help with my first Bedini SSG circuit

[Neight]

just posted another youtube video. Mostly posting this cause this took me a good bit of time to set up today, and I want to show it off a bit :P

YouTube - upgrades upgrades!!

nothing too much new in it, just showing the box i mounted my SSG in/on, and showing my new oscilloscope, which i am still learning how to use and read :P

thanks for watching if you do!
N8

[blackchisel97]

Couple suggestions ;

Wheel (rotor)
Good (well balanced) wheel with securely mounted and equally spaced magnets. Free wheeling - as long as possible. (however, energizer will run on an average bicycle wheel as long as the old grease has been removed and couple drops of Xcel Plus or other good lubricant applied) Free wheel time is important if you are after measuring and achieving good COP.
Another important thing - magnets shouldn't be too crowded (spaced too close or too many magnets on the perimeter. In case of ceramic magnets Grade8 it is a good idea to keep them at least magnet and half - 2 magnet width from each other. Spokes are good guidance.

Ideally the magnet width should be equal to or greater than that of the coil core. Rectangular magnets are better then simple discs because the magnet field will sweep across the entire face of the coil.
Neodymium magnets should not be used for SSG. They're too strong, will saturate the core preventing from sharp collapse and sharp pulse - as a result. Magnets should have their N pole facing out (facing coil). The North Pole of a magnet is the one that causes the red or north seeking end of a compass needle to repel. SSG will run on S pole but coil would have to be flipped over. Double or triple stacking the magnets on the rotor will increase the magnetic field and the trigger effect.

Coils - main source of frustration among builders.
Proper spool with core opening (ID of 5/8" - 3/4"max) and 2-1/4 OD and 2-1/4" - 2-1/2" h. If you have a hole saw (the one which can be used with a drill) you can make your own spools. If you plan to build bigger devices get 3-1/2" as well as 3/4 for the center hole. Plumbing pipe 3/4 cut to desired length can be glued using epoxy. Core can be filled with 1/16" - 1/8" copper coated iron welding rods (Gas Welding rods or Brazing Rods). Other materials can be used as long as they don't retain magnetism (check with magnet).

Coil should be wound CW (clockwise) and as neat as possible, layer after layer. Start and end should be marked and wires checked for shorts and conductivity. See the pic below. Small black dot near coil diagram on the schematics usually means the start or beginning of winding. This is important.
It is a good idea to mount the coil the way so you can adjust a gap between the core and magnet. Start with a small gap and when you get running try to increase it. You should feel the repulsion between the coil and the rotor. Try to adjust for the slightest repulsion to run this with a bare minimum of energy from the primary battery.

Tuning Try to have your pot and series resistor rated at 1-2W if possible. With everything connected right and 680 Ohm resistor this should spin. It may need more precised tuning but it should run.
Having a scope is a blessing but simple LED strobe light (as described in one of my youtube's) or AM radio will help. You'll need an A meter in series with your input too. The aim is to find a spot when you'll have a single pulses on the scope or single chirping in the radio. When adjusting pot from higher towards lower resistance you'll hit the spot when input current will slightly drop and rotor will speed up at the same time. When you stop and restart your rotor it will have a triple pulse which will change into single once it stabilizes. You may try to find a range of its operation and observe the speed as well as current. Sometimes it happens that there is more than one spot like that but one will be "clearer" and therefore it is referred as a "sweet" or "vanilla" spot.

Almost forgot; When making a frame or support fir the rotor make sure it isn't magnetic so it will not interfere with passing magnets. Acrylic, wood, plywood will do.
I hope you can make sense from my writing and you'll find it helpful

Vtech

Thanks for the vid update Neight.

[Neight]

there you go cheese!! blackchisel97 helped me out a ton, and is loaded with great advice!! a much better person to talk to than me

and thanks for popping in and giving a better description of what needs to be done than i was putting out

I will probably be cleaning out the bearings on the wheel that i am going to use for my next motor tonight, and hopefully get the thing built next week.

hopefully you will get your rotor spinning soon, and if you have any more questions, feel free to fire away, if i can't answer, there are tons of people on here who can help!

thanks again blackchisel97!! as always great info!
N8

[Neight]

for good measure...

I have used the LED timing light method, and a word of warning...
use a resistor in series with your LED or it will burn out. i burned through 3 or 4 LED's by not using a resistor before i figured out that i needed one.
probably not new info for you, but i didn't know about it, so i figured it was worth mentioning. 470 ohm resistor will work, i use a 1k just for better protection.
(by the way, i have a resistor and an LED in my project box i built just for that reason, so i can tune it on the move )
hope this helps
N8

[blackchisel97]

I have used the LED timing light method, and a word of warning...
use a resistor in series with your LED or it will burn out. i burned through 3 or 4 LED's by not using a resistor before i figured out that i needed one.
probably not new info for you, but i didn't know about it, so i figured it was worth mentioning. 470 ohm resistor will work, i use a 1k just for better protection.
(by the way, i have a resistor and an LED in my project box i built just for that reason, so i can tune it on the move )
hope this helps
N8

Yes, I pointed this out in my vid too. Also, if you disconnect your secondary while having LED strobe connected you diode will die as well.

I sent you PM.


Vtech

[ZeropointEnergy]

Same problem as N8

I have constructed the basic SG North pole motor from the old Bedini SG information online and have some issues with getting it to sustain the rotor.
Thus far the results have been.

1) When hooked up the circuit I had the same humming sound emitted from the coil, however no movement in the rotor. (This indicates the self oscillations are making the rotor act as single big magnet, need some input here please if people know my issue?)
Have pic of circuit. ( will post when upload to facebook or is there somewhere here, I'm new to forum?)

2) When I swapped to the SSG circuit with more components the rotor fired for a short time adjusting the 1k Okm pot to a smaller resistance but then self oscillations stopped the motion. 500k Ohm pot on 100k didnt get movement or at lowest or highest setting.
Is step in the right direction, now to play around more with resistances untill the new wire spools arrive (AWG 23,26 I use, SWG 24,27.5)

3) The 12V/100mA bulb is on all the time sure is a issue there even though I have the circuit hooked up right. ( Well is backwards to any circuit I have seen/used but that was the attraction to Bedini/Free energy technology 6 years ago that works. I just need to work out my errors and scale it up and make more advanced versions.

Sorry to bombard you guys with heap of questions but I have played around and at a point where I need some help

[Neight]

I have constructed the basic SG North pole motor from the old Bedini SG information online and have some issues with getting it to sustain the rotor.
Thus far the results have been.

1) When hooked up the circuit I had the same humming sound emitted from the coil, however no movement in the rotor. (This indicates the self oscillations are making the rotor act as single big magnet, need some input here please if people know my issue?)
Have pic of circuit. ( will post when upload to facebook or is there somewhere here, I'm new to forum?)

2) When I swapped to the SSG circuit with more components the rotor fired for a short time adjusting the 1k Okm pot to a smaller resistance but then self oscillations stopped the motion. 500k Ohm pot on 100k didnt get movement or at lowest or highest setting.
Is step in the right direction, now to play around more with resistances untill the new wire spools arrive (AWG 23,26 I use, SWG 24,27.5)

3) The 12V/100mA bulb is on all the time sure is a issue there even though I have the circuit hooked up right. ( Well is backwards to any circuit I have seen/used but that was the attraction to Bedini/Free energy technology 6 years ago that works. I just need to work out my errors and scale it up and make more advanced versions.

Sorry to bombard you guys with heap of questions but I have played around and at a point where I need some help

one thing you can try that gave me a lot of information is to hook up an LED with a resistor across your power coil and spin your rotor. if the LED doesn't fire, it is likely you're magnets are too small to trigger your power coil and get your motor to pulse.
check the resistance of your power coil, it should be between 4 and 6 ohms.
make sure your magnets are not too close together, that could be causing it to self oscillate too.
Magnet size/strength, coil length, and overall resistance are the keys to getting these small ones tuned correctly. it's a lot to play with, and I have been told using neo magnets really makes it a lot more tough.

I am about done building my bigger wheel with larger ceramic magnets, should have it done either tonight or tomorrow night!

hope this helps, and good luck!
it can be a bit frustrating to get running at first, but once it takes off, it's a blast to watch go
N8

[blackchisel97]

I have constructed the basic SG North pole motor from the old Bedini SG information online and have some issues with getting it to sustain the rotor.
Thus far the results have been.

1) When hooked up the circuit I had the same humming sound emitted from the coil, however no movement in the rotor. (This indicates the self oscillations are making the rotor act as single big magnet, need some input here please if people know my issue?)
Have pic of circuit. ( will post when upload to facebook or is there somewhere here, I'm new to forum?)

2) When I swapped to the SSG circuit with more components the rotor fired for a short time adjusting the 1k Okm pot to a smaller resistance but then self oscillations stopped the motion. 500k Ohm pot on 100k didnt get movement or at lowest or highest setting.
Is step in the right direction, now to play around more with resistances untill the new wire spools arrive (AWG 23,26 I use, SWG 24,27.5)

3) The 12V/100mA bulb is on all the time sure is a issue there even though I have the circuit hooked up right. ( Well is backwards to any circuit I have seen/used but that was the attraction to Bedini/Free energy technology 6 years ago that works. I just need to work out my errors and scale it up and make more advanced versions.

Sorry to bombard you guys with heap of questions but I have played around and at a point where I need some help

When you scroll down below the message window into additional options there is a manage attachments button. Click it and new window will open. You can upload picture from your comp there. Before you post you can click preview and see the thumbnail of your pic.
Another option is to save your pic/vids online (I use Photobucket) and insert them using hyperlink option in text editor above.
Please read my previous long post and check each component if meets those guidelines. Adjustable base resistance should be in 1k Ohm range not 100k or 500k. Constantly "on" bulb may happen if coil isn't hooked up correctly. Try reversing trigger wires. Also, make sure your coil isn't "upside down" since it would have to be triggered with S poles and it won't work with N pole rotor.


Vtech

[dR-Green]

I have constructed the basic SG North pole motor from the old Bedini SG information online and have some issues with getting it to sustain the rotor.
Thus far the results have been.

1) When hooked up the circuit I had the same humming sound emitted from the coil, however no movement in the rotor. (This indicates the self oscillations are making the rotor act as single big magnet, need some input here please if people know my issue?)
Have pic of circuit. ( will post when upload to facebook or is there somewhere here, I'm new to forum?)

2) When I swapped to the SSG circuit with more components the rotor fired for a short time adjusting the 1k Okm pot to a smaller resistance but then self oscillations stopped the motion. 500k Ohm pot on 100k didnt get movement or at lowest or highest setting.
Is step in the right direction, now to play around more with resistances untill the new wire spools arrive (AWG 23,26 I use, SWG 24,27.5)

3) The 12V/100mA bulb is on all the time sure is a issue there even though I have the circuit hooked up right. ( Well is backwards to any circuit I have seen/used but that was the attraction to Bedini/Free energy technology 6 years ago that works. I just need to work out my errors and scale it up and make more advanced versions.

Sorry to bombard you guys with heap of questions but I have played around and at a point where I need some help

I had a little trouble getting my first motor running. I couldn't tell whether it was running for a while then coming to a halt, or if it was just the momentum of the rotor keeping it going. (Computer fans etc making noise in the background don't help either). I swapped the polarity of the coil, then swapped it back again, changed the 430 ohm resistor for a 680 ohm, adjusted the distance of the coil from the magnets (it's mounted and there is only a very small range which it can be adjusted/moved, and the motor continues to work in any position), and it suddenly came to life. So actually I did "nothing" to fix whatever problem there was, but "nothing" is what got it working anyway.

I suppose that doesn't really help, but maybe there's just a simple problem like a poor connection, or useless batteries. I was also using 8xAA batteries in a stone shed at -5 celsius outside, so I don't think the batteries liked that either. More power available on the input might help to get it going, or keep it going. I can get self oscillating just with a 1k pot and 680 ohm resistor when using the 8xAA batteries (which are 1.2v ones), but not when using a better power source.

[ZeropointEnergy]

Thankyou for the input

Information I didnt state before in last post on the coil and rotor

Coil = 19mm bore (ID), 32mm width (OD), 37mm height
turns = 336 Bifilar #23,26 gauge (use SWG 24,27.5, same as AWG 23,26)
rotor = Standard skateboard wheel
bearings = Speed Demon ( I swapped the bad standard ones out )
Magnets = Ceramic ferrite 25x11x5mm ( 1',.5',.25' about)
Primary and Seconary batteries = 9V transistor battery ( will get 12V/7aH )

N8,
When I hooked up the LED in series with a 1k ohm resistor to the power coil and manually spun the rotor it didnt light. ( Not the result I wanted )
My power coil is 3 Ohms and trigger is 4 Ohms and is not in the 4-6 Ohm range needed. Winding new coil now with 400-500 turns of 0.3, 0.25mm wire ( AWG 28,30 looked it up ) I know this will get me the 4-6 Ohm range needed for my coil. Coil dimentions are 19mm bore, 65mm height and hope to get 50+mm width when wound.
As for magnets, I'm using 4 poles evenly spaced 90 degrees apart and have a Neodymium 4 poles rotor ( just finished glueing last on with epoxy ) but the Neo rotor I will hold off using with SSG circuit.

Thanks again N8, keep up the posts.

Blackchisel97,
I only used the 500k pot in place of the 1k Ohm pot once for test. I have swapped resistances from 100 Ohm to 500k Ohm ( to affect varying resistances )
After research and checking an older 150 turn bifilar AWG 23,26 coil I wound a year back I found my latest coil is not clockwise
And sealed with polyurethane so will be hard to unwind.
I reversed the coil but not trigger wires, thanks for the tip.
When I hooked up power coil to 9V battery it does repel the rotor slightly.


dR-Green,
Thankyou for the input, I will swap in the 680 Ohm resistor was going to try soon anyway. As I adjusted the 1k pot a few times it seemed that the rotor did speed up you could hear it, however, took notes but have not replicated yet.
Hope all this changes and fine tuning helps i'll keep you informed.

Thank to all who are helping me get this amazing technology operational

[blackchisel97]

ZeropointEnergy Do me a favor and remove this 12V 100mA bulb from the circuit and try to spin.

Also, remove LED.


Vtech

[Neight]

Information I didnt state before in last post on the coil and rotor

Coil = 19mm bore (ID), 32mm width (OD), 37mm height
turns = 336 Bifilar #23,26 gauge (use SWG 24,27.5, same as AWG 23,26)
rotor = Standard skateboard wheel
bearings = Speed Demon ( I swapped the bad standard ones out )
Magnets = Ceramic ferrite 25x11x5mm ( 1',.5',.25' about)
Primary and Seconary batteries = 9V transistor battery ( will get 12V/7aH )

N8,
When I hooked up the LED in series with a 1k ohm resistor to the power coil and manually spun the rotor it didnt light. ( Not the result I wanted )
My power coil is 3 Ohms and trigger is 4 Ohms and is not in the 4-6 Ohm range needed. Winding new coil now with 400-500 turns of 0.3, 0.25mm wire ( AWG 28,30 looked it up ) I know this will get me the 4-6 Ohm range needed for my coil. Coil dimentions are 19mm bore, 65mm height and hope to get 50+mm width when wound.
As for magnets, I'm using 4 poles evenly spaced 90 degrees apart and have a Neodymium 4 poles rotor ( just finished glueing last on with epoxy ) but the Neo rotor I will hold off using with SSG circuit.

Thanks again N8, keep up the posts.

Blackchisel97,
I only used the 500k pot in place of the 1k Ohm pot once for test. I have swapped resistances from 100 Ohm to 500k Ohm ( to affect varying resistances )
After research and checking an older 150 turn bifilar AWG 23,26 coil I wound a year back I found my latest coil is not clockwise
And sealed with polyurethane so will be hard to unwind.
I reversed the coil but not trigger wires, thanks for the tip.
When I hooked up power coil to 9V battery it does repel the rotor slightly.


dR-Green,
Thankyou for the input, I will swap in the 680 Ohm resistor was going to try soon anyway. As I adjusted the 1k pot a few times it seemed that the rotor did speed up you could hear it, however, took notes but have not replicated yet.
Hope all this changes and fine tuning helps i'll keep you informed.

Thank to all who are helping my get theis amazing technology operational

two things that come to mind...
1. your magnets look like they might be a bit close together. they should be at least 1.5 magnet widths apart, yours may be, but just thought to mention it.
2. i could not get mine to spin with 9V batteries. not my original setup, though i have not tried it since i have improved my setup vastly. I had to use some 12V lead acid batteries to get mine to work the first time.

just a few things that might help
good luck!
N8

[ZeropointEnergy]

My Bedini SSG Energizer/Motor is working

Hello All,

I got the Bedini SSG circuit working after adding more AWG #23,26 to bring the resistance to power = 4, trigger = 7. ( from 334 to about 600 )
I picked up a few Ne2 Neon Bulbs and added one to my circuit finally as well, then soldered all together.

Used:
D1 = 1N9148
D2 = 1N4007
R1 = 680 Ohms
P1 = 1K Ohm .5W Potentiometer
Q1 = 2N3055
Neon = Ne2 (Green, Red)

When I fired up the circuit it spun it the rotor fired for 30 seconds then began to slow down, but with a little tuning with the pot and the rotor sped up and was putting in 16V in a dead 12V/7aH battery from a PC surge protector that was broken. ( what spikes you guys getting across them? )
Have given it two 10 min runs and secondary battery is 5V from 3V, not great but really havent played around much, expect abundant improvement.
First test didnt have all the housing screwed in since didnt expect to work other was with secondary circuit soldered together. ( changes are 100 Ohm resistor in place of 680 Ohm to test rotor speeds, plus a green neon bulb.)
Will post video up when I join youtube and get the SSG circuit fine-tuned.

Well thankyou again for all the input on my issues with coil and now I learnt that need 600 turns min with four magnet setup and can get results.
Blackchisel97 I seen the youtube clip you posted on tuning with a LED connected to the trigger coil and since I dont have oscillascope yet i'll have to use your methodology for tuning.

Regards
Zero

[Neight]

Excellent!!
congrats on getting it moving, it sure is fun to watch it spin up isn't is!!

The LED timing light is a great way to tune them, works really well.
Another thing to try, if you have a meter that reads mA, is to put your meter on the power battery's positive lead and set to read mA. start your motor with the highest resistance let it get up to speed. once it's up to speed, start lowering the resistance on your pot. watch the meter while you do this, and when it gets to it's sweet spot, you should see the current drop.
mine will go from over 100mA right down to about 65mA. little more fine tuning and i can get it as low as 60mA draw. and it should be going at it's top speed or near it at the same moment you see the amp draw drop.
that is the sweet spot, once you have that tuned in, try putting the timing light to it, I bet you will see one pulse per magnet.
I have heard they are not always one pulse per magnet when they are tuned the way they want to run, so it's best to go for lowest current at highest RMP.
Play around with it a bit, I am leaving the pot on mine because different conditions might take different tuning, but once you get it tuned you do have the option to replace the pot with a fixed resistor of the same value your pot reads when your motor is tuned. that way you don't have to tune it overtime you want to test it.
congrats on the victory!
N8

[cheese]

Hello again

I have not quit trying since my last post here, and still cannot get it to work. I have a couple of questions:
1.Will the ciruit work if the resistance in the coil is less than 4?
2.Is there a big problem with using 6 volt batteries?
3. Could my problem lie in the fact that I'm using strong neodymium magnets?

I would like to point out I just made a new circuit because my old one was getting really disorganized. The circuit is doing absolutly nothing except for lighting the neon bulb, and is not occilating like yours did when it was not working.

Thank you