Plasma spark plug help

[suneeljituri]

Hi friends,

I have red post on plasma spark plug. And I wanted to test this method of connecting HV diode from primary postive connection to secondary positive connection of my 125cc Honda bike. As I have tested I dont see the plasma spark instead the spark get lessen. If disconnected gb diode spark become regular.
Where am I wrong?

Should I test it on car instead of two wheelar?

Please guide me through friends.

Thanks

Suneel.

[plasmahunt3r]

Plasma Spark Plug

First of all, the standard spark plug has a resistor built in. Put a meter on both ends of the center electrode and read the ohms. Many standard spark plugs have 5K ohms (or more).

You need a spark plug without the built-in resistor. Buy an equivilent Champion Copper spark plug, heat the end with a flame to loosen the loctite, and unscrew the end on the plug. A resistor and spring will drop out. Replace the resistor and spring with a piece of 12 ga solid copper wire and screw the end back in. Test the plug with an Ohm Meter.

Next, you can try the diode, but I have another suggestion.

The goal is to merge High Current with the High Voltage, and although a Diode will work, it's High Current capability is limited by the size of the diode. A 30ma diode can only handle 30ma.

Plasma requires serious current. The more current, the more powerful the Plasma Spark. However, too much current causes the spark plug to burn. The plug actually catches fire with too much current. Most spark plugs are zinc plated and Zinc ignites at 900 degrees. The zinc is the fuel and air is the oxidizer. So use a resistor to limit the current to the spark plug.

Instead of a diode, place a .001 UF 30KV blocking capacitor between the ignition wire and the spark plug end. This blocking capacitor will allow the AC spark to pass into the spark plug, but will block DC.

With the blocking capacitor in place, you can attach a positive wire from your battery to the spark plug end. Add a resistor to limit the current to the plug. Start with 10-20 Ohm 25 Watt, and go from there. A car battery can deliver TOO much current (up to 450 Cranking Amps) and you only need an Amp. Remember, a Plasma Spark "IS A SHORT". A 20 Ohm resistor will limit the 12 Volts to .6 Amps, while a 10 Ohm will limit the current to 1.2 Amps.

The way this works is: the Negative Ground and the Positive wire, hooked up to the plug, represent an an OPEN circuit. The spark is a switch and will close the circuit. The Blocking Cap stops the DC positive from going back up the ignition wire but alows AC to pass to the plug.

When a spark is initiated, the spark voltage passes through the Blocking cap into the spark plug and produces a spark. When this spark occurs, it acts as a switch and completes the DC circuit. Now you have High Current DC merged with High Voltage AC.

Here is a pic of my setup:

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...psded65567.png

Also, I would start with an offline test setup. Build an ignition coil driver circuit on a bench and use it for testing before putting it on a vehicle. Errors could be costly to correct.

[Aaron]

Plasma Ignition

A car battery can deliver TOO much current (up to 450 Cranking Amps) and you only need an Amp.

PLasmahunt3r - Looks like another way to get the same effect - pretty cool. With a cap as the low voltage source, the high current of course is because of the accelerated discharge time from the negative resistance effect.

Do you have any scope shots across the battery using that as your low voltage source during the plasma event? Would be very interested in seeing that if you do.

Suneel - That can all work but please be very careful using a 12v battery as the low voltage supply. If the battery gives too much, you will have a welder in your engine.

[plasmahunt3r]

Blocking Cap

I didn't understand this statement.

With a cap as the low voltage source, the high current of course is because of the accelerated discharge time from the negative resistance effect.

The capacitor is a Blocking Capacitor, separating the Low Voltage / High Current DC side from the Low Current / High Voltage AC side. The High voltage and the High Current merge at the spark. The cap is not the low voltage source. It isolates the low voltage DC source from the high voltage AC source.

Also: No, I don't have an oscilloscope. I plan to get one as soon as funds allow.

[Aaron]

HV and LV mixing

I didn't understand this statement.

With a cap as the low voltage source, the high current of course is because of the accelerated discharge time from the negative resistance effect.

The capacitor is a Blocking Capacitor, separating the Low Voltage / High Current DC side from the Low Current / High Voltage AC side. The High voltage and the High Current merge at the spark. The cap is not the low voltage source. It isolates the low voltage DC source from the high voltage AC source.

Also: No, I don't have an oscilloscope. I plan to get one as soon as funds allow.

Yes, I do know you are using a cap in place of where a diode is normally put for the plasma mixing of hv low current with low voltage high current.

I am saying that when a cap is used as the low voltage source 400v 4uf for example, the high current automatically happens because as the cap discharges across a gap ionized by high voltage, the discharge is accelerated into a negative resistance. That happens because of the strong attraction to a much higher positive voltage over the same gap - a much stronger attraction than what the negative of the cap is normally associated with. When that happens, the time of the impulse is reduced way smaller than the same cap with a conventional discharge into a positive resistance and therefore, the current during that ultra fast impulse is greatly increased - even with a very low capacitance capacitor.

So conceptually, you could have a 400v 4uf cap discharge and if it is able to discharge fast enough, the impulse current could be thousands of amps IF that potential discharges in a fast enough period of time.

You probably know this, but I'm just clarifying to be ultra clear.

A 400v cap at about 13uf is about 1 joule of potential energy. If that cap discharged 100% of that 1 joule over 1 second, that is 1 watt of dissipated energy for 1 second. 1 watt / 400v = 0.0025 amps, which is very little.

Obviously over the second, the voltage drops and so does the current over that discharge but for simplicity, it shows the concept but it is that much amperage at the start of the discharge.

If we take that same 1 joule of potential and discharge 100% of it in 100th of 1 second, we have a 100 watt discharge from the same 1 joule instead of just 1 watt (if it is discharged over only 1/100 of a second). So 100 watts / 400 volts = 0.25 amps.

If the same 1 joule is discharged over 1/1000 of a second, we have a 2.5 amp discharge for the first part of the discharge.

1/10000 = 25 amps, 1/100000 = 250 amps, etc...

The negative resistance part is that if you take a capacitor mentioned above and simply discharge it into an ignition coil, etc. over the time of the discharge, the intrinsic resistances that are in the discharge path hold back how fast the cap can discharge so it discharges into a positive resistance. The cap discharge graph will be a line going down at a 45 degree angle roughly as a common example or a slight downward curve.

However, if that cap is discharged over a gap that is ionized with HV, most of the cap is discharged almost in a straight line down, meaning the resistances that it would normally encounter are gone and the cap is now discharging into a path where resistance mostly disappears because the "current" from the capacitor is being pulled out of the cap instead of it moving from a cap into a positive resistance. It is being pulled out of the cap by the very high voltage that it is normally not associated with. That is what makes it accelerate so the impulse current is way higher than conventional predictions allow for if taking the conventional specs of the line resistance, etc... into consideration.

As a note, nothing is actually stored in a cap and cap is just a separation of potential differences (dipole) and the voltage potential comes form the aether polarized to the cap terminals and then over the wire, over the gap and to the common ground shared with the high voltage source. I don't want to get into those concepts, but just have to disclaim my belief and it doesn't change the operating mechanics of the mixing of LV and HV over a gap with a common ground.

Anyway, you are talking about using a battery as the low voltage source. However, it is normally very difficult to get a LV source such as a battery to follow over a gap as the LV source after the HV ionizes the gap. If you're familar with the so-called "Gray Tube" motor, that Gray Tube patent shows the exact concept of the HV mixing with a LV source over the gap but using a diode/triode/thyristor, etc... and not a gap, means the HV goes to the LV side first, those shut off and the only path to ground left is over the gap (from rods to grid in the "Gray Tube" situation), through an inductor to ground. That creates a high speed impulse that is way faster than is normally possible for the exact reasons I mention above.

However, they used batteries as the LV source to follow over the ionized path to the grids without current restriction with a resistor like you're showing. If what you are describing actually easily lets the battery follow over the gap, then you're doing what is normally experimentally difficult to do especially if the HV source is a simple ignition coil output.

Do you have pictures of your setup to show what it all looks like?

[plasmahunt3r]

My Circuit

I am working on a different goal and I have been documenting my progress on the "PLASMA ROCKET ENGINE" forum. My testing has some crossover benefits for water sparkplug experiments.

Here is my bench test circuit:

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9ca97001.png

Here is the layout producing a Plasma Arc:

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...psfa2d1ccc.jpg

Here is my test setup arcing a spark plug:

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...ps95ccefe1.jpg

I am now working on a new Isolated HV circuit using dual ignition coils (for twice the KV) and a separate High Current DC supply. I am also working on a 13.56 Mhz circuit for RF Plasma Generation, but I am not ready to post those yet.

I can post the picture of my dual Ignition coil setup. With the dual coils, antiphase, I get twice the KV, but still low current. However, once the blocking caps are connected to second spark gap, the current increases exponentially, and you get Plasma Arc's on both spark gaps. without using a separate DC source. The second spark gap isn't necessary. You can skip the second gap by connecting the two green wires together (which is connecting the two caps together). In this situation, they are not blocking caps anymore, but amplyfying the current as caps do.

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1385219285

I also have a new ignition coil driver circuit that I have never seen posted anywhere before. I am using a doorbell transformer as a MOSFET Gate Driver circuit, which in turn is used to pulse an ignition coil at 60 times a second. Good for bench testing. The ignition coil runs on a separate 12v DC supply. I like merging AC and DC together. It has opened up alot of possibilities that weren't available before.

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6bcaacf8.png

[plasmahunt3r]

Simple Plasma Arc

I have an update to the Plasma Arc circuit that will convert a non-resistor spark plug to plasma, without requiring a separate DC source. When I place a high KV capacitor parallel to spark gap (or spark plug), I get some kind of feed back that converts a normal spark into a Plasma Arc.

This works better on a spark gap composed of 1/4 inch diameter electrodes with a larger spark gap. It still works on a non resistor spark plug, but the tiny electrodes seems to limit the arc.

Here is the change:

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...pse83f873c.png

[Aaron]

Plasma Ignition

I have an update to the Plasma Arc circuit that will convert a non-resistor spark plug to plasma, without requiring a separate DC source. When I place a high KV capacitor parallel to spark gap (or spark plug), I get some kind of feed back that converts a normal spark into a Plasma Arc.

This works better on a spark gap composed of 1/4 inch diameter electrodes with a larger spark gap. It still works on a non resistor spark plug, but the tiny electrodes seems to limit the arc.

Here is the change:

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...pse83f873c.png

Thanks for sharing your work on this. The plasma you're making is the same as what many of us have experimented on here but you're creating it in a slightly different way but still with the same parameters of mixing HV with LV.

The cap in parallel with the gap is called a "peaking cap" and is actually a fairly common racing ignition modification - or at least used to be fairly common. The ignition coil fills up the cap first and when the peak voltage is reached, the ignition coils fires over the gap and the cap simultaneously discharges. Actually, that is all Pulstar plugs are - a peaking cap built inside, but it has a lot of resistance so is not that great. There are some wires like Nology that have this capacitance built into their wires. Here are some comparisons compared to my plasma setup:

As you can see, the standard Kettering Spark Ignition can be as low as 0.01% efficient in converting power to a spark at the gap, which runs almost every gasoline powered engine in the world. Peaking Capacitors are MASSIVELY more efficient at converting the standard spark ignition power to a spark - upwards to 50% efficient! Notice that is 50% and NOT one-hundredths of one percent. That is quite a difference, but is all the hype justified? Capacitive Discharge Ignition systems have a separate power supply and are the prime choice for serious results. The dense blue ball at the gap is substantially more powerful than the peaking cap but it is hard to tell from the picture. MURAKAMI IGNITION method uses the SAME amount of power as the CDI system but is so much brighter and more powerful that it is beyond words. It isn't even a spark or an enhanced spark - it is in a category all by itself - it is a bright white ball of wonder!
With the peaking cap, the plugs will last way longer but it is actually not the same form of plasma discharge that you get when you mix a LV source with the HV.

I like how you did the 60hz trigger by the wall power itself. Peter Lindemann and I did this to see if we could even get the plasma at about 50hz, which is enough to run a lawnmower on the plasma for some tests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H5CuvFlU2M
We used a 555 circuit to trigger an SCR - worked pretty good and proved the point.

Not sure if you're aware of it, but this plasma grows under compression with a lot of air jammed on it and with moisture, even bigger, which of course is the opposite of conventional ignitions sparks/"plasmas".

[plasmahunt3r]

Plasma Dual Coil

My new dual circuit setup provided enough current in the Plasma Arc to burn aluminum.

Set up two isolated circuits and tied together at two electrodes for the Plasma Arc. The Plasma Arc burned aluminum (on the positive electrode).

The left circuit is a dual ignition coil setup with two blocking capacitors.

The Plasma electrodes are the Arc is in the middle.

The right circuit is a step-up transformer to produce 318V DC and charges two 450V 1800 Uf capacitors. Both circuits tie together at the plasma electrodes.

Here is a picture of both circuits producing the Plasma:
http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7b9b682b.jpg

I am going back to the "Plasma Rocket Engine" forum where I will post the details/schematic.