All about electrolysers, HHO, joecells ect. :)

[kumaran]

Hi Alex,

Yes, the diagram should work fine. About question more plates or bigger plates? It's up to you. If use bigger plates, use less plates and wise versa. I would suggest to keep cell size similar to NS70 battery. You may use 6 inch plate size. Just look at battery cell plates (size and gap between plates) to get some idea.

Leave 0.5 inch to 1 inch space at bottom of the cell (dump dirts if any). For top, leave at least 3 inch from plate to top cover. Plate gap 3mm. Electrolyte level just above plate (0.5 inch). Leave 2 - 2.5 inch space between electrolyte to top cover. This is to cater for flothing (foam) happens when electrolyste is cold.

I have attached simple design on how the electrolyser should look like.

[Alex S]

Thank you for all of the info!

I'm going to the steel yard today to try and find some for a decent price.

I only have one question, are cell dividers necessary?

Thanks,

Alex

[kumaran]

I only have one question, are cell dividers necessary?

Alex

Yes. Cell devider is must for series cell to prevent electrolyte to cross over into other cells.

[adam ant]

check out my idea for splitting water.

i want to use a high voltage stun gun circuit with the spark gap under the water. there is a guy on you tube that has something similar, but the circuitry is never disclosed. all you see is a spark gap under the water, and 1 liter of WATER is gone in about 1 - 2 minutes.. i dont know what that translates into liters of H-H-O production, but i know that i have yet to see that much output with traditional eletrolyzing. he fills a one liter (approx) bottle with gas in about 7 seconds. this is about 8 1/2 liters per minute.

even John Aarons with the hydrogen tap series does not split that much water.

here is a simple schematic

Build this Stun-Gun

and here is the youtube video: "Bingo Fuel Reactor"

YouTube - The BingoFuel Reactor


bryan

[Jetijs]

Bryan,
the tests in the video are performed using just two carbon electrodes as a spark gap under water. The gap spacing is about 1mm and he is using a low voltage welding machine that can output up to 120 amps at about 50V. This just happened to be my first "free energy" project about 2 years ago. I bought a low cost welding machine, a water filter for the cell and some 1.5 batteries that have 6mm diameter carbon rods in them. I hope I can find a video that I made back then. The problem with this setup is that you need a very conducting water. I had to add 2 table spoons of backing soda in about 2 liters of water to get the initial spark. Also you need very heavy gauge wires that can handle this many amps, because mine started to melt quickly. Also the water got hot very quickly and it was said that the gas is quite toxic, not as pure HHO. Also the carbon electrodes melted off after each test thus increasing the gap. And with these voltages you could not get the initial spark if your gap was bigger than 1mm. So you had to adjust the gap each test. Back then I did not know anything about electricity and the principles behind all that, also my machining skills were weak so I abandoned this project and sold the welding machine. But it was much fun though. If I find those videos I will upload them on youtube. Good that you reminded me about this, I had almost forgot this experiment So you see that this has nothing to do with high voltage, but your idea of using stun gun is quite interesting, I would be glad to hear your results
Thanks,
Jetijs

[kumaran]

Hi Bryan/Jetijs,

I did some experiment previously on bingo fuel. I use 2 carbon electrode (got from dry cell battery) and tap water without electrolyte. I use 12V 70AH battery for power supply. Since I use 12V, I need to set electrode gap very close (sometimes touching). Power on spark between electrode helps to break water. On top of that poisonous gas being realease.

As Jetijs said, the setup requires lots of amp to produce poisonous gas (not worth it). Why wanna kill ourself? Also the electrode reaction area melts and need electrode gap adjustment often to keep electrode gap closer.

[adam ant]

yes, i understand both of your assessments, but that was the reason for my own adaptation with the extremely high voltage (low amps) stun gun circuit. that high of voltage (up to 1 million volts) should be able to jump the gap, even with minimal amounts of electrolyte. with such low amounts of amperage, the temp should stay low, the electrodes should not melt, and efficiency would be pretty high.
i would opt out using the normal 9.8v battery and shoot for a constant supply instead, avoiding the normal drops that battery operated stun guns have.
another thing... i think that using a pointed tip electrode is wasteful.
i think a gap shaped like a ball and hitch (for towing) would also reduce wear.
i got this idea when doing research into nerve synapsis. the nerves are shaped just like the ball and hitch. this way stainless steel could be used instead of tungsten or brass.

and, by limiting the amount of electrolyte in the water, you limit the amount of harmful output.

with this, you are basically plasma cutting the water and everything in it.

it may even be more advisable to start the spark gap outside of the water, and slowly submerse it.



what do you think?


bryan

[Aaron]

400% claim

He claims 400% with his setup and measurements:
YouTube - OVER UNITY WATER SEPARATION SUPER LOW CURRENT ALOT OF GAS

AC, 5000v, 30ma = 150watts

[kumaran]

Hi Bryan,

I did test Bedini circuit by making use BEMF for electrolysis for couple of months before. It works. But I don't see too much of gas for such low input of power. Ravi from India replicated Stan Meyer's system using simple pulsing circuit (published in Patrick Kelly's doc) to output more gas using very little power. I totally agree that pulse circuit performs at better efficiency compared to series cell to produce more gas with little input.

At the end I dropped the idea to further experiment on pulsing circuit because I opt for simplicity. Car alternator can produce 12V and enough amps to generate good amount of hydroxy and power rest of device in car. Series cell (more complex to build than single cell) runs efficiently to boost power for cars. Resonance drive like Boy Boyce and Stan Meyer will definetely give out more gas output for sure.

Now come back to your question on using high voltage and arc inside water to produce has. I tried but with no success. I use motorbike spark plug coil and drive with home made pulse circuit. Even at 50% pulse on I couldn't get the arc jump from anode to cathode. I made the gap as close as possible but still spark could travel inside water. At open air the system works beautifully. Why?

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not discouraging anybody from further explore on other possibility. But just sharing my experiment experience to you.

[Jetijs]

I agree to kumaran. I also tried to make a spark to jump under water between two electrodes. I used my neon sign transformer that outputs 12kV and 30mA - no luck. See this video:
YouTube - Tesla Coil Arc into Pure Water #3 ©
This guy is using a Tesla coil and is trying to make a spark jump under the water. See how the spark rather goes on the surface of the water to the other electrode than jumping under water.

See also this guy:
YouTube - Tesla Coil HHO ©

He got the high voltage spark under water, but as you can see, there is no much gas production at least not as much as with the welding machine

[Jetijs]

Found some of these:



They are from automatic car heater set. I tested them in strong KOH solution pulling about 3 amps through for about a hour. After that there was no sign of corrosion at all.

BTW, I tested these connectors longer and they failed. It seems that they are made of copper and coated with silver or something like that. After a hour of testing this silver coating was only half thick and still seemed fine, but after a few more tests, the coating was gone and and only a copper metal remained. So these connectors also wont behave well in a HHO generator. So if anyone of you have an idea of where to get such connectors made out of stainless steel, I would be very grateful. Of course I could use a thin stainless steel sheet and cut it with laser in a shape of a connector and then just bend it in the right form, but that would be hard and boring task. And I know, that there are such stainless connectors already out there, but I just don't know where to get them.

[adam ant]

hmm, 12kv -- 12,000 volts.

the circuit im talking about is 1,000,000 volts.


Streetwise 1000k Volt Stun Gun w/ Alarm and Holster

-or-

SMALL FRY 1,000,000 VOLT STUN GUN



the amperage draw on these is very very small, but the extreme voltage should be able to breach the gap, even if you had a thin piece of balsa wood in between.


bryan

[kumaran]

Hi Jetijs,

BTW, I tested these connectors longer and they failed. It seems that they are made of copper and coated with silver or something like that. After a hour of testing this silver coating was only half thick and still seemed fine, but after a few more tests, the coating was gone and and only a copper metal remained. So these connectors also wont behave well in a HHO generator. So if anyone of you have an idea of where to get such connectors made out of stainless steel, I would be very grateful. Of course I could use a thin stainless steel sheet and cut it with laser in a shape of a connector and then just bend it in the right form, but that would be hard and boring task. And I know, that there are such stainless connectors already out there, but I just don't know where to get them.

Using clip type connector for connecting cells is safe if the electrolyte covers the clip. Any spark happens inside electrolyte would not cause any explosion. But over period of time when water used up in electrolysis process and electrolyte just below connector clip, situation becomes dangerous as small spark could cause explosion. Even using bolt and nut as connector for positive and negative in my design is still dangerous. Bob Boyce even advice to weld the connector bolt to end plates.

[ANTIQUER]

joe cells, etc.

hi! jetijs a couple of comments on stuff you may or may not know; I see comments where people are trying to melt rocks with varied results. according to H2earth the flame carries some type of electrical charge which is why it works well on metal but not ceramics or stone. MAYBE THE STONES THAT MELTED TO SOME DEGREE HAD METAL CONTENT. Second i thought Stan Meyers circuitry solved the heat amperage problems. Last you might want to check out G-cells. I havn't been able to find out much info. on them but they seem to generate a lot of HHO on small amps. there is a guy selling them on e-bay . Type in hydrogen on the main page & then 4tro . This will take you to his stuff & links to videos on you-tube. By the way any one experimenting with lye & aluminum in water be very careful. that is a serious reaction without adding electric current to the mix.

[dodeca]

Just a thought about neon sign neon sign transformer - no luck.

I agree to kumaran. I also tried to make a spark to jump under water between two electrodes. I used my neon sign transformer that outputs 12kV and 30mA - no luck.

Do those things ( neon sign transformer's ) put out AC or DC?

I think ac fails for water separation.

Unless it's the resonate frequency of water in an LC circuit.

Dodeca