Bedini SG/Window Hybrid(s) - Converting off the shelf AC and DC Motors

[John_K]

Thanks erfinder for the details. I'll see what I can come up with.

John K.

[Lightworker1]

Yes Farmhand, i agree 100%. Alcohol does no good to the physical, spirit, and higher bodies of of the self.

Warmest regards
Lightworker

[wayne.ct]

Estimated cost?

.. if I had to do again, I would save up and buy a PMSM device and drive it as we've been taught to drive motors. In the end I think this would be the better way to go, its cheaper, and the money saved on the rebuild can be invested in the controller.

I understand that a PMSM is a permanent magnet synchronous motor and I am intrigued that such a motor can be driven by a controller and produce some sort of interesting results. If I am reading correctly, this would not be "a rewired three phase motor fitted with a permanent magnet rotor, in other words a big brushless motor."

It seems that almost everyone that lurks in this forum has secret ambitions to patent something and become a millionaire tycoon, but I hope you will perhaps point a curious reader in the right direction.

@Erfinder, You also seem willing to oursource some of the construction tasks. Would you please give me an idea of the $$$ to start down the suggested path. I don't personally desire to rewind such and off-the-shelf purchase by hand, but I would be able to assemble an electronic controller. This is going to be a drawn out process if we don't cooperate.

Thank-you!

[Turion]

PMSM Info

Overview - Motor Drive & Control Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motors (PMSM) - TI.com

"The permanent magnet synchronous motor (PMSM) can be thought of as a cross between an AC induction motor and a brushless DC motor (BLDC). They have rotor structures similar to BLDC motors which contain permanent magnets. However, their stator structure resembles that of its ACIM cousin, where the windings are constructed in such a way as to produce a sinusoidal flux density in the airgap of the machine. As a result, they perform best when driven by sinusoidal waveforms. However, unlike their ACIM relatives, PMSM motors perform poorly with open-loop scalar V/Hz control, since there is no rotor coil to provide mechanical damping in transient conditions. Field Oriented Control is the most popular control technique used with PMSMs. As a result, torque ripple can be extremely low, on par with that of ACIMs. However, PMSM motors provide higher power density for their size compared to ACIMs. This is because with an induction machine, part of the stator current is required to "induce" rotor current in order to produce rotor flux. These additional currents generate heat within the motor. However, the rotor flux is already established in a PMSM by the permanent magnets on the rotor.

Most PMSMs utilize permanent magnets which are mounted on the surface of the rotor. This makes the motor appear magnetically "round", and the motor torque is the result of the reactive force between the magnets on the rotor and the electromagnets of the stator. This results in the optimum torque angle being 90 degrees, which is obtained by regulating the d-axis current to zero in a typical FOC application. However, some PMSMs have magnets that are buried inside of the rotor structure. These motors are called Interior Permanent Magnet, or IPM motors. As a result, the radial flux is more concentrated at certain spatial angles than it is at others. This gives rise to an additional torque component called reluctance torque, which is caused by the change of motor inductance along the concentrated and non-concentrated flux paths. This causes the optimum FOC torque angle to be greater than 90 degrees, which requires regulating the d-axis current to be a fixed negative ratio of the q-axis current. This negative d-axis current also results in field weakening, which reduces the flux density along the d-axis, which in turn partially lowers the core losses. As a result, IPM motors boast even higher power output for a given frame size. These motors are becoming increasingly popular as traction motors in hybrid vehicles, as well as variable speed applications for appliances and HVAC.

The saliency exhibited by IPM motors can also provide an additional benefit in sensorless control applications. In many cases, the saliency signature is strong enough that it can be used to determine rotor position at standstill and low speed operating conditions. Some sensorless FOC designs use saliency mapping at low speeds, and then transition to a back-EMF observer model as the motor speeds up."

[LutherG]

Adams Manual and Addendum

Hello,

There are two main reasons why I allowed this thread to die, the first being a more personal one. At the time of my opening it I was dealing with a personal issue, envy. Today I have no problem admitting this both to myself and to the community because I understand how it can and has clouded my judgment at times. For a while I was upset with one who in my opinion didn't have what I would say is the proper understanding of the information he was presenting. Soul searching has led me to the conclusion that my opinion is mine, and my opinion of his work shouldn't matter to him. His work is based on ideas which came to him from the same source that sends me my ideas, the source is the same, the channel through which this idea is made manifest is just a channel. Who am I to judge him. Who am I to be envious of his accomplishment. I am him, not in the literal sense, we share an idea. If we were brain cells, we would share a common neural link. We are one in this work, approaching it from different perspectives, here we must tread carefully. Personal point of view introduces bias, which eventually blinds one from seeing the significance of that which another like mind brings to the discussion. This was my problem, it is for him to decide if he was a victim of this as well. Truth be told he has shared those visions of the future to the best of his ability, right or wrong is immaterial. The point is that he was "allowed" to share his thoughts. It would have been nice if he could have done so uninterrupted by the likes of individuals like myself, who, while operating in a similar manner, feel obligated to inject information where we see it fits when we see fit. This can work only when its welcomed, and I didn't even ask permission. It's funny now that I think about it, would he consider me as a friend today had I asked permission to share my thoughts with him? If you are out there, reading this, forgive me, I have no beef with you.

The second reason for stopping was the intellectual property issue which would have surfaced had I continued discussing things that I couldn't possibly know. Its crystal clear that I don't know anything, this is just a discussion, and I am only tossing ideas around. It makes me wonder though, since my work was inspired by research done by others, what would be the impact of my sharing my ideas and research on that work? From my perspective, there's that word again, it's clear that the individual groups putting this information into the public domain want us to discover and replicate their work, a kind of peanut gallery peer review, however, I don't get the feeling that they really want us to succeed. I say this because the ideas, which, while in my opinion didn't necessarily originate in these circles is now their intellectual property. Since this technology was discussed in an open platform shortly after it made its debut in 2010, I hope we can still discuss it, but not only that, I hope we can begin a massive replication effort, without getting into trouble with the people who are making the information available, as I said, its protected information.

Some might think it strange but in reviewing the information provided on this forum regarding the 16GT Monopole Motor, in all of the posts I found no real information on how and why it really operates. Here I am specially referring to the "Self Reguaging Idling Magneto". In looking for insights into how I believe it functions, I was led to one individual who was the last person I was expecting would give me any insights into the method behind the madness, Robert Adams. "The Adams Pulsed Motor Generator Manual". Find that book!


Regards

Hi Guys, I found The Adams Pulsed Electric Motor Generator Manual for $40 US here:

https://www.nexusmagazine.com/produc...-manual-detail

And an addendum for $31.83 US by Adams:

https://www.nexusmagazine.com/produc...ddendum-detail

Maybe they can be found elsewhere... still looking.

Excellent thread!

Cheers,

Luther

[erfinder]

Hi Guys, I found The Adams Pulsed Electric Motor Generator Manual for $40 US here:

https://www.nexusmagazine.com/produc...-manual-detail

And an addendum for $31.83 US by Adams:

https://www.nexusmagazine.com/produc...ddendum-detail

Maybe they can be found elsewhere... still looking.

Excellent thread!

Cheers,

Luther

Don't buy them unless you want to spend the money....I saw a copy of both online as PDF...will try and find them again.

Regards

[blackchisel97]

Adams files

That's what I have from Adams files -

Adams

Adams Pulsed Motor Generator Manual

Adams Manual Addendum

Let me know if links work. If there is a problem I can email them (and more) to someone under condition that he will upload and share with others.

Regards
V

[wayne.ct]

Further Research and then ...

Ok, this looks reasonable. It's only $299 US.

Three Phase BLDC Motor Kit with DRV8312 and InstaSPIN-Enabled Piccolo TMS320F28069M MCU - DRV8312-69M-KIT - TI Tool Folder

[LutherG]

Links

That's what I have from Adams files -

Adams

Adams Pulsed Motor Generator Manual

Adams Manual Addendum

Let me know if links work. If there is a problem I can email them (and more) to someone under condition that he will upload and share with others.

Regards
V

Hello Blackchisel97,

These links worked fine. I don't know why I didn't pick these up when I did a search on scribd... Thanks!

Best regards,

Luther

[blackchisel97]

Hello Blackchisel97,

These links worked fine. I don't know why I didn't pick these up when I did a search on scribd... Thanks!

Best regards,

Luther

Thank you Luther,
I uploaded them yesterday and they're in private, not public folder. I wasn't sure if links will work for everyone. I have more construction details regarding Adams motor/generator but in different formats such as Word, JPEG and can share them as well if anyone is interested.
Excellent thread erfinder

Regards
V

[John_K]

Hey V,

Yes, please share them Thanks for the scribd links they work fine for me.

Hey Luther, good to see you here

John K.