All about electrolysers, HHO, joecells ect. :)

[Jetijs]

Hi all
Since nobody has started a thread about joecells or simple electrolysers, I will. I have watched many many videos about elecytrolysis, joecells, HHO torches and so on. I have experimented with joecells, although this has almost nothing to do with electrolysis since it is an orgone or aether accumulator, there is some concepts there that I will use for my electrolyser. So my goal is to make an medium power HHO torch to investigate the flame and some properties of the water that is produced by burning the HHO gas. Of course I want to do this as efficient as I can. I studied through all the electrolysis manuals on Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices
And finally came up with such electrolyser design:


There are six separated compartments in this electrolyser, this way I can connect the plates in series and power it all from 12v, that would be a little less than 2V per compartment. Since the gas production goes up if the voltage is increased from 0-1.24V, above that voltage all the energy goes into waste in the form of heat. And heating is a big problem in many of those youtube video electrolysers. The theory is that it makes no difference in gas production if you are using 1.24V and 10 Amps or 1000V and 10 amps. So we must use the nearest voltage possible to the 1.24v, this increases the efficiency and eliminates the heat problem. Also my experience with joecells suggested me to use also some neutral plates in each compartment, since this reduces the amp draw and does not affect the gas production. Also these neutral plates put a big portion of radiant potential in the water and gas, basically the gas becomes more powerful. Joe says that with neutral plates a new gas is formed in the electrolyser, that has some radiant properties along the ordinary HHO properties. Maybe that is the radiant energy gaseous fluid that manifests itself in form of HHO gas and makes ir more powerful, I don't know So basically the plates (150x200x1mm) in each compartment are placed in the following manner: positive, neutral, negative, neutral, positive. This way I can produce gas form both sides of the negative plate. The electrolyser outer walls are made of 8mm thick plexyglass and the wall between compartments is 5mm thick. They are glued together with dichlorethane. Here are some more pictures:



I made some simple plate spacers form plexyglass. This way I can simply slide the plates in each compartment easily and the spacers hold them 5mm apart of each other and about 10mm from the bottom so that the water can flow around.

[Jetijs]

Next I made the top cover plate of the electrolyser. This time I used a polycarbonate sheet 8mm in thickness. Polycarbonate is more dense and does not shatter or crack under any circumstances. Since there will be tension and pressure from the bolts that are holding the cover to the electrolyser, and the e will be some stress on the material form the 1/4" output thread, the plycarbonate is a way to go.




Here you can see two separate compartments assembled with plates.



I haven't finished this electrolyser yet, but I will keep you informed about my progress in this field. I am going to test how it behaves if powered with my 6 coil SSG, what will be the gas production difference form an ordinary power supply. Also I have an regulated 30V, 20A PSU that I can use to prove if it is indeed true that the voltage does not matter, but the current does

So if you have any comments or suggestions, you are welcome
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Redmeanie]

Looks Good...

Looks Very Well Designed, Assembled.... Only thing I would modify is the spacing between your plates. It looks like they may be a little too far apart....The closer the better....

Im not real big on the "Boyce" style designs but will definetly like to see how this works for you!

[Jetijs]

Thanks Redmeanie,
the recommended spacing between plates is 3-5mm, since I had only 5mm plexi glass, I used that for spacing. I think that with enough electrolyte the spacing wont be a problem Also I forgot to drill a tinny little hole in the plate between compartments, this would allow to even out the water level in each compartment.

[theremart]

RE: Design

I was watching some videos on youtube about hydrogen production, and it seemed that the "V" arrangement seemed to have a remarkable amount of production ( John Aarons videos see widow maker )

Another thing that stuck me was the electrolyte, the new thing is to use distilled vinegar. It seems to me this would be far less dangerous then the some of the other electrolytes.

I have also looked at making hydrogen with Aluminum combined with lye. This seems very dangerous but the production is awesome. I have found a video of this method on both Youtube and AOL online

Plans to use aluminum to make hydrogen.
Build your own hydrogen generator plans

Sirhoax on Youtube has a cell that he has made from Lowes stainless steel light plates using a computer power supply. I thought this was a very clever means of hydrogen production.

[gabriolaman]

nice one jetis looks like it was made by nasa

[Jetijs]

Yes, I have seen Sirhoax'es videos. The problem with his plates is heat, because he uses whole 12v between pates. His plates are arranged in P,N,P,N,P ect. arrangement. My design has also neutral plates inside, will see what that does
But I like the idea of Sirhoax about using bronze wool in the flashback arrestor, many people seem to get great results with such a system

I don't think it is wise to use vinegar as the electrolyte in a plexy glass electrolyzer since acids like to destroy the plexiglass material at its weakest points.


This is how the cover of my joecell looked like when I tried vinegar as an electrolyte. That's why I made the top plate from polycarbonate. I think I will use baking soda or KOH as the electrolyte in my electrolyzer.

Speaking about aluminum. Yes, you can use this material for the plates, but I would not recommend this, because it may produce a lot of gas very quickly, but the plates also are being slowly "eaten up". I made some experriments with aluminum plates, after a longer use they become useless

Thanks,
Jetijs

[kumaran]

Low voltage high efficient electrolyser

Hi Jetijs,

I have been following your inspiring work for some time now. Since you show some interest in electrolysis stuff, I would like to share some of my experience on high efficient low voltage electrolysis. So far I find Bob Boyce design works best for brute force (direct dc) method which could easily break Faradays law on electrolysis efficiency. In order to do that, just follow strickly on Bob's suggestion like space gap, material used, electrolyte strength and so on. Read http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D9.pdf as reference.

What electrolyte are you going to use for your cell? KOH or NaOH? KOH not suitable for polycarbonate. NaOH not suitable for acrylic. KOH performs better than NaOH in terms of LPM vs efficiency. The best cell gap for series cell is 3mm between plates. Best electrolyte strength for 3mm gap series cell is 28%(KOH) or 23%(NaOH).

Only disadvantage for series cell is on electrolyte refilling. My 8 plate series cell works very well with high efficiency rate (above 100%) and able to produce 1.2LPM using 14V and 10A. I wanted to get at least 2LPM using 12V and 10A. So now I'm focusing on pulse DC and frequency for electrolysis.

You may want to refer my hobby work on 8 plate series cell.

I feel you need very much higher strength electrolyte for each compartment since the gap is wider. Check if the cell can pass through 10A below 15V. I would suggest remain 3mm gap per cell with one neutral plate in between.

[theremart]

Wow!

RE: Sirhoax

I have great admiration for his sense of adventure!... I agree with the bronze wool idea that he has is great, but for me I STILL would have a bubbler.


RE: Vinegar

EGADS! wow that makes me want to cry seeing your hard work killed with vinegar. I think it would work in all stainless steel setup, but never with plexiglass. Making due note of that.

RE: Joe Cell

I am extremely interested in this, I have seen some Youtube videos on this, but have not seen anyone doing it. Have you had much success in do things.


Thanks for your valuable insights, my next step after getting my ssg to full tilt ( charging multiple batteries at the same times ) is to generate hydrogen.

Thanks for your pioneering the way.

Mart

[Jetijs]

Hi Mart,
unfortunatelly the http://www.joecell.com.au/ web page doesn't seem to work anymore. There was an extremely good guide how to make a joecell and what that really is and how it works. Here, found a page that has a copy of this guide:
Alex Schiffer - Joe Cell - Experimenters Guide to the Joe Cell | MERLib.org

I was able to get stage 3 with my joecell, but I had to try many different water types till I found one that is most suitable. I tried rain water, water from snow, spring water and many others. Eventually I saw the water changing its structure and making some foam when electricity was applied instead of only some bubbling as in stage 1. Stage 3 means that I could probably get an engine to work on this cell, but I never tried it. Also the more I read about this stuff, the more I realized, thad I knew almost nothing about it, when I was building it. First of all the cylinder material is very important, it should be absolutely non magnetic stainless steel, because any magnetism, for example in the tube seams, prevents the cell to get a rotating magnetic field inside it. This field creates an orgone/aether vortex in the cell and we can use this to change the properties of an internal combustion motor. I suggest you to read the manual, it has many good and interesting info.

Edit: Here you can see the difference between stage 1 test cell and stage 2 test cell:



See how in the first picture the water in the cell is only bubbling, but in the second picture you can see that instead of bibbling, it actually creates a foam. That is supposed to be because the orgone/aether has already seeded in the cell, because we have made an optimum environment that it likes But if i leave the cover off an stage 2 or 3 cell, the water will eventually go in its previoys - non energetic form with only bubbling action. That means that the changes in water is not chemical. Here are some other setups I tried, not knowing anything about this stuff well at the time.



Thanks,
Jetijs

[Jetijs]

Hi all,
I finally had time to work on my electrolyzer. I made new positive and negative plates with two cuts on every side. This way I can easily wire the plates in different configurations and do not have to weld or solder anything. Here is a picture:



I also made a bubbler:



And a flashback arrestor:



The flashback arrestor is stuffed full with fine bronze wool. I will first test what effect does KOH as electrolyte on my bubbler. If it wont have any bad effects on the acrylic and no cracks will appear, I will fill up the electrolyzer with distilled water and KOH as electrolyte. Then I will make some tests and maybe a video.
Thanks,
Jetijs.

[Jetijs]

Bad news.
Just removed some of the new plates and saw a little rust on them. Yesterday I only filled the electrolyzer with tap water to see if there is any leakage, and then removed the water. This was enough to form the rust. These plates are not from stainless steel. I will have to order a new set of plates from the laser guys. That is sad, because I was ready to do first tests, bu now I can't
At least the bubler seems not affected by KOH as electrolyte.
Thanks.

[illchemist]

Wow. That's interesting stuff. I don't really understand how the orgone effects the chemistry of the water, though. Wouldn't the foam being produced just come from the varying materials found in the different sources of water? ... just like foam being produced on a beach break.

I admire your work! You are very skilled in your craftmanship.

[Redmeanie]

Shim Stock

A way to get reasonably priced stainless that you can be sure is actually stainless is to use Stainless Shim Stock. It is used by machinists in the auto industry for seals and gaskets. Its also very cheap compared to buying plates from middlemen who mark up the price to almost double what the material is worth.

[ren]

beautiful work Jet! Keep cracking it! Id be very interested to see your ssg hooked up to those plates.

One thing I will mention which you may already know. I looked into electrolyzer design before I saw the monopole. I read alot of info from Bob Boyce etc. Apparaently if you sand a cross hatch pattern on your plates this helps the gas release easier and increases the surface area. I also read that 316 stainless is the best choice for longlevity.

Good luck, test safely and keep us updated