Bedini Earth Light

[NickZ]

Plengo:
What has been your findings concerning the geometry of the cells? If you can expound on that a little bit.
I also find that green oxidation crusts lead to pulverized copper over time, but, I'll try the black oxide trick that John B mentioned.
NickZ

[plengo]

I agree Bedini. I am using in my cells the burned copper as you show on your videos too. It does work.

Just the Silica and bare copper in my case causes lots of BLUE not green and with time the cells stops working but as I said before geometry is important.

In my case I am separating the copper and the magnesium from the elements that corrode so I surround the Mg with paper as an example. I avoid the silica touching the copper as another example.

So geometry is key when placing the elements together in its more optimal way. It is difficult to find it. I guess, experimentation is the way here. I have tried so many variations and it is indeed making a difference in how one puts the things together.

I do think Silica does help and some of my oldests cells (see my latest video: Crystal Cell 13 - YouTube) are sill running just like the first day and they do have silica on it.

Fausto.

ps: Great video Bedini from your last conference.

[RS_]

John Bedini, and all,

Here's are the projects that Jack, Jeremy and I have been working on, while they study basic electronics's at RSU, by building Bedini circuits and making them go.....

About 3 1/2 months ago, we made 8 Bedini Magnesium-Alum-heat Treated Copper cells, and have been testing them with a 2n4401 based Bedini Fig 33 SG self oscillator, and a wall powered 556 PWM circuit driving a duel inverted cap pulser PCB test bed, alternately blinking 2 LED strings, running small DC motors, by filling up one cap while one dumps, etc...etc... and generally having fun learning what these circuits can do. We had some success pulse charging 8 AA rechargeable's in series, but not quite enough ump to charge a old 5ah 12V SLA,

these 8 crystal battery's hooked up as 2 sets of 4 in series, in parallel. After settling in and drying out, they have a open circuit voltage = 5.6V+, will run at 1.7V to 2V at 7 to 9ma bone dry..... add water and they will slowly go over 2V at about 10 to11ma,

This current test coil has to low a drive coil resistance, at 200ft #30ga for these crystal batterys, and once i get some 40ga wire, we will be winding some more coils with higher drive strand resistance to test crystal cells with, at lower drive currents and hopefully higher voltages under load

For the last 3 1/2 weeks we have been testing another 2n4401 based Bedini Fig 33 SG self oscillator, combined with a Conference Comparator Triggered cap pulser battery charger. using same test coil,

It was running on a old battery at about 9V down to 5V at around 52ma down to 40ma or so, and was slowly pushing up a older but good 5ah 12V SLA,

Currently running with a different size drive strand on the test coil, at 12.6V 120ma on a power supply, and is charging a different real old 5ah 12V SLA, and is pushing it on up.......

we are also building up a LED light fixture with 72 LEDs to test with the crystal battery's next.......

So, we would like to make some new improved crystal cell models.

I've been following along here, but still unsure of a few things to move forward.....

I am unsure how to make a oxide layer on Magnesium, and if this is helping or not. and under what circumstances if it is........? maybe i just missed the "how to" on this.......

and is a thin alum to water mix, better than a thick mix...? we made these 8 cells with a real thick mix......

What is the best Alum mixed with what ever else, for Magnesium - Treated Copper vs. straight alum...?
Fausto, I am interested in your alum / carbon mix and have crushed up activated charcoal to use

what is the best mixture for treated copper used with a Aluminum can as the neg electrode, that is better than straight alum

how to make a oxide layer on Aluminum, and if this would help or not.........?

We would like to make a compound battery, with a Magnesium center, set in a treated copper cap, sat in a Aluminum can. If we can find a good mixture for the treated copper / Aluminum. that has high Voltage and Current, As I feel that using both sides surface area of the treated copper is a good idea, and Aluminum cans are everywhere, vs, getting some Magnesium machined to size to fit over a given size copper cap or pipe, which is a lot harder to do. Some of the energy drinks have really nice thick AL cans, if i could double the current coming from a cell, by paralleling center and outside neg electrodes, While holding the same V or higher under Load, i feel that it would be worth the effort. And will do this to the current 8 cells, as well as making new ones

here are some pics of the different stages of progress

I will try to posts some you-tubes of it soon.......

RS

[ibpointless2]

Correct BUT in contact with copper it will corrode copper really fast causing it to stop current flow. That's one reason i mention geometry to be very important.

Fausto.

The water glass/sodium silicate won't corrode the a copper that fast, in-fact it contains copper dust in the water glass. Its block sealer and they put small pieces of copper in it to displace the heat quicker. If you re-watch the video you'll see the liquid has a copper like color to it. So i'm sure water glass and copper go good together. Its the magnesium that corrodes and that's what we should be looking after.

I got home today from work and the magnesium strip that's in the water glass still looks new but it seems the water glass is evaporating?

[ibpointless2]

The sodium silicate (water glass) has not corroded the magnesium yet. When i play with the water glass i notice that magnesium and copper electrodes don't give a much greater reading than aluminum and copper. i use to the crystal glue cell voltages where a copper and aluminum crystal glue cell will give 500mV and a copper and magnesium crystal glue cell will give 1.4 volts. But a copper and aluminum water glass cell gives 1.120 volts while the copper and magnesium water glass cell gives 1.320 volts and drops off quick to 1.2 volts. Aluminum and magnesium are very far apart on the galvanic charts and I don't understand why they give almost the same voltages. If i were to stick the same copper and magnesium electrodes in water i would get almost 1.790 volts and if I were to place the same aluminum and copper electrodes in water I would get 1.2 volts. Even Zinc is some what close to one volt.

I have added some salt substitute and Epsom salt to the water glass and it did dissolve into it for the most part but it seems it had little affect on the voltages. This water glass is some odd stuff.

[John_Bedini]

Some answers Crystal cell

Ok, will answer some questions here. First Sodium Silicate if you do the
research you will find that this when cooked becomes very caustic, this is what you want as you can dissolve any of the two metals in it if the temp is kept at a constant rate until you form a new material. So see you have just doped it and it can be re melted into the mix of whatever your using.

Everybody needs really to think this cell through.

Alum and the Carbonates are going to give you the most power so it is one or the other doped that will give the best results.

All my Heptahydrate cells are still going and supply the most current between 8 Ma at the low end to 50 Ma at the high end. Chuck and I never turn them off. Marcus Reid's cells stays constant at 2Ma and that is for ten years now on the cells he gave me. The circuits used with these cells is very important if your using Oscillators like me, but as I said we never turn them off at work. I plan on showing a 14inch diameter Alum cell lighting a room up without any power at the next conference.

If your going to make something then do it big time so you have something, You know spend the money on good material. Think if your power goes off "Hint" some light would be better then fussing around with some old candle, or maybe you prefer the dark ages. The point is junk is junk so use good stuff, and not that Magnesium ribbon crap.
John B

[plengo]

Good point Bedini. Make it big very big. I am trying my best to get there with all sort of things. My biggest cell is a 12" pipe. It does gives a good amount of current.

Mg ribbon is really not good. I also agree with that. I found a good source of Mg at RotorMetals and the price is not bad BUT it does come with that iron in the center. So again I am looking into geometries that does not touch or let that iron deteriorate the whole process. Very pure Mg is expensive.

I am so desperately trying to get my room lit using LEDs and those cells that I probably made some 30 cells so far and my wife is quite piss at me because they never turn off, so they do make things very shinning in the night.

I am not satisfied with what I have done power wise yet but this is becoming very promising even if the metals die after one year of usage. So far the good formulas have not died and the good cells are running since last year pretty good.

Some of my cells I had to open to see the level of corrosion and to my surprise I was able to even use the Mg again in a new cells since the corrosion was only tiny and superficial. Alum builds up like crazy and stops all the corrosion going forward when it crystalizes. At least that is my findings so far.


Fausto.

[ibpointless2]

Ok, will answer some questions here. First Sodium Silicate if you do the
research you will find that this when cooked becomes very caustic, this is what you want as you can dissolve any of the two metals in it if the temp is kept at a constant rate until you form a new material. So see you have just doped it and it can be re melted into the mix of whatever your using.

Everybody needs really to think this cell through.

Alum and the Carbonates are going to give you the most power so it is one or the other doped that will give the best results.

All my Heptahydrate cells are still going and supply the most current between 8 Ma at the low end to 50 Ma at the high end. Chuck and I never turn them off. Marcus Reid's cells stays constant at 2Ma and that is for ten years now on the cells he gave me. The circuits used with these cells is very important if your using Oscillators like me, but as I said we never turn them off at work. I plan on showing a 14inch diameter Alum cell lighting a room up without any power at the next conference.

If your going to make something then do it big time so you have something, You know spend the money on good material. Think if your power goes off "Hint" some light would be better then fussing around with some old candle, or maybe you prefer the dark ages. The point is junk is junk so use good stuff, and not that Magnesium ribbon crap.
John B

Hi John Bedini, I have tried this going big idea. I have a 5 foot tall 1/2 copper tube cell that I use to power my clock. Powering a clock is nothing great but the cell never needs a drop of water to run so that makes me happy.

In your crystal cell lecture video you mention that we need to use Magnesium anodes that they put in the ground but you never really tell us where to get them. You say just search on the internet for that but that doesn't really help. Do you have a certain website you go to or at least a search term we can go by? You also mention in the video that old telegraph's were powered by similar batteries, do have this reading material available to download?

Going big is not a problem. The reason why I use magnesium ribbon is that its cheap and it doesn't lie. The thin magnesium ribbon will show right away if it going to corrode or not. I've been more into testing and theory lately with these cells, but that "hint" you gave us is very understanding. I will be making bigger cells no doubt about it, but I just need to find big electrodes first. I really want to have a LED lamp that's powered by a Crystal cell; this will be my 2012 goal. I see a lot of potential in sodium silicate.

@all
A little heads up on Wednesday the 18 2012 many websites may be down such as Wikipedia to protest SOPA. SOPA is bad and if it gets passed many of our opensource work will be destroyed. Just giving you guys a heads up.

[John_Bedini]

anodes

Ibpointless,
Yes sodium silicate is a hydrate and if you combine a heptahydrate with it you can lock it up. I like to turn mine to magnesium silicate by cooking it. DO it outside you do it.
I will get you the information on anodes, mine are very big about 2 1/4 " in diameter each rod. I have copper bowls 14" in diameter that I'm going to use.
John B

[jehdds]

Hi John,
Have you ever added Sodium Polyacrylate into your alum type cell as an intermediary layer to provide sustained and EXTENSIVE retention of water for your cell?
The stuff holds an incredible amount of moisture. I just was wondering if you have tested or tried to combine the two to allow for a greater interval between watering. It takes a VERY small amount of the anhydrous polyacrylate to do the job. Thanks for any insight on that idea. Have you made any ZnO based cells? As you can see, I am still trying to optimize them. Thank you again for your feedback to this thread.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

This sodium silicate stuff keeps on getting more and more interesting. So I have two cups with copper and magnesium ribbon submerged in the sodium silicate and they're shorted out. In one cup is just plain sodium silicate (water glass) with its electrodes shorted out, and after one night of shorting out the electrodes still look fine and show no corrosion. In the other cup is sodium silicate too but it has salt substitute and Epsom salt in it as well. This cup number two is shorted out like cup one but something very different happen to it over night. Cup two looks like it has developed a oxide layer, this is not corrosion because the metal is still whole and does not have any metals flaking off and also its build on top of the magnesium. Also cup two still gives me the regular voltage of around 1.2V and its over 1mA too, so its like nothing change except the layer of oxide. After seeing corrosion so many times its nice to see something like a oxide layer develop instead of the metal slowly disappearing. I also have magnesium in a cup of water and it has now corroded but this was my control. this sodium silicate is a real winner in my eyes.

John Bedini, Are you saying to melt the sodium silicate with the Magnesium to make it into one? How would I combine it with the copper? Just re-heat it again? Is it better to have the sodium silicate as a liquid or a solid? To me a liquid's have always given the best amps readings. Don't the Reid cells have some liquid in them, maybe its a combination of dry and liquid sodium silicate?

[ibpointless2]

A bit of bad news. The cup I had Sodium silicate with some salts in it has corroded the magnesium and some of the copper. The corrosion was so bad that when I removed the magnesium from the cup it broke in half. The magnesium did build up a oxide layer to protect itself but it seems that it was not enough. So adding salts is not the best idea.

The cup with only sodium silicate in it still has its electrodes looking like new but the magnesium is developing a oxide layer much like the cell with the salt in it but its forming where the sodium silicate meets the air. This is not a problem as their is ways to stop this from happening. The bad new is that this cell is only giving 30uA while the one that had salts added to it was giving over 1mA. Now i am worried, i fear that the cell will corrode away too but will take longer.

I also took a big piece of aluminum and heated some sodium silicate on it. The sodium silicate really does bubble a lot and I assume its all the water being released from it. I kept heating it till it stop bubbling and stuck my copper electrode in. I let it cool down and all i'm getting it 9mV. So it seems the water glass is useless without the water. I'm starting to loose hope in sodium silicate.

[ibpointless2]

The problem is not in what mix we use, whether it be a crystal mix or a water mix. The problem is with our electrodes. If you use the right electrodes you won't have to worry about corrosion. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Karpen's_Pile_--_A_Battery_That_Has_Produced_Energy_Continuously_S ince_1950s

You can use what ever you want to use if you use the correct electrodes. The even bigger question is where do you get the correct electrodes for cheap? We need to make custom electrodes that have the best features of magnesium but don't corrode like magnesium.

[mikrovolt]

Which heptahydrates will work with John's cells.
Could it be related to metal silicates used as a conductive strain relieving layer in piezo transistors ? Or could it be related to a process used in semiconductors that John was familiar with long ago.

I think it is simple but maybe not soda ash but more like when he doped a mix heavily with selenium, the kiln set about 850C then after that I could not guess what was a the hepita. But there are limited number of hepta hydrates
and this is where we are and without kiln.

[ibpointless2]

If you use the right electrodes you don't need to worry about them corroding, just like how the Karpen Pile works. The Karpen Pile uses gold and platinum electrodes which will not corrode and its been running for over 60 years now. I'm sure their is a mix of crystals out their that won't damage the electrodes and give a continuous output of power, case in point the Marcus Reid cells.

So finding the correct mix can be just as important as finding the right electrode. I have come up with a idea that uses a anode that doesn't corrode easily. What Has been on this earth for billions of years, is everywhere, and cheap? Rocks! I know it sounds crazy but rocks would be a great anode. Mother nature has given us a great anode to use, they hold up very well and to all types of weather and many are found under the ocean so we know they can handle salt water. Different rocks will give different voltages and amps but so far the ones out of my driveway give me 350mV when I use it with copper. This is not bad. The key will be finding the correct rock that gives us the most power. The rock should hold up well in a water solution since its been dealing with water and all types of weather for billions of years.

Now I know John Bedini you use to go searching for rocks when you were younger, what would you suggest to be a good rock anode?