Stanley Meyer

[pmazz850]

This 'plasma' idea of yours makes absolutely no sense. Does anyone even know what Tutanka's talking about?

Like I said, I'll light a match in a room of plasma air and nitrogen but are you willing to do the same in one filled with only hydrogen gas and pure oxygen?

ein~+tien,
tutankas plasma air is based on autothermia process.
Read the section on autothermia in this article. I think its close to the bottom.
New Energy Technologies Issue 22

[Ein~+ein]

The term 'Autothermia' appears to be a coined or derived expression from the more commonly used 'autothermal' or 'autothermic' (self-heating). The oxidization of biomass to produce Syngas, for example is an autothermic process, but not a combustive one so even the term appears misappropriated (I've bolded certain parts--I love how "facts allowed believing"):

Autothermia
Natural energy
Prof. E.I. Andreyev, Saint Petersburg, Russia +7-812-238-1688

According to this theory, air could combust autonomously, without fuel, which was confirmed by the practice of setting and operation in the fuel economy mode of racing and passenger cars’ internal combustion engines. This mode was tested over a long period of time. These facts allowed believing in 100% realization of the autothermal fuel less air combustion in carburetor motor engines. Due to this, they were used for experimental and development activities directed at the exclusion of fuel from the combustion process. Finally, this aim was reached. The theory helped to correctly implement the autothermal air combustion process and obtain stable engine’s operation during any load conditions. Evolution of new views in physics and energy. From the theory understanding to plenty of energy Two kinds of energy – the accumulated [1] and free [2] ones are considered as an inexhaustible source of ecologically clean energy renewable in natural conditions, created by Nature. One of the main methods of energy generation is combustion of organic fuel. Let us consider briefly the historical aspect of the combustion theory. The theory of phlogiston (an imponderable substance which caused combustion and participated in it) was the first. In 1669, a German chemist Becher, in his work called “Underground Physics”, expressed a thought that there is a combustible component in bodies’ compositions. In 1703, a German chemist Stahl re published Becher’s work and called the component “phlogiston”. However, it was impossible to isolate phlogiston in its pure form, experiments did not coincide with the theory and it became dislodged. In 1756, Lomonosov defined combustion as a reaction of a combustible and air and Lavoisier defined it as a reaction of substances and oxygen (a chemical oxidation reaction) in 1773. Since that time, nothing practically changed. Today combustion is considered as all exothermal chemical reactions including oxidation of a combustible. No physical mechanism of combustion has been developed despite numerous works on theory and practice of combustion. Calorific efficiency of fuel is still considered as a given from above property with characteristics which are determined experimentally. Let us consider one of paradoxes of the traditional combustion theory. It is known that oxygen explodes in the presence of lubricating oil’s (or any hydrocarbon) traces. If we follow the theory of an explosion as fast fuel combustion in oxygen, it is clear that the heat of oil traces’ reaction never coincides with the energy of oxygen explosion. This is the paradox: a small amount of fuel (a microgram in TNT equivalent) and huge energy of oxygen combustion, as if oxygen explodes by itself. If we ignore the small amount of the oil’s traces, we can see that there is only oxygen in the initial, pre-explosion medium. An oxygen molecule consists of two atoms connected with an electron. At the same time, there are always some oxygen atoms (ions) (plasma) in pure oxygen due to permanently happening phase transfer “molecule atoms”. And there are some free electrons in hydrocarbons containing many connection electrons. Presence of even a single electron and oxygen atoms with an opposite sign of excessive electrical charge inevitably leads to their interaction and a following explosion. A physical mechanism of this process was developed by D.H. Baziev [5]. When a free electron with the highest electro dynamical oscillation potential enters plasma, it instantaneously becomes the first acting component in the system of New Energy Technologies #4(23) 2005 79 oxygen atoms_ions (plasma). An electron globule – a sphere made of oxygen atoms _ forms around it. An energy generation mechanism’s basis is electro_dynamical interaction of free electrons with substance atoms, during which a negatively charged electron layer_by_layer takes particles, which are much smaller than the electron, called electrino from an atom. Electrinos with a high start speed (~1016 m/s) give their kinetic energy remotely (electro_ dynamically) and by contact (during clashes) to surrounding atoms and particles and turn into photons (energy_less electrino) themselves and go from the reaction zone into space at the speed of light (~108 m/s). This energy liberation process is called a phase transfer of the highest kind (PTHK). As we can see from such a brief description of PTHK mechanism, two conditions are necessary for its behavior: the first one is presence of plasma as state of an ionized substance divided at least into atoms and the second condition is presence of free electrons. During each interaction with an electron, an atom irretrievably irradiates an electrino which becomes a plasma hyper_ frequency oscillator for a moment, during which it transfers its connection energy in an oxygen atom to surrounding oscillators. Due to the fact that there is nothing except oxygen and nitrogen in the air combusted in an internal_combustion engine, reduction of organic fuel consumption occurs due to nitrogen involvement into combustion which is indicated by reduction of nitrogen contents in exhaust. In order to do this, it is necessary to decompose a nitrogen molecule at least to atoms or smaller fragments by some initiating influence. This can be made by an electric discharge, magnetic flow, explosion or other methods which consume much less energy than it is produced during PTHK. Such a nitrogen operation and combustion mode goes with oxidation up to H2O, not to CO2, which is more effective, according to energy and ecology. PTHK processes with production of excessive power (which is bigger than the consumed one) were also obtained in cavitation heat generators using water. Now let us talk about free energy. It is called by different names but nobody can formulate what it is. It is called aether energy, basic universal energy but if you ask, ‘What is it?’, they answer, ‘Something’, i.e. they do not mean any physical meaning. The surrounding physical vacuum or aether or quintessence is electrino gas, i.e. a medium containing invisible elementary particles – electrino discovered by D.H. Baziev in 1982. Their properties are considered in the works [5, 6, and 7] and electrino’s existence was proved experimentally by the Russian Academy of Sciences in 2001 [7]. Since energy, as many people consider, is a motion measure, in order to use the environmental energy as free energy, it is necessary to make electrino move (in different energy devices). In the work [2], a complete classification of energy devices’ types including standard and non_traditional ones using accumulated and free energy is given. Physical mechanisms and their operational principles are described in details; a description of real devices using free energy is given. It is shown that energy exchange in nature and the energy devices consists in transfer of electrino flows as energy flows between interacting objects or between objects and the environment.

Incidentally, there's already a thread on Prof Andreyev called Fuel-less Combustion of Air. Profs Andreyev and Badiev if allowed to live, will be doing hard labour in some Siberian gulag.
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Having said all that, THIS ISN'T THE SYSTEM TUTANKA REFERS TO. Tuanka insisted that while plasma air was the REAL FUEL it needed ADDITIONAL FUEL.

[pmazz850]

plasma and air

here is a video of plasma and compressed air and a plasma like flame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vd7...e_gdata_player

Except Tutanka doesn't use high voltage!

[Jeff Pearson]

Yes the plasma makes sense. Pre-discharge corona glow for the purposes of ionization, for atomic nitrogen to bind with the hydrogen. If some binds with the oxygen, I think thats ok also. Nitrous oxide is added to the fuel stream of drag racers etc. You need a molecule other than just water formed during combustion for an explosion instead of implosion

[Aaron]

Baziev

tutankas plasma air is based on autothermia process.

See Baziev.

[tutanka]

here is a video of plasma and compressed air and a plasma like flame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vd7...e_gdata_player

Except Tutanka doesn't use high voltage!

No need high voltage.. and reaction present in your video is nothing respect to air as fuel

[Michael John Nunnerley]

This might help understand things

Thermodynamics dictates that breaking chemical bonds requires energy, while making new ones releases it. The stronger the bond being broken or made, the more energy is sucked in or released – so the overall energy produced by a reaction is a trade-off between the strength of the old bonds and the newly formed ones.

One triple bond releases much more energy when it forms than is needed to break the three single bonds that bind the nitrogen in the starting compound. "The point is that you are breaking weaker bonds and making a very strong bond,"

A second factor makes nitrogen compounds explosive: the newly formed nitrogen molecules form a gas, which can expand very quickly and form a shock wave.

In air, nitrogen exists as a molecule made of two atoms stuck together by an incredibly strong triple bond. "It is the strongest bond you can get between two atoms that are the same," That strength makes nitrogen gas unreactive, as the bond is very difficult to break. But explosives – and fertiliser – start their life as compounds made of nitrogen and elements such as oxygen and hydrogen, attached to each other by much weaker bonds. Less energy is needed to break these bonds, and once they are broken, atoms of nitrogen are free to form triple bonds with each other.

Mike

[Ein~+ein]

Thermodynamics dictates that breaking chemical bonds requires energy, while making new ones releases it. The stronger the bond being broken or made, the more energy is sucked in or released – so the overall energy produced by a reaction is a trade-off between the strength of the old bonds and the newly formed ones.

One triple bond releases much more energy when it forms than is needed to break the three single bonds that bind the nitrogen in the starting compound. "The point is that you are breaking weaker bonds and making a very strong bond,"

A second factor makes nitrogen compounds explosive: the newly formed nitrogen molecules form a gas, which can expand very quickly and form a shock wave.

In air, nitrogen exists as a molecule made of two atoms stuck together by an incredibly strong triple bond. "It is the strongest bond you can get between two atoms that are the same," That strength makes nitrogen gas unreactive, as the bond is very difficult to break. But explosives – and fertiliser – start their life as compounds made of nitrogen and elements such as oxygen and hydrogen, attached to each other by much weaker bonds. Less energy is needed to break these bonds, and once they are broken, atoms of nitrogen are free to form triple bonds with each other.

Mike

@ Mike: Thanks for the clear explanation. While it makes sense, it doesn't appear to support either Tutanka's assertion that "Air is the real fuel" or the 'autothermia' one that 'air could combust autonomously, without fuel'.

@ Aaron (or anyone): I've already shown how what Tutanka talks about is not 'autothermia' either. But with respect to your 'See Baziev' comment, the only thing I could find were references mostly to the speed of light which is the only paper Patrick Kelly has on his site. I'm sure if Baziev's work were more influential (accepted among peers) or controversial, there'd be more discussion. Can you provide a specific link?
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Back on topic:

@Brian995: Do you still take what you've quoted Stan Meyer to say at face value given water contains only 1/3 the hydrogen of gasoline?
"

...And under the National Bureau of Standards figures shows that when you use water, the energy release is roughly two and a half times more powerful then that of gasoline. So water is a very powerful fuel.” Stan Meyers 1992

Can you explain why, if hydrogen gas were that flammable (at ambient pressure), vehicles running on hydrogen would require it pressurized?

Stan worked on his “water fuel cell” in his home workshop primarily from the late 1980s into the late 1990s. The water cell was relatively simple technology that electrically pulses water at specific frequencies which fractures its atomic structure into oxygen and hydrogen particles. This electrical resonance liberates the highly flammable Hydrogen gas -commonly called HHO- from the water. This gas burns 300% more efficiently than regular petroleum and not only is it a commendable combustant the only product to come from the exhaust pipe is… you guessed it… water.