do. This process can get totally over-shadowed by our not so wanted chemical or galvanic reaction, but Only If, there is air (oxygen and hydrogen), or water present.

My carbon/quartz cells use no water, nor do they need any water added later, and are sealed from the outside air, and can still light leds. Series connection of multiple cells of this type will produce any voltage needed, but with practically no current. Another proof of the non-galvanic nature of this kind of led light production, is this No Current, Potential Only, type of cell. No oxidation and no current should also mean, no wearing out, and so the cells can last a very long time, dry as a bone...

NickZ

Too much water the cell will also die. Should not that be a perfect environment for only galvanic reaction, as many have already shown? Those cells needs only enough water. That is contrary to 100% galvanic I think.

A plant without air or water will not work, she will die and that is a organic organism. So to expect that a cell without air and water is indeed more than "solid state", like a plant may be? is very strange. A plant needs water and air and good water and good air.

Look, I have done hundreds of those cells in many different variations (my videos a showing almost nothing) and I clearly see a distinction in behavior as I explained above. I am not saying the cell is a plant but it is behaving like one in certain aspects. May be thinking a little bit different may help in understanding this baby.

I have enough experimentation and evidence that I concluded this not to be only galvanic but something very different also.

Some cells are purely galvanic and will behave ALWAYS as such but some are simply not. They are indeed challenging our knowledge of chemistry.

Fausto.

[ibpointless2]

I found some interesting info about John Hutinson Crystal converter from this site hutchison energy

It seems John gave a cell to someone with about 600mV and as the days passed the cell kept falling down in power all the way to 200mV.

John H Crystal Converter Log.JPG

[LetsReplicate]

anybody have salt substitute that's not made by Morton? If you do could you please post the ingredients in it. I'm trying to find what Morton's does different with there salt sub.

Siffo uses sodium ferrocynaide decahydrate (yellow prussiate of soda) as an anti-caking agent. As and decahydrate, that means it should melt when heated like alum, but when I did a heating test useing just the salt substitute there was no melting or sizzling. That tells me there isn't much of it in the mix, a dopent at best.

Odds are all the salt substitutes use the same anti-caking agent.

I'm not sure if potassium chloride is needed, potassium is in alum as well, and Diveflyfish has higher current output cells without chlorides.

[ibpointless2]

Siffo uses sodium ferrocynaide decahydrate (yellow prussiate of soda) as an anti-caking agent. As and decahydrate, that means it should melt when heated like alum, but when I did a heating test useing just the salt substitute there was no melting or sizzling. That tells me there isn't much of it in the mix, a dopent at best.

Odds are all the salt substitutes use the same anti-caking agent.

I'm not sure if potassium chloride is needed, potassium is in alum as well, and Diveflyfish has higher current output cells without chlorides.

Morton's Salt substitute does not contain the same anti-caking agent as does Siffo. So Morton's Salt sub is different from Siffo's Salt sub, so its highly important to use Morton's salt substitute. Not all salt subs are the same. Morton's salt substitute contains Potassium chloride, fumaric Acid, tricalcium phosphate and monocalcium phosphate.

Trust me, using Elmer's Glue-All, Morton's Salt substitute, and Epsom salt makes for a cell that does not need any water added to it to keep it alive. I have many cells that are several months old using this mix and are still alive with the original voltage from day one and I never added any water to them. If you add water to a cell you will kill it because water is the reason why the metals corrode.

The reason why Diveflyfish has a higher current is due to him pre-charging some cells with a battery and wetting a cell with water. All the cells I show have been dried for at least 24 hours (months on some) and will never see water again (besides whats in the air and that's why I coat them in plastic or paint). I could get higher amps if I put one drop of water onto the cell, that would lower the resistance of the crystal lattice and thus more current but I will pay for it as the metals will corrode because water will be in contact with the electrodes. The use of ZnO is very interesting and needs to be look into more as it may be promising.

We also forget that there is more than one type of alum. The alum Bedini uses does not contain potassium (i think its aluminum) and it seems to work for him and his alum cells. But Bedini's alum cells don't work unless they're wet and he uses such big electrodes the cell will last for a long time without showing any corrosion.

I really do think a crystal cell can be made with water but we all must take a step backwards and understand the galvanic process. Make some simple water batteries with small electrodes and short the cells out and keep doing this til you find a mix of water and something that keeps the electrodes alive. I've mention it before, water is attracted to electricity but is repelled by magnets, this idea can be used to protect the metals. The very fact that the water cell corrodes is due to the water being attracted to the electricity that is made from the metals. A higher concentration of water is created at the electrodes and that high concentration of water is what starts eating the metals. Find a way to expose the electrodes to a very high magnetic field and the hydrogen's of the water will turn away but the ions will still flow and best part is the metals won't corrode. For those who want a simple test to prove that water is the reason why metal corrode just stick a piece of magnesium ribbon in water (you can add alum to the water if you want) and wait a few days; remove the magnesium from the water and hold it up to a light and you'll see holes in it due to it corroding away. Water does all the Corroding and Not galvanics 02 - YouTube


Now I must figure out what else in Morton's salt substitute besides Potassium Chloride is making the cell work like it does? I'm leaning towards fumaric acid.

[LetsReplicate]

Trust me, using Elmer's Glue-All, Morton's Salt substitute, and Epsom salt makes for a cell that does not need any water added to it to keep it alive. I have many cells that are several months old using this mix and are still alive with the original voltage from day one and I never added any water to them. If you add water to a cell you will kill it because water is the reason why the metals corrode.

The problem was corrosion due to the chlorine, it broke the aluminum wire in all of the 20 or so test cells. The copper wire also developed green corrosion where it left the cell. Trust me when I say that is what happened in the 22gauge wire cells.

That is why I opted for a cell with sturdier metal leads for test cells.

We also forget that there is more than one type of alum. The alum Bedini uses does not contain potassium (i think its aluminum) and it seems to work for him and his alum cells. But Bedini's alum cells don't work unless they're wet and he uses such big electrodes the cell will last for a long time without showing any corrosion.

Alum (play /ˈæləm/) is both a specific chemical compound and a class of chemical compounds. The specific compound is the hydrated potassium aluminium sulfate (potassium alum) with the formula KAl(SO4)2·12H2O. The wider class of compounds known as alums have the related empirical formula, AB(SO4)2·12H2O.

Alum is two metals, usually potassium and aluminum. It's possible that he is using Soda alum, ammonium alum or plain aluminum sulfate but if he did he should have specified.

I really do think a crystal cell can be made with water but we all must take a step backwards and understand the galvanic process. Make some simple water batteries with small electrodes and short the cells out and keep doing this til you find a mix of water and something that keeps the electrodes alive. I've mention it before, water is attracted to electricity but is repelled by magnets, this idea can be used to protect the metals. The very fact that the water cell corrodes is due to the water being attracted to the electricity that is made from the metals. A higher concentration of water is created at the electrodes and that high concentration of water is what starts eating the metals. Find a way to expose the electrodes to a very high magnetic field and the hydrogen's of the water will turn away but the ions will still flow and best part is the metals won't corrode. For those who want a simple test to prove that water is the reason why metal corrode just stick a piece of magnesium ribbon in water (you can add alum to the water if you want) and wait a few days; remove the magnesium from the water and hold it up to a light and you'll see holes in it due to it corroding away. Water does all the Corroding and Not galvanics 02 - YouTube

There are many more oxidizing agents than just water, you could have done that test using a pure alcohol and the leads would degrade just as fast. Chlorine is a powerful oxidizer: potassium chloride in the water would corrode the magnesium extremely fast.

The repeated water evaporation helps build the crystal structure, something that does not happen in the glue cells.

Fumaric acid or trans-butenedioic acid is the chemical compound with the formula HO2CCH=CHCO2H. This white crystalline compound is one of two isomeric unsaturated dicarboxylic acids, the other being maleic acid. In fumaric acid the carboxylic acid groups are trans (E) and in maleic acid they are cis (Z). Fumaric acid has a fruit-like taste. The salts and esters are known as fumarates.
...
Fumaric acid converts to the irritant maleic anhydride, upon partial combustion.

Combustion means it eats oxygen when heated. Odds are there isn't very much of it in the mix.

Placing ground activated carbon in the cell should be just as effective, especially since it absorbs lose chlorine that will be degrading the metals, even if you can't see the corrosion because it is locked inside the cell.