All about electrolysers, HHO, joecells ect. :)

[Gre]

Hi Everyone,

Jetis, Aaron,

Have you guys tried to extract the electrical energy out of H and O gas produced with a "Fuel Cell Generator"? It'd be interesting to see if you could turn the gas into electrical energy, and would be good way to experimentally determine if you are making higher energy monatomic H, etc.

Thanks,
Greg

[ANTIQUER]

Meyers cell explained !

Hi Jetis;

This just came in from S1R. Looks very interesting and relevant to the experiments you and others are doing. Hope it helps.

Yahoo! Groups

Al

[renaud67]

This is jsut copy/past from Fearjar ... who disappeared from any forum not from s1r

[Jetijs]

Hi Everyone,

Jetis, Aaron,

Have you guys tried to extract the electrical energy out of H and O gas produced with a "Fuel Cell Generator"? It'd be interesting to see if you could turn the gas into electrical energy, and would be good way to experimentally determine if you are making higher energy monatomic H, etc.

Thanks,
Greg

Hi Greg. Have not tried that, do not know how to do this. If you have any ideas about that, please let them know

anyway, I can not figure out what the problem is with my genset setup. I disassembled my cell and put it together again using 4mm gaskets this time, that means 4mm spacing between plates and more water. I made a 12 cell electrolyzer but I have wired it so that there are two 6-cell arrangements in parallel. I used a new electrolyte with a high KOH concentration. The water was distilled. I made a platic bottle blow up test and it passed I mean the bottle explodes into pieces rather than just fly up in the air as it was with the 3mm plate spacing and weaker electrolyte. Then I made a base test on my gen set to see how long it would take to consume a certain amount of fuel. When I had this time, I attached the electrolyzer at 10A, 11.3V. There was no fuel economy, just additional load to the generator. The hho tube was attached to the vacuum tube of the generator that is used to open/close air valve at the starting of the engine. After this I made this test again but this time I did not attach the HHO tube to the generator, but left it disconnected so that the HHO is not used at all. The power supply settings were the same. This time the generator consumed the fuel at the same time, no difference. So where is the problem? It seems that the HHO does nothing to the engine, because it performs just as well as if the hho is not connected at all. Might it be that no hho ever gets to the combustion chamber? This is weird... Any suggestions would be apreciated

[Aaron]

hho in engine

Quite a while back, I saw where Tero or Terro ran a small engine on 100% hho. He produced enough to fill up a balloon and had this balloon over the intake probably thru some tube. That was the only fuel source and it ran on and of course stopped running when the balloon was emptied because he couldn't make enough to keep up with demand.

Maybe the hho in your situation somehow is just turning back into moisture by the time it hits the combustion chamber?

[Jetijs]

Aaron, I gave it a thought and you just might be right. I observed that over time there are water droplets visible on the inside surface of the plastic hho tube, this might be due to the vacuum, because the cell itself is not hot and that could not be steam. The vacuum gets rather strong on the tube where I am attaching the hho and it might just recombine the hho into water again. So what I will try is attaching my torch tip to the hho tube so that the hho gas pressure can build up and the hho gas is released pressurized through the torch tip nozzle into the air intake/vacuum tube. Maybe this will help
Thanks for the idea

[mrbreau]

Vacuum or no vacuum

Jetijs; I WAS going to point you to some fabulous videos on YouTube. But I decided to check them out first. They've been pulled the same way Aaron's were, "terms of use violation."

The guy's name is Roy McAlister. He's been working in Hydrogen power for more than twenty years and has his own car powered with it. He tools all around town in his car. (Way off track there! Sorry.)

One of his tenets is that you DON'T want vacuum or much vacuum. The trick is to get the hydrogen as close to the intake valve as possible. Then again, he is running on hydrogen only and not HHO.

This may or may not help.

Warren
..

[Jetijs]

Thanks Warren
This just confirms my suspicion
Will try this out tomorrow

[mrbreau]

Roy McAlister

Here is a place you can "rent" a DVD for $9.99 on his stuff. They say there is 210 minutes on it. I think it is well worth the cost/money.

Link; Alternative Energy instruction video: How to Run Engines and Cars on Hydrogen and Other Fuels by Roy McAlister and Steven Harris

Warren
..

[mrbreau]

Aaaaaaahhhh!

YouTube isn't the only kid on the block! Here is another link to the videos.

Link; Roy Mcalister Videos - Metacafe

WARNING!!! These videos could be addicting.

I've spent a LOT of hours watching them at the *other* place.

Good luck.

Warren
..

[Jetijs]

Doesn't seem to be working. Do those videos work on your computer?

[mrbreau]

Sorry!

I ASSUMED that because they were on Metacafe they would work and didn't try them. Since you reported a problem I went back and tried them, only to find out they are links to the YouTube videos. DRAT!!!!

I'll keep looking around to see what I can come up with.

BTW; there was a link in that link I sent to copy the full four hour DVD at *piratescove* if you know anything about them.

It is here; Hho Class 3.1-.9 of 7.9 - Video
the link is to *piratebay* not piratecove as I said.

After watching some of the video I think this is NOT what you might be looking for.

It is probably better to just rent the DVD and be done with it.

Warren
..

[Jetijs]

Ok, today I tested various hho setups the whole day. I can now confirm, that the hho gas does not like vacuum. At first I tried to connect the hho tube with the air intake via the hho torch, so that there is a much smaller hole for the hho to travel trough, I thought that this will increase the pressure in the electrolyzer and improve things. But I was wrong. I set the power supply to 10A and the economy at this current was -13%. Then I set the current to 20A and the economy dropped even more, to about -15%. Then I replaced the torch tip with a small medical needle and injected that needle in the vacuum tube that controls the air intake at starting the engine. I left the other end of the tube unconnected so that it is easier for the engine to suck air from the open end of the tube rather than through the small needle opening. This improved things alot. At 8A I got +1.7% fuel economy. Then I tried lower currents, I set the power supply to 3.5A and this resulted in +3.5% fuel economy. Then I lowered the current some more - to 2A. This gave the best result so far, +5% economy. Any less current and the economy starts to drop. Still this is not as good as I have hoped for, but I am getting closer. So 2A looks like a sweetspot in current for an engine this small, considering that I use stock timings. Maybe under greater load I could get better economy, but that is yet to be tested. So far I have two explanations for the current/economy relation. One possibility is that at higher amps, more HHO is produced and we know that too much hho is bad if you can not change the timing. The other possibility could be that more amps is a biger load to the generator thus also greater fuel consumption.
Tomorrow I will make more tests using higher loads on the generator (today I used only 600w of load). Any other suggestions that I could try out?

[hhoexclusive]

tube spacing

i am in process of building a cell this will be same design as my current 12 tube design at present i use a 2.5mm gap. i would like to see how close i can get the spacing down everything will be designed on cad then machined on a cnc mill i was thinking of using a gap of .5 to 1mm can anyone see a problem with this. ie high voltage with my setup is there a risk of explosion like a water sparkplug reaction?

[Guest]

No that spacing should be no problem, if you are doing the Meyer cell it will be an advantage since your Q value will increase, hence the gas production. However you need to tune the choke more carefully.

The most important detail is that the pipes must be absolutely straight and keep the same spacing along the cylinders otherwise the result will be bad.