Electrolysis on salt water, effects?

[scoodidabop]

Hey guys.

I'm pretty new to this scene, and I plan on building a WFC soon.

Quick question; what happens when you use salt (ocean) water in the Meyer's style fuel cell? Would the hho output have other elements added? If so, which ones and would they negatively effect an IC engine?

Also.... has anyone had any luck using the bifilar chokes yet?

Thanks,
Chris

[Jetijs]

I would not use salt at all, salt is bad, because it creates sludge and scum in the water. Heres a picture with the salt water after enectrolysis test:

That was 10 litres of distilled water with only 2 teaspoonns of salt added.
The water tends to purify itself after a while. So do not use salt. If you want to increase the conductivity of the water, the best thing I have found is phosphoric acid ( food grade ). You need only a half of teaspoon added to 3 litres of water to increase the amp draw form 0.1 to 1A at 12V. You could also use vinegar, bet you will need to add very much of it to acheive the same amp draw, so that your water will "go bad". But for what I know, Meyer used distilled water and no electrolyte, he wanted the water potentialized with no current, only high voltage.

[scoodidabop]

Thanks for the info, and nasty pics.

The only reason I ask about salt water is because it's so freakin abundant. Fresh water is semi limited (without expensive desalinizing processes) and I think it would be revolutionary to have a device that could utilize the abundant supply of the oceans.

Eh, maybe I'm just dreaming.

So do the elements of the salt separate as well into sodium and chloride? Are those elements causing the funky gunk-y?

Thanks

[Redmeanie]

Not to mention the Chlorine Gas produced when you use salt water.... One other option that I have used is KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) It only takes a pinch, and it is not consumed during electrolysis. That means you only add it once to the cell to get the amperage you want, then after that you just add the water as it is consumed. It is available pretty cheap like $10 for 32oz, which should last you a LONG time. I bought mine here>>>Summer Bee Meadow handcrafted soaps , soapmaking supplies , how to make soap information and soap formula for beginners , soap making lye calculator , soap recipe resizer , SBM soap starter system , complete soapmaking kit , 3 oils mix
Hope that helps....

[Redmeanie]

Scoodi.....You are not the only one who is looking at using the abundance of the salt water...I live on an Island !! Im working on a Generator system that would take Salt water from the sea, create electricity, and here goes you a hint for your problem, DISTILLS the salt water all at the same time....

[Aaron]

salt water

Stan Meyer did say you could use salt water in his cell but he didn't mention anything about sludge, etc... so maybe that was up to everyone to figure out for themselves.

For electrolyte before, I did try Red Devil drain cleaner once and added about 1/2 tspn for 1 gallon of water...that was a LOT!! It was drawing almost 5 amps at only a couple volts but without it, I could get about 30+ volts at 5 amps so it is super conductive.

A few have tried calcium hydroxide to speed the calcium coating on the cathode. Kalkwasser powder at aquarium stores might be a cheap source for that. I think Adam Ant can comment on that one since he owns a pet store or aquarium store??

I'm working on something with no conductivity at all.

[Redmeanie]

One other way to use the salt water and keep the sludge to a minimum is to circulate the water using a pump, constantly refreshing and flushing your electrolysis cell. A very cheap, reliable and high efficiency pump to use is a motorcycle fuel pump. They can be had on eBay for about $30 new and around $15 used. Look for one for a newer bike under 600cc.

[adam ant]

has anyone thought to try and smelt the sludge???


Kalkwasser is about $10 - $12 for about 500 grams.
you can find it here... Seachem Reef Kalkwasser

Aaron, i wonder if the tubes inserted into a kalkwasser stirrer, or similar device would help even the coating

[Aaron]

kalkwasser powder

I'm not familiar with a stirrer for this...does that powder have a tendency to clump in tanks if not stirred or something?

A few people got the best gas production ever when adding to the pulsed DC cell setups. Probably comparable to koh or naoh. I only recommended it because it has calcium hydroxide, which will apply to the cathode as calcium oxide. And if there is magnesium in that powder...also magnesium oxide, which both are white powder coatings.

Got a msg recently through youtube with someone asking about the powder. Sounds they are into some interesting things and has interesting ideas about the powder. Not sure what they are referring to yet, but if they're open to me posting anything on it, I will.

[adam ant]

the kalwasser stirrer simply vortexes the water to help dissolve the calcium.

[Karl_Palsness]

why salt?

SM shoes charts of different types of water, example sea water, tap water, distilled water, and ultra pure water. The point is the charts show that the more pure the water is the better the gas production and the more energy the gas has. If you look into the court hearings on SM you will also see that no salt or electrolyte is needed or actually desired.

I personally will not be using salt or electrolyte in my SM cell. The SM system is designed to work on voltage potential not amps…

[R.E.Craig]

Hey guys.

I'm pretty new to this scene, and I plan on building a WFC soon.

Quick question; what happens when you use salt (ocean) water in the Meyer's style fuel cell? Would the hho output have other elements added? If so, which ones and would they negatively effect an IC engine?

Also.... has anyone had any luck using the bifilar chokes yet?

Thanks,
Chris

Salt water is fine for the production of amperage and voltage but the dissolution products are messy and the production of chlorine gas is not to be recommended, but pure water in itself is not an efficient conductor meaning that you will need to push a higher current through the Anode.

As a means of overcoming this inefficiency I would recommend that you use a solid proton conductor in the bath such as Nafion. Teflon has similar characteristic's, though I have no idea of it's efficiency?

[Jeff Pearson]

exactly....you want to limit current as much as possible, then the cell stays cold and does not try to destroy itself. SM used voltage potential, not current. It does work, had an experimental cell pulsed with a SINGLE frequency back in January. used coils salvaged from old TVs for charging chokes, some worked better than others. Ran the cell for over an hour, stayed ice cold, and didn't drain my small solar system. Using standard electrolysis would have drained my batteries in a half hour or less. Freq came from 555 timer, no pulse width adjustment, audio range. In general higher freq worked better (5M pot) but there were a few places in between that had better gas production. I DID NOT find a frequency that didn't work. Oh yeah, well water..no electrolyte. You overcome inefficiency by not allowing amps to flow. Amps flowing lowers efficiency

[Jeff Pearson]

ELECTROGRAVITATIONAL DESALINATION OF SALINE WATER
this is cool, it makes electricity, HHO and desalinates water. Basically a brine battery

[R.E.Craig]

Talking of cool, a battery in which the electrolyte is frozen makes a far more efficient charge carrier!