Bedini Earth Light

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

We are on something.

John It's to soon to tell but it looked like the stator motor in the earlier video I posted might be able to run well past the rated capacity of the battery. The feedback from generator coil seems to really like the impedance of the alum cells. To early to say for sure but I'll see.
Thanks John
John Hav.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on this as I'm currently testing this theory as well on my setup. It seems like this thing cannot live very long without the proper impedence matching. John said these things all along but very few people were really aware of this. It's now time to understand the phenomena and replicate!

[John_Bedini]

Prigogine system

John Hav, CrystalDipoleMatrix,
The battery can live a long time in the crystal form and continue to supply current at it's level of operation.Impedance is ever changing with this type of cell, it's like a switch between levels. Remember what I said a long time ago here about the Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This is what your seeing, it's not understood by most but the system can be liner in one direction and nonliner in the other direction such as in a discharge condition. why is that, the lead wants to do one thing the crystal another. I knew sooner or later someone would see this effect. I did say early in in the posts what it was. I have been looking at this for a very long time The Alum battery with lead fits the ticket. You both have seen the light in what is going on.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Similarities with the ''reac'' in Ossie Callanan free energy device.

I do think we can compare the crystal battery to the ''old dead sulfated battery REAC'' in Ossie's system. Ossie was able to run non-stop his pulse motor and be able to recharge it's own batteries with it. The ''REAC'' was simply put in parralel with the charging ''good battery'' and created the impedance mismatch or matching (I don't know) between the good and bad battery that created an effect of sulfated battery becoming a kind of ''infinite source of power''. Worth investigating!

[Allwest]

negative entropy

To All

Good discussion point John

I have thought of using negative entropy for obtaining power

(The growing of crystals and such), but have not figured out how to do this

Has any body done this?

negative entropy fights (over powers) entropy in some cases

Are we seeing this in some of the cells? with power fluctuations


Best of luck

[mikrovolt]

In 1977 IIya Prigogine was awarded nobel prize in chemistry.
Dissipative system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[DadHav]

Load tests

John Hav, CrystalDipoleMatrix,
The battery can live a long time in the crystal form and continue to supply current at it's level of operation.Impedance is ever changing with this type of cell, it's like a switch between levels. Remember what I said a long time ago here about the Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This is what your seeing, it's not understood by most but the system can be liner in one direction and nonliner in the other direction such as in a discharge condition. why is that, the lead wants to do one thing the crystal another. I knew sooner or later someone would see this effect. I did say early in in the posts what it was. I have been looking at this for a very long time The Alum battery with lead fits the ticket. You both have seen the light in what is going on.

Hello John. I hope what you mention is the case. I'll try to confirm what we suspect and document the facts in a video. I'm currently checking the self discharge rate of the 1.3 ah alum battery. From a full charge the rate was a little high .1 volt in the first week but it slowed way down to almost nothing. As a matter of fact it became far less than my LAB's I'll turn the info into a graph and post it. I have my 7 ah clear case battery cycling at this time and I'm getting ready to try a few more tests.
Thanks John
Take care.
John Hav.

[John_Bedini]

changing impedance in the cells

JohnHav,
I just point this out because others have seen this also. In my lab we have one battery that has been hanging at 2.78 volts for over a week now and fluxuating at the level of the diodes. I put the battery in a video. My mix is much different in this battery of which I explained on the Energy Science Forum. I will be posting a video of how I mixed the chemicals. This effect is very responsive to any kind of discharge and temp. Fausto's Chart also shows that. Chuck has a Crystal cell that he put on a video that has been running for over 3 weeks now under load at 45 Ma, it has out run his ni-cad. To match the impedance of the cell is very important. The mixture is also very important. Early in this group I said this would happen. Alum can do some things with metals people have not really explored. It's not that there are no Lead Alkaline batteries, many can be found but the balance of the chemicals is very important as it is a must in all the patents. In a solid crystal cell it is not reachable as it will degrade the components. That cell can draw from the environment and continue to power led's and oscillators but not with much power, 2 to 5 Ma. In the aqueous solution it must be balanced as the lead battery's chemistry will not build that balance, you must balance it. When I watch most of the videos of people doing this conversion I see nobody balancing the PH of the chemicals. Do yourself an experiment, Mix up your Alum in a clear state and start to add Sulfuric Acid watch what happens if right it will lock into crystals, Then you will know. The Alum Lead Battery is much different in the voltage and impedance if it were Lead Acid it would stand at 12.67 volts. But The Alum battery at the highest level can only stand at 11.34 or so and some at 9.35 that is depending on the lead plates in the battery. All your calculations must be adjusted in amp hrs at that Voltage the cells work at, then you must figure the impedance of the cells as they are in series and you will find what is across each one, voltage wise, Kirchhoff's Law. Only then can someone run a proper test on this battery. I always look at this as the voltage across each component is important. I bring up "Piigogine" because of the changing impedance in the cells, keep changing from one state to another, it's not stable unless it is balanced out. If in a crystal state you have much different problems to solve with this effect. I have out run my batteries capacity at the lab but it is far from dead.
I'm getting to old to keep trying to explain all this.

[plengo]

Guys,

I found out something absolutely amazing in the Lead-Alum cell. You are not going to believe me. I will hopefully make a video and show it, but for now here is the experiment.

I have a cell under a very long time charge/discharge process using Arduino controlling 2 relays. One relay turn ON/OFF the power input to the cell, to charge it. The other relay turns ON/OFF the output power FROM the cell, when it is not charging, to the load. Load is a small motor.

Arduino, switches both relays at the same time at specific intervals of time, such as 3 minutes charging and no load, than switches to 6 minutes under load and no charge. So the cell is constantly, in days, being charged and discharged unto a load. All recorded in graphs using a meter that sends the data to the laptop.

So far, basic stuff.

Then I noticed that the cell will go as low as 25mv at a constant current of 10 to 20 miliamps indefinitely with motor as load. Than the charging time comes and the cell starts charging back up to the voltage assigned, in my experiment is around 3 volts now the input power and usually uses 90ma to charge the cell. (This cell has 2 Lead plates and the crystal mixture as electrolyte).

Than the interesting stuff, I decided to change the load (which was a small motor) for an Oscillator (like the ones used by Bedini or Lidmotor or Jule-Thief) while the voltage of the cell was the lowest voltage, around 230mv at a constant 10ma or so of power coming out from the cell.

As soon as I disconnected the motor and connected the Oscillator I notice a great variation on the output power of the cell (in watts). I than, turned off the Arduino and let the cell only in discharge mode and I repeated the switching of the load many times until The Effect happend, here is the data before and after the Effect:

"Before Effect"
1) Load is the motor: cell voltage is around 230mv (mili-volts) and current is around 10ma, than swtich to
2) Load is Oscillator: cell voltage goes up to .5v and current is around 5ma.

I reapeat the above many times until this happens:

After Effect
1) back to Motor as load: cell voltage is .5v and current is around 47ma, for a long period of time and than it comes back to stage "Before Effect".

I can repeat the this many more times and I am not sure where is the end.

What I think it is really happening is that the cell "enters a resonant mode with the coils in the little motor", causing the cell to re-use the back-EMF (at least) back to itself and sustain the load.

Fausto.


ps: video of the effect - Crystal Cell 32 - YouTube

[stonewater]

please read this again everyone

John Hav, CrystalDipoleMatrix,
The battery can live a long time in the crystal form and continue to supply current at it's level of operation.Impedance is ever changing with this type of cell, it's like a switch between levels. Remember what I said a long time ago here about the Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This is what your seeing, it's not understood by most but the system can be liner in one direction and nonliner in the other direction such as in a discharge condition. why is that, the lead wants to do one thing the crystal another. I knew sooner or later someone would see this effect. I did say early in in the posts what it was. I have been looking at this for a very long time The Alum battery with lead fits the ticket. You both have seen the light in what is going on.

who wants an energy source that can tap the vacuum? crystal batts to power and SG that never has to be shut down? why not backpop the primary seeing as how these crystal batts charge sooo fast!!

Tom C

[DadHav]

JohnHav,
I just point this out because others have seen this also. In my lab we have one battery that has been hanging at 2.78 volts for over a week now and fluxuating at the level of the diodes. I put the battery in a video. My mix is much different in this battery of which I explained on the Energy Science Forum. I will be posting a video of how I mixed the chemicals. This effect is very responsive to any kind of discharge and temp. Fausto's Chart also shows that. Chuck has a Crystal cell that he put on a video that has been running for over 3 weeks now under load at 45 Ma, it has out run his ni-cad. To match the impedance of the cell is very important. The mixture is also very important. Early in this group I said this would happen. Alum can do some things with metals people have not really explored. It's not that there are no Lead Alkaline batteries, many can be found but the balance of the chemicals is very important as it is a must in all the patents. In a solid crystal cell it is not reachable as it will degrade the components. That cell can draw from the environment and continue to power led's and oscillators but not with much power, 2 to 5 Ma. In the aqueous solution it must be balanced as the lead battery's chemistry will not build that balance, you must balance it. When I watch most of the videos of people doing this conversion I see nobody balancing the PH of the chemicals. Do yourself an experiment, Mix up your Alum in a clear state and start to add Sulfuric Acid watch what happens if right it will lock into crystals, Then you will know. The Alum Lead Battery is much different in the voltage and impedance if it were Lead Acid it would stand at 12.67 volts. But The Alum battery at the highest level can only stand at 11.34 or so and some at 9.35 that is depending on the lead plates in the battery. All your calculations must be adjusted in amp hrs at that Voltage the cells work at, then you must figure the impedance of the cells as they are in series and you will find what is across each one, voltage wise, Kirchhoff's Law. Only then can someone run a proper test on this battery. I always look at this as the voltage across each component is important. I bring up "Piigogine" because of the changing impedance in the cells, keep changing from one state to another, it's not stable unless it is balanced out. If in a crystal state you have much different problems to solve with this effect. I have out run my batteries capacity at the lab but it is far from dead.
I'm getting to old to keep trying to explain all this.

John, I don't want to be a burden to you and have you keep explaining things over and over again. Thanks for you consideration.
Ha, wait a minute I can't let you off that easy. I think I'm getting it. There's a state of confusion withing the cell at a certain condition. If you can operate a load at that point or have the load be responsible for the switching of the reaction then the battery will far exceed expectations. Capture and release of the sulfuric acid by the alum crystals? Also there could be a separate incidence with the diodes switching on an off at the lower voltage range of the battery. Impedance matching in combination with the the proper mix to let everything happen is a balancing act.
J

[John_Bedini]

DadHav,
Your right it is not that easy and it is a balancing act with this battery chemistry. This battery is almost like a monkey on type rope. Yes It's a fine line with the balance and impedance also. I'm running another test but I keep making mistakes for some reason today. I just gave up and have gone home. I can only tell you what I did with it. I only came back to converting lead batteries because of lidmotor with the solder video. If you just do it without forming the impedance is too high my B&K says one thing and the calculations on the internet say something else. Like 1 to 5 ohms, but that depends on the load, I would want to see .023 Ohms. The trigger for the crystal mix I have seen it release water at about 10.50 volts in charge condition, the cell I made by hand. In the discharge condition it starts locking things up and the water level goes back down to 1/2 liquid state. I can not stand and watch when that happens it takes too long and it's midnight when I get going home. I can not see into the WallMart batteries or the car batteries. I do know what the chemical is when dried out, that is Zeolite Sodium Aluminum Silicate. The other thing is the standing voltage is too low for 12 volt circuits but not with what I'm doing with it, it's the only reason I'm even messing with it. I think after the battery is out of the charge condition this happens no matter what, very intriguing battery, good group project. Having these batteries around the shop for a very long time way before this discussion took place I can see that they last a very long time without problems, the problems of a Lead Acid Battery. With what you have put together for motors that run on super caps your models should run for years, can't ask for anything more that that. It's just trying to get people to understand how it works and why. When at flat zero voltage they will come back not like lead acid it just takes time and with batteries everything is in hours waiting.

[plengo]

Another great video from Bedini is in youtube (Mixing Chemicals for Hydrate Cell 9 John Bedin &i Chuck Hupp - YouTube.

Today I noticed something interesting in my crystal mix. A certain remaining crystal cell mix was just sitting for days unattended at my lab when today I noticed it was finally crystallizing.

Upon revolving it with a plastic spoon it would not loose its crystalization neither the rate of crystalization. It was obvious in hours it would become hard like a rock.

I added a tinny little bit of distilled water and the whole thing collapsed into a marsh of water with crystals. It became really fast a liquid with good consistency and the tinny ball of crystals just sitting under the water. Not much water neither little. Just the right amount to convert the rigid crystalline structure into a liquid. No excess of water to be extracted neither it needed more to become more liquid.

In other words, more liquid state would only become like sediments in the bottom of a pool.

This crystal mix has a high rate of collapse of solid into liquid with water as a catalyst (and most probably - electric current too) as the trigger.



Since my last video (Crystal Cell 32 - YouTube) I started testing which point of input energy is enough to charge the cell and have the best output of power ratio possible (to my limits off course).

Fausto.

[DadHav]

DadHav,
Your right it is not that easy and it is a balancing act with this battery chemistry. This battery is almost like a monkey on type rope. Yes It's a fine line with the balance and impedance also. I'm running another test but I keep making mistakes for some reason today. I just gave up and have gone home. I can only tell you what I did with it. I only came back to converting lead batteries because of lidmotor with the solder video. If you just do it without forming the impedance is too high my B&K says one thing and the calculations on the internet say something else. Like 1 to 5 ohms, but that depends on the load, I would want to see .023 Ohms. The trigger for the crystal mix I have seen it release water at about 10.50 volts in charge condition, the cell I made by hand. In the discharge condition it starts locking things up and the water level goes back down to 1/2 liquid state. I can not stand and watch when that happens it takes too long and it's midnight when I get going home. I can not see into the WallMart batteries or the car batteries. I do know what the chemical is when dried out, that is Zeolite Sodium Aluminum Silicate. The other thing is the standing voltage is too low for 12 volt circuits but not with what I'm doing with it, it's the only reason I'm even messing with it. I think after the battery is out of the charge condition this happens no matter what, very intriguing battery, good group project. Having these batteries around the shop for a very long time way before this discussion took place I can see that they last a very long time without problems, the problems of a Lead Acid Battery. With what you have put together for motors that run on super caps your models should run for years, can't ask for anything more that that. It's just trying to get people to understand how it works and why. When at flat zero voltage they will come back not like lead acid it just takes time and with batteries everything is in hours waiting.

John, Thanks for taking the time for that answer. There's no question about the the hobby value of these experiments. Even if you don't get it quite right you still have a great experience with doing something out of the ordinary. I've drawn the little 1.3 ah battery down to where it should be dead. I used 100 ma of incandescent. I matched the 1.3 ah on the discharge cycle then let the battery rest. I've been running the stator motor for about 6 hours now with the battery. I'm running at about 25 ma with the SSG and extra power coil and FWBR back to the battery. Without the feedback I looses voltage. The voltage is hovering around 6 volts and holding for now but I think it will drop. I'll see if I can find a point and tuning match down in that low voltage range that will sustain rotation to some point where it's really noteworthy. My clear case motor cycle battery came down to about 12.1 volts after charge but it was still going down a little. I put a 250 ma load on it for a few minutes to take the surface charge off and know my resting voltage is around 11.6. I hope to have something good to report with it. I will mention this though. I have two of the same 7 ah batteries. One is acid and the other alum. After they sit for a while I can tip them back and the acid battery releases about 5 times as much gas from the plates. One thing I never realized until getting the clear batteries is that they release more gas while sitting than you would ever think.
Yes John, You know I like the little desktop models. I'd like to finish part of the window motor project with the magnetically suspended rotor, a thick Plexi hand made battery, and mini full wave circuit with a small solar panel. Making a decision on what plates and mix would be best is a little hard to figure out for me right now. I think I need some more experimenting, or good advice.
Take care.
John Hav.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Okay some bad news for you guys...I decided to check my pulse motor cell for corrosion and the mag is eating like crazy! I thought It will be corrosion free because I melted the alum once to make this cell but...Guess what? The ''crystaline structure'' of alum seems to let free water and it keeps on corroding the mag with no water added since it's creation 2 weeks ago. I'm very dissapointed...I see dark chunks of magnesium in the bottom of the corroded rod and it seems to be protected. Maybe this dark coating was the part of a diode configuration but the rest was corroding anyway.. Don't know what to think about all of this..

[Allwest]

who wants an energy source that can tap the vacuum? crystal batts to power and SG that never has to be shut down? why not backpop the primary seeing as how these crystal batts charge sooo fast!!

Tom C

Tom C,

Are talking about zero point energy?

Best of luck