Proof that HHO is a Scam - Aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml

[Ein~+ein]

So, despite the Hydrogen-On-Demand Systems (HODS) scams and hyperbole perpetrated by so-called 'HHO research' sites, there is legitimate industry and academic research backing this:

SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) - search results for HHO research
PhysicsForums.com thread: Investigation of hydrogen-on-demand systems (HODS) - Links to research findings
...and here's links to some older research from a Swedish site

I did a quick search on several truck sites but 'no results' for either HHO, hydrogen or hydroxy.

[Ein~+ein]

Found a live link to that gov doc: Guidelines for H2 Fuel in CMVs - Nov 2007.pdf

What's odd is that the only current research on the SAE site into HHO added to gasoline engines comes from a university in Vietnam, a country with more motorbikes than cars.

For those of you still not convinced HHO is the scam I think it is (in the sense that it can economically replace gas or diesel as the 'only' fuel), you definitely should crowdfund, or ask whoever's funding your work to invest in a hydrogen ICE. According to the report:

Theoretically any typical spark-ignited engine, like the gasoline engines used in most cars, can operate on a range of liquid or gaseous fuels, including hydrogen. However, due to differences in the chemical properties of the various fuels, the designs of engines optimized for each are quite
different.

Because of the wide flammability range of hydrogen, an internal combustion engine (ICE) operating on hydrogen can operate with a much leaner air/fuel mixture than a typical gasoline engine, which improves efficiency. A hydrogen ICE developed by Ford Motor Company can operate with an air fuel ratio as high as 86:1, compared to 14.7:1 for typical gasoline engines (see Figure 7). This results in about a 25 percent improvement in efficiency (NEW-CARS, 2003).

Because hydrogen is a light gas, it displaces more volume in the combustion chamber than gasoline vapors, and super-charging is generally required to get equivalent power output as the same sized gasoline engine. Other design changes compared to typical gasoline engines may be required to reduce the possibility of pre-ignition, or knock, because of hydrogen’s low ignition energy. These may include the use of a disk-shaped combustion chamber to reduce turbulence in the cylinder, the use of more than one spark-plug, and the use of multiple exhaust valves (College of the Desert, 2001b)

[Jeff Pearson]

The only scam about HHO is the nitrogen aspect is completely dismissed. You dont run your car on water per se but use the water and nitrogen to make a completely new fuel! Even Stan said he was making "syngas" in the beginning before he focused attention away from the nitrogen.

[Ein~+ein]

The only scam about HHO is the nitrogen aspect is completely dismissed. You don't run your car on water per se but use the water and nitrogen to make a completely new fuel! Even Stan said he was making "syngas" in the beginning before he focused attention away from the nitrogen.

Perhaps you can explain it to me--just water and nitrogen (no gasoline or other fuel)? Since all engines including hydrogen ICEs have air intake and air contains nitrogen, aren't they all "syngas" engines--or do they use controlled amounts nitrogen gas in the intake? To me, and I'm sure to others, the 'nitrogen' argument sounds like a red herring used to mask the 'water car' scam.

But go ahead, post links to the evidence, I'd be delighted to look at it. You'll note throughout this thread references to 'small amounts of HHO' suggesting that HHO's role is only to improve the combustion rate of gasoline due to the inherent inefficiency of HODS--and you're right, hho + gas + air = an entirely new form of fuel.

[Jeff Pearson]

We are already running our cars on hydrogen anyway. Hydrocarbon chains. So we just make hydronitrogen chains instead. It's such a simple concept no one can figure this out?? REALLY?? Look at the fuel air ratio on the ford engine. Even without making a new molecule, it doesn't take much hydrogen!

[Aaron]

the only scam is Einstein's misinformation

Perhaps you can explain it to me--just water and nitrogen (no gasoline or other fuel)? Since all engines including hydrogen ICEs have air intake and air contains nitrogen, aren't they all "syngas" engines--or do they use controlled amounts nitrogen gas in the intake? To me, and I'm sure to others, the 'nitrogen' argument sounds like a red herring used to mask the 'water car' scam.

But go ahead, post links to the evidence, I'd be delighted to look at it. You'll note throughout this thread references to 'small amounts of HHO' suggesting that HHO's role is only to improve the combustion rate of gasoline due to the inherent inefficiency of HODS--and you're right, hho + gas + air = an entirely new form of fuel.

You've learned absolutely NOTHING so far.

The small amount of HHO mixed with air extends the lean burn of gasoline if used as a booster.

NASA, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, etc... tested various hydrogen generators through fuel reforming and other methods all back in the 70's when the federal govt actually was interested in improving fuel economy.

JPL leaned an engine to almost 30:1 air fuel ratio while simultaneously increasing the thermal efficiency of a V8 by 40%! That means NO OVERHEATING AND INCREASED GAS MILEAGE since fuel efficiency is directly proportionate to the thermal efficiency of the engine. And that was done by generating the hydrogen through reforming some of the gasoline and all gains were MORE THAN ENOUGH to offset any associated losses by the hydrogen generator and no violation of thermodynamics as the misinformation stooges claim.

[Ein~+ein]

We are already running our cars on hydrogen anyway. Hydrocarbon chains. So we just make hydronitrogen chains instead. It's such a simple concept no one can figure this out?? REALLY?? Look at the fuel air ratio on the ford engine. Even without making a new molecule, it doesn't take much hydrogen!

As efficient as that Ford hydrogen ICE and newer ones are, they won't go far on a HODS (no gasoline). As I've said, if you claim otherwise, then please provide the evidence. I'm sure the SAE, the auto industry and the general public would all love to know.

@Aaron: You're right. I've learned absolutely nothing so far about the importance of nitrogen.

[stevie1001]

Yeah, its nots even a very good cell, but the little bit of HHO or whatever was effective, not very but effective. I later self destructed 4 cells forcing enough power through them to just barley run the engine on HHO mixed with ambient air drawn through the cells. Even that didn't blow the 10 amp fuse to the cells so its way less power than what the alternator can supply with a crappy inefficient cell!!!!!!

Please share some more info.
How big was yr engine and with how much hho did you idle that engine on HHO only?

thanks

[tutanka]

Please share some more info.
How big was yr engine and with how much hho did you idle that engine on HHO only?

thanks

Just words and nothing else.. nitrogen is inert gas and for obtain an new molecule or reaction you need ionization and catalyst. For exaple SHELL use nitrogen inside gasoline just an cleaner. HHO can be just an medium but not a fuel. You need to re-process hho again without burn directly.

[tutanka]

You've learned absolutely NOTHING so far.

The small amount of HHO mixed with air extends the lean burn of gasoline if used as a booster.

NASA, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, etc... tested various hydrogen generators through fuel reforming and other methods all back in the 70's when the federal govt actually was interested in improving fuel economy.

JPL leaned an engine to almost 30:1 air fuel ratio while simultaneously increasing the thermal efficiency of a V8 by 40%! That means NO OVERHEATING AND INCREASED GAS MILEAGE since fuel efficiency is directly proportionate to the thermal efficiency of the engine. And that was done by generating the hydrogen through reforming some of the gasoline and all gains were MORE THAN ENOUGH to offset any associated losses by the hydrogen generator and no violation of thermodynamics as the misinformation stooges claim.

HHO can be an catalyst and nitrogen is the component needed for obtain PLASMA. HHO and PLASMA togheter are the fuel of future.

[Ein~+ein]

HHO can be an catalyst and nitrogen is the component needed for obtain PLASMA. HHO and PLASMA togheter are the fuel of future.

Who here is convinced by this given:
a) your failure or refusal to explain or even link to a credible source;
b) your inadequate response to questions on your Kit Board for HHO Dry Cells;
c) you restrict access to your evidence: "the conference is at closed doors.. need invitation";
d) as aljhoa says, "you are using terminology that is inapplicable to plasma technology.";
e) you confuse the terms fuel and catalyst. As I've told you, air does not burn, it's a catalyst.

[tutanka]

Who here is convinced by this given:
a) your failure or refusal to explain or even link to a credible source;
b) your inadequate response to questions on your Kit Board for HHO Dry Cells;
c) you restrict access to your evidence: "the conference is at closed doors.. need invitation";
d) as aljhoa says, "you are using terminology that is inapplicable to plasma technology.";
e) you confuse the terms fuel and catalyst. As I've told you, air does not burn, it's a catalyst.

READ BETTER WITH ATTENTION..

HHO can be used as catalyst and nitrogen is the component needed for obtain just PLASMA. HHO and PLASMA togheter are the fuel of future.

[Ein~+ein]

READ BETTER WITH ATTENTION..

WRITE BETTER WITH ATTENTION... IN YOUR OWN LANGUAGE. I'm sure someone'll translate for us. The fact you contradict yourself using terms indiscriminately suggests even you don't know what you're talking about. No one's been able to help me understand what you attempt to say and your lack of evidence or explanation doesn't lend you any credibility in my books.

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[B]Explosion at California water fuel research company kills inventor[/B]

On Thursday afternoon, 28-year-old inventor, Tyson Larson was killed in an explosion that ripped a hole in the roof and blew out the back doors to a Simi Valley building of the family member's company, Realm Industries, which was seeking to develop his water fuel technology.

The explosion was likely a result of an attempt to compress hydroxy gas -- never a good idea. Also, it turns out that two associates of the company were indicted in March for "defrauding 300 investors of $7 million with ploys including a process for creating alternative fuel from water."

To the conspiracy fans, I'll admit there is a possibility here some of those 300, having lost faith in Mr Larson's water fuel promises, may have conspired to set up that 'accidental' explosion.

[tutanka]

WRITE BETTER WITH ATTENTION... IN YOUR OWN LANGUAGE. I'm sure someone'll translate for us. The fact you contradict yourself using terms indiscriminately suggests even you don't know what you're talking about. No one's been able to help me understand what you attempt to say and your lack of evidence or explanation doesn't lend you any credibility in my books.

----------------------------------------------

[B]Explosion at California water fuel research company kills inventor[/B]

On Thursday afternoon, 28-year-old inventor, Tyson Larson was killed in an explosion that ripped a hole in the roof and blew out the back doors to a Simi Valley building of the family member's company, Realm Industries, which was seeking to develop his water fuel technology.

The explosion was likely a result of an attempt to compress hydroxy gas -- never a good idea. Also, it turns out that two associates of the company were indicted in March for "defrauding 300 investors of $7 million with ploys including a process for creating alternative fuel from water."

To the conspiracy fans, I'll admit there is a possibility here some of those 300, having lost faith in Mr Larson's water fuel promises, may have conspired to set up that 'accidental' explosion.

This shows how dangerous it is an large amount of hho, using plasma you need lower amount of hho and low risk. Is what that Stanley Meyer have realized.

[Ein~+ein]

This shows how dangerous it is an large amount of hho, using plasma you need lower amount of hho and low risk.

You missed the key point: "The explosion was likely a result of an attempt to compress hydroxy gas". That's the only practical way of running a hydrogen ICE vehicle* other than on liquid hydrogen. The facts as I presented them on another thread and Jon Abel's video clearly demonstrate uncompressed hydroxy gas, especially when mixed with what you call the 'real fuel' is not very volatile, so yes, extremely low risk.

* See why I think Larson was murdered? Why would he compress large amounts of HHO for a water fuel HODS when everyone agrees what's needed is to lower the burn rate by mixing HHO with air? Yet another name to add to the long list of FE martrys.