Bedini Earth Light

[Allwest]

After seeing all the talk on how water breaks down everything imaginable with no way to stop corrosion - I've noticed applying heat to my cells after they have been activated causes a rather substantial rise in mA. Would it make more sense to try and find combinations that would increase amperage when heat is applied rather than continuing down the road of corrosion? I could see several cells together in a black box absorbing heat in the sun producing more power than the water cells I've been reading about on here. Thoughts?

Hi BrOnsON,

I have noticed the same thing, but I have also noticed that when these cells dry out completely and you apply heat, it does little to raise the amps

I found moist heat has the best results

Best of luck

[Nick_Z]

It is also important to keep in mind the purpose of the semiconductor type cell, which uses the burnt copper, and treated magnesium. As it's not only the oxidation factor at play, caused by moisture when watering the cells, or from the air. But, the idea is to not allow the electrons through, only Ions, as the electron flow is a contributing factor in the break down of the metals, and related galvanic reduction problems. Ions don't wear away at the metals in the same way. This will help with longer lasting results, although the hydrogen gas build up on the positive pole, is also still present and needs to be dealt with through the use of a depolarizer. The stronger the output that is obtained from the cells, the more these factors will effect the results.
I see no other alternatives in sight, so far.

[ibpointless2]

@ibpointless

You do realize that of course the magnesium will corrode because you aren't using semi-conductive copper. And Bedini has practically shouted it from the rooftops I've heard it so many times, DO NOT USE MAGNESIUM RIBBON, it's surface structure is pitted and presents weak spots for corrosion. It's not a matter of "it's thin so it will give me a quick result", your data will be flawed from the start. Only 99.9% PURE Magnesium! It's similar to PET plastic, sulfuric acid can be safely stored in it. Normally you would think, Oh acid would eat through plastic. And you're right, but the STRUCTURE of PET doesn't allow it. So you can't keep sticking pitted ribbon in cups of water and draw conclusions from that!

Bedini mention "The tartar will Clean the copper and put a coating on the magnesium." So tartar will clean the copper? You only clean copper when you want it shinny, semiconductive copper is not shinny and to make it shinny removes its semiconductive properties. Plus the magnesium still corrodes by itself without using copper.

Like i said before, if you can make a cell that doesn't corrode using magnesium ribbon, which so happens to be 99.98 pure, then you have made a good cell. If the magnesium ribbon doesn't corrode than the big magnesium rods won't corrode either.

All i'm trying to say is that we must provide proof of what we say is true. If its not corroding then show me the data. We can't just throw out the scientific method, we must be truthful with our selves.

When I get my big 99.99% magnesium rods in I will repeat the test once again to confirm what I said. If I was wrong then I will admit it.

also on the sulfuric acid you would think it would eat cardboard but it doesn't but it will eat concrete.

[ibpointless2]

Hi BrOnsON,

I have noticed the same thing, but I have also noticed that when these cells dry out completely and you apply heat, it does little to raise the amps

I found moist heat has the best results

Best of luck

Heat lowers the internal resistance which raises the amps. Adding water to a dry cell also lowers the internal resistance and raises the amps.

[b_rads]

Cream of Tartar and Alum

Just for general information: use this as you see fit.
I remember my mother mixing vinegar with cream of tartar into a paste and using that to clean her silver.

Mixing cream of tartar with alum will adjust the solubility and hydrolysis of salts used in dyeing fabrics.

What is Hydrolysis?
(water) + (separation) ~ when adding water to alum and cream of tartar, the water is split into (H+) and (OH-). Since cream of tartar is actually the potassium acid salt of tartaric acid, this is your depolarizer. The hydrogen attaches itself to this acid rather than accumulating on the electrodes. This is still very much a redox action taking place with the action of splitting water and reducing resistance in the cell.

This is not necessarily a bad thing if it makes a useful cell. This is actually quite a nice fuel cell having the components: catalyst, electrolyte, and electrodes.

Brad

[Nick_Z]

@ Brad:
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, the shinny metal won't last long on a higher output cell. This we has seen. So, two things must happen to try to avoid the normal reaction. First the two metals involved must have a protective oxide layer, one that does not conduct normal electricity, and also a depolarizer is essential to maintain the cell at optimum operating output.
Solar cells, which produce great current output, and don't ever oxidize are the best example of a fully working system. Semiconductors are the key to future success, otherwise it's back to watching our cells all turn into mush.

[ibpointless2]

My big 99.99% pure Magnesium rods came in today. I have taken one and placed it shorted out with a copper wire that has been turned into a semiconductor copper. They sit in the alum, cream of tartar, and distilled water mix. Lost of bubbles form from this which lead me to think its corroding just like the magnesium ribbon was. the amount of bubbles created worry me as these bubbles might be hydrogen which is flammable. The rod weights 31 grams and 15.75 to 15.82 mm is the thickness. If the rod corrodes then It will be fair to use magnesium ribbon instead of rods because if the rod corrodes then the magnesium ribbon will corrode too and Vice versa.

If you can make a cell that doesn't corrode magnesium ribbon than it won't corrode magnesium rod and that is why i use magnesium ribbon.

[cgalvisardila]

Pulse Charging On Alum Batteries/sg Oscillator

Hi all, i was playing around last night with an Alum battery that has had no water for 3 days and the light was completely dead. however, i noticed that pulsing the contact with the led, it shines for a very brief moment, and it shines at full brightness. so i started pulsing it manually for a while using different patterns and saw that after a while of pulsing action the led started to come back slowly at first and more and more as more pulsing took place. i could bring back the light to almost full brightness WITHOUT ADDING WATER. the charge kept going for about one or two hours. i wonder if adding a pulsing signal to the circuit can improve the performance of these batteries, and also try to figure out what is causing this, given that the battery is releasing barely any current. reminds me a little of what Mr. Bedini talks about on the dVD on Tesla impulse technology... could it be one of those radiant nodes across the coil caused by the faint pulses from the alum battery? see for yourselves:

sg oscillator pulse charge - YouTube

carlos

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

I built the alum crystal battery since a couple of days now and It does some weird things! A copper cap with the black/red/pink oxide, mag rod and melted alum. First, when you melt the alum in the blackened copper cap, you will notice that the oxide mixes with the alum paste and it turns pinky. Let the paste warming on the stove at 150 degres fareinheight until it foams then let It cools down. It will become hard like a rock. Connect an blocking oscillator to run a led. It will be bright at first then it will dim. After 2-3 days, put 2-4 drops of water and it will be at full brightness again. The weird thing that i can notice is after a couples of cycles (wet/rest/dry) you don't have to wet it so often and it stays bright for longer. The weirdest thing that I can see is if I scratch the side of the magnesium, there is some whites tubes or nano-tubes that grows on it and I wonder if it's not an ion exchanger of some kind or a catalist to burn the water for power...The Marcus reid cells had a pinky or reddish color on top. Maybe it was the cuppric and cuppous oxides mixed with melted alum?? The trick is to do long test runs. It's a little cell with little alum in it. I can see easily if the mag is corroding. IB: the bubbling is not hydrogen gas, it's just co2 to form the magnesium carbonate (the white **** that corrodes the magnesium). If you melt the alum to form a crystal, you will notice that the bubbling stops after a while even when you add little water to it.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Hi all, i was playing around last night with an Alum battery that has had no water for 3 days and the light was completely dead. however, i noticed that pulsing the contact with the led, it shines for a very brief moment, and it shines at full brightness. so i started pulsing it manually for a while using different patterns and saw that after a while of pulsing action the led started to come back slowly at first and more and more as more pulsing took place. i could bring back the light to almost full brightness WITHOUT ADDING WATER. the charge kept going for about one or two hours. i wonder if adding a pulsing signal to the circuit can improve the performance of these batteries, and also try to figure out what is causing this, given that the battery is releasing barely any current. reminds me a little of what Mr. Bedini talks about on the dVD on Tesla impulse technology... could it be one of those radiant nodes across the coil caused by the faint pulses from the alum battery? see for yourselves:

sg oscillator pulse charge - YouTube

carlos

I added an 2.2 uf 50v cap in series with the LED and this cap is in parallel with an 10 meg variable resistor to do the pulsing. It does the trick!! To add power some more I added an 100 uf 10v cap in parallel with the crystal cell. It does improve the pulsing even more!

[ibpointless2]

My big 99.99% pure Magnesium rods came in today. I have taken one and placed it shorted out with a copper wire that has been turned into a semiconductor copper. They sit in the alum, cream of tartar, and distilled water mix. Lost of bubbles form from this which lead me to think its corroding just like the magnesium ribbon was. the amount of bubbles created worry me as these bubbles might be hydrogen which is flammable. The rod weights 31 grams and 15.75 to 15.82 mm is the thickness. If the rod corrodes then It will be fair to use magnesium ribbon instead of rods because if the rod corrodes then the magnesium ribbon will corrode too and Vice versa.

If you can make a cell that doesn't corrode magnesium ribbon than it won't corrode magnesium rod and that is why i use magnesium ribbon.

I'm going to report on what happen to the magnesium rod overnight. The rod thickness where its not in the water is around 15.75 but the thickness that's in the water is around 15.30mm. Its gotten physical thinner but something interesting happen. The salts seem to settle at the bottom and when they do that it seems the bubbles almost stop. No bubbles could mean no corrosion. With the salts at the bottom the cell is at 1.6 volts @ 30mA easily. It seems the reaction could have slowed down or stopped but i'm not sure until i run the test for a little longer. mixing the salts back up in the water does create more bubbles but its less bubbles when it started.

[Nick_Z]

Once a oxide layer forms on the mag on its own, the gassing may slow down somewhat.
Both metals need the oxide layer that is totally non conductive to electrons.

In testing a previously made Carbon/Al cell that is now months old I found it is showing a higher voltage than when is was first made. Now, at 1.350 volts, and 6mA, the important observation is the the center positive pole which is stainless steel is showing NO Oxidation, at all. Since this cell also contain silica gel pellets, it is constantly dripping salt water, and actually forming salty puddles, right through the cell which has only tape with pin holes on the bottom, so non stop puddles are forming on their bottoms for months. I have to place a cup to catch this excess water, or it will damage the table that they are sitting on. No additional waterings were ever needed, but I did at times add few drops of sea water to replace their original salt content levels, but that was also months ago.
I also have another cell similar to the one mentioned above that has a positive pole out of carbon rod, instead of the stainless steel, and it shows 1.2volts, and 32 mA. Again this cell is also many months old. Both work and both had been made with just plain sea water added to the activated carbon and beach sand mix, then left mostly untouched. The silica really helps to keep these cells damp or even dripping wet, and the more humidity there is in the air, the more these cell absorb it like a sponge.

[cgalvisardila]

I added an 2.2 uf 50v cap in series with the LED and this cap is in parallel with an 10 meg variable resistor to do the pulsing. It does the trick!! To add power some more I added an 100 uf 10v cap in parallel with the crystal cell. It does improve the pulsing even more!

thanks for the tip! ill try it...

ib,

john has stated many times about the ribbon, it's not good for testing because it's not pure, everyone that sells it says its 98% or 99.9999% or something like that, but that doesn't mean it is really pure, you could put whatever on the label, only testing it will give you the truth. i have a rod from an anode as recomended by john, that i'm testing in a paste of alum and cream of tartar with a semiconductor copper plate. there's a white layer forming on the rod, no denting or destructive corrosion no eating up, it's been 5 days, we'll see on the long run. i did the same test a while ago with the ribbon and it vanished in 2 days... clearly its not the same thing. it seems that other metals and material in the ribbon do react very agressively with alum, iron specially gets a beating, but for some reason Mg and FIRED SEMICONDUCTIVE COPPER do real well in alum...

cheers
carlos

[br0ns0n77]

Joule Thief Modification Question

Hey guys - I'm wanting to use a joule thief circuit on something besides an LED with my cells. I'm attaching a photo of the circuit with some notes. Instead of using the pos/neg leads on the LED, I'm attaching two wires in the place of it. I wanted to use those to connect to other devices such as a radio etc. For some reason I can't get it to work. Any ideas on how to do this?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[ibpointless2]

thanks for the tip! ill try it...

ib,

john has stated many times about the ribbon, it's not good for testing because it's not pure, everyone that sells it says its 98% or 99.9999% or something like that, but that doesn't mean it is really pure, you could put whatever on the label, only testing it will give you the truth. i have a rod from an anode as recomended by john, that i'm testing in a paste of alum and cream of tartar with a semiconductor copper plate. there's a white layer forming on the rod, no denting or destructive corrosion no eating up, it's been 5 days, we'll see on the long run. i did the same test a while ago with the ribbon and it vanished in 2 days... clearly its not the same thing. it seems that other metals and material in the ribbon do react very agressively with alum, iron specially gets a beating, but for some reason Mg and FIRED SEMICONDUCTIVE COPPER do real well in alum...

cheers
carlos

I'm doing the same test again but with 99.99% pure magnesium rod. The electrolyte is alum, cream of tartar, and distilled water. The starting thickness of the magnesium rod is 15.75mm on 8-29-12 and weighs 31 grams. Today 8-31-12 the rod thickness is as low as 14.90mm and weighs 30 grams. I made the copper into semiconductor copper. Magnesium ribbon is very pure, its got to be if you want to set it on fire. Since magnesium is at the very end of the chart of electronegative metals any other metal added to it will lower its electronegative, the more magnesium it is the more electronegative it is.

My whole problem with this whole thing is that people say its not corroding but they don't provide the data that its not corroding. I provided number such as thickness and weight of the magnesium to show a decay in it. You can't simple say its not corroding because it doesn't look like its corroding.

I'm not going to post anymore on this type of cell as people don't care about the results i get from doing the corrosion testing. I have built cells that don't corrode the magnesium ribbon so it is possible to use magnesium ribbon as a anode and not have it corrode.