All about electrolysers, HHO, joecells ect. :)

[Jetijs]

This is great info
Thank you alot

[Redmeanie]

Thanks!

Kumaran,
Like Jet said, Thanks for the info....I kind of did my calculations the same but yours is allot more straight forward and easy to follow!

[theremart]

White coating...

It seems to be the magic that makes it all happen.. I wonder if you were to examine the chemical make up of the coating if we could speed it up somehow?

I guess your electrolysis cells are the eye into a battery.... But I do wonder perhaps if you used sulfuric acid that is used in batteries how the chemical make up is different from the hho method.....

This is what I am hoping for with my batteries is months of conditioning to get that coating...

Mart

[kumaran]

Thank you

Hi guys,

I'm sharing my knowledge based on my experience and learn a lot from other post as well. I hope everybody benefits from info posted. We have some decent group here who willing to share knowledge and experiences. We just need to keep continue this spirit as long as we can. Earth Day 22/04/2008. What is our contribution?

[kumaran]

It seems to be the magic that makes it all happen.. I wonder if you were to examine the chemical make up of the coating if we could speed it up somehow?

I guess your electrolysis cells are the eye into a battery.... But I do wonder perhaps if you used sulfuric acid that is used in batteries how the chemical make up is different from the hho method.....

This is what I am hoping for with my batteries is months of conditioning to get that coating...

Mart

Never use other chemicals as additive to produce hydroxy gas. This is what experts like Bob Boyce advice whenever people asked about different chemical for series cell. KOH and NaOH will not be consumed and react with material used to produce poisonous gas. Many people uses baking soda as its easy to obtain from grocery shop. But baking soda does produce dangerous gas during electrolysis.

If really need cheap and fast hydrogen production without building a proper cell, then I would to suggest to use KOH or NaOH with aluminium cans. I did this experiment sometime ago. Just pour a little bit of KOH into stainless steel container then add aluminum pieces or softdrink aluminum can. The reaction (vigorous) between chemical and aluminum produces hydrogen.

I don't know how dangerous this gas is to our health if inhale but the reaction between aluminum can and chemical produces lots of gas for nearly 20 minutes. Electrolyte and stainless steel container gets super hot to touch. I read somewhere that one person uses this method to test run his car. One aluminium can, gives 5 mile drive. Not bad uhhh....

[Jetijs]

Today I made the vinyl spacers 2x less wide, this increased the surface area by about 60x60mm on each plate. Also I cross sanded all the plates, all this should give a big improvement. Will start conditioning the plates now
Thanks

[Jetijs]

Hello,
While my plates are being conditioned, I have a question. What about those ultrasonic devices? How are they applied? I had a ultrasonic foger a while ago. If I put it under water and turned it ON, a fog/steam appeared on top of the water surface, as if someone had put a piece of dry ice in the water. I saw some of youtube guys using this method to make all the small bubbles combine into larger ones quickly. I think that this could help with the foam problem, but I don't understand how this device is applied. Must it be submerged in the electrolyte to work, or can it just be placed near (outside) the electrolyzer to make a difference?

[Redmeanie]

Hello,
While my plates are being conditioned, I have a question. What about those ultrasonic devices? How are they applied? I had a ultrasonic foger a while ago. If I put it under water and turned it ON, a fog/steam appeared on top of the water surface, as if someone had put a piece of dry ice in the water. I saw some of youtube guys using this method to make all the small bubbles combine into larger ones quickly. I think that this could help with the foam problem, but I don't understand how this device is applied. Must it be submerged in the electrolyte to work, or can it just be placed near (outside) the electrolyzer to make a difference?

Jet,
They put them inside....They won't hold up to the electrolyte, I tried this a few months back. Now Im working on Vibrator Motor on the outside attached to the plate mounts through Rubber Bushings.....Kinda so the vibration from outside will transfer through the mounting bolt to the plates...So far using just a small pager vibrator on a "Booster" Archie Blue Style seems very effective and at 1.5 to 3v and less than 100ma they aren't energy hogs so one could easily be mounted on each plate mount in series.....

[Jetijs]

Thanks Red
Good idea about those small pager motors vibrating each plate
User lemontree suggested that maybe in order to fight the foam problem we could just paint the upper plate area (the one where the venting holes are) with some KOH resistant paint. This would insulate the upper part of the pates so that the foam can climb as high as it wants and even ho through the cells. Afetr all that plate area does not do anything and is just waisted space so painting it would not affect the cell efficiency. I think this is a good idea. What do others think? And can you suggest a paint or varnish that could withstand the harsh environment?

[Redmeanie]

Thanks Red
Good idea about those small pager motors vibrating each plate
User lemontree suggested that maybe in order to fight the foam problem we could just paint the upper plate area (the one where the venting holes are) with some KOH resistant paint. This would insulate the upper part of the pates so that the foam can climb as high as it wants and even ho through the cells. Afetr all that plate area does not do anything and is just waisted space so painting it would not affect the cell efficiency. I think this is a good idea. What do others think? And can you suggest a paint or varnish that could withstand the harsh environment?

I believe the paint idea would work in your cell. The only paint that I can think of that may hold up in the KOH would be a 2 Part Paint Like used on vehicles. I believe they have a Poly type that basically is an industrial type plastic when cured. I know its the same paint they use on Fiberglass vehicles so it bonds well. I would also choose a color that would be easily visible through the Cell top and sides, that way you could easily see if it was holding up to the environment, and if it was being removed. That way you could remove it if not before it ended up at the bottom of your cell ruining the bottom. I would imagine it would turn to some pretty nasty sludge if it couldn't hold up.

[TuxAir]

What about a Plastic Tool Dip like they sell at harbor freight? You can dip or paint this stuff on. I use it to repair my handles at work. And it resists some nasty chemicals such as Skydrol.

Description:
LASTS 10 TIMES LONGER THAN PAINT
Simply dip the handles of screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers, and other tools for a comfortable insulated non-slip grip. Forms a durable weather-tight seal against moisture, air, chemicals, and corrosion.

Bonds to wood, metal, concrete, foam, and almost any other surface.Great for ski and bicycle carrier racks, padlocks, and a variety of color coding operations.

ITEM 2686-2VGA

$6.99

[Jetijs]

Ok, thank you guys
This is worth trying, but it is just that if you want to paint the upper area of each plate, you must consider the paint thickness. For example, if the paint thickness is say 0.2mm, that means that the upper side of each plate will be 0.4mm thicker. If we have 30 plates, that will add 12mm to upper side thickness. That is not good. So in order to get everything right I will probably need to paint the whole plate, leaving only the active electrolysis area unpainted, like this:

[kumaran]

Foam crawling problem

Hi guys,

I really don't know how could ultrasonic fogger and paint could solve the foam crawling up problem. I didn't experiment on these two methods as you have suggested. It's good to try out new methods to solve problem but before that we must understand the root cause of the problem.

First, why foam develops in the cell? Foam develops when the electrolyte is cold or hot? For example, foam crawling up problem will not happen with newly prepared electrolyte. Why? Because the electrolyte is still fresh and warm. When the electrolyte left it cool off overnight, the next day power on will see foam crawling up problem.

I did some simple experiment with open top series cell design. During conditioning process when the electrolyte stays warms, I tried to add cold distil water. Immediately, I could see the more foams on that particular cell. Then I tried to blow air on top of the cell and same effects observed. So I concluded this is because of cold electrolyte.

How to solve this problem? Use small heater to heat up the electrolyte before turn on power to electrolyser. This should solve the problem.

[nismotekk]

Some questions

Hi all,
I am new to this thread, and I hope I am not interupting, but I am just trying to educate myself on HHO electrolyzers. I am fascinated with this technology and I am going to build one this weekend to install on my 2002 nissan sentra. I am a nissan senior specialist, and I will be doing extensive testing on the engine after the unit is installed. Things I will be looking at are o2s front and rear, short term and long term fuel trim, fuel injector duration, mass air flow, and coolant temp sensor. My nissan is a 4 cylinder but it is set up as a 2 bank system as it has 4 o2s, nissans way of monitoring emissions more accurately(1 bank per 2 cylinders). Which also gives me more accurate diagnostics. I will also perform dyno runs before and after the install, and use the 5 gas analyzer before and after. Has this testing ever been done after an electrolyzer has been installed on a OBD1 or OBD2 vehicle? I have combed the web for this info and found nothing. My sentra is a 1.8 liter and I have many questions about the right application for my vehicle. How many LPM should I look for? Where do I port the intake tube, before or after the mass air flow sensor? Has this ever damaged a mass air flow sensor?(they are very expensive)Can the system be tuned? Can it be pressurized? Has anyone ever ported directly into the upper or lower intake manifolds, or is there too much danger of explosion? Are the o2s even picking up on the extra o2 expelled?since it is such a small amount when you actually compare it to the volume of air that the engine takes in. Also is there a reputable company that makes HHO electrolyzers? I have seen many on the web, but I am very wary on most. Sorry about the bombardment of questions, but I am eager to learn more, and I have found this website to be excellent when it comes to information on this subject. I appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!
Chris

[Redmeanie]

Hi all,
I am new to this thread, and I hope I am not interupting, but I am just trying to educate myself on HHO electrolyzers. I am fascinated with this technology and I am going to build one this weekend to install on my 2002 nissan sentra. I am a nissan senior specialist, and I will be doing extensive testing on the engine after the unit is installed. Things I will be looking at are o2s front and rear, short term and long term fuel trim, fuel injector duration, mass air flow, and coolant temp sensor. My nissan is a 4 cylinder but it is set up as a 2 bank system as it has 4 o2s, nissans way of monitoring emissions more accurately(1 bank per 2 cylinders). Which also gives me more accurate diagnostics. I will also perform dyno runs before and after the install, and use the 5 gas analyzer before and after. Has this testing ever been done after an electrolyzer has been installed on a OBD1 or OBD2 vehicle? I have combed the web for this info and found nothing. My sentra is a 1.8 liter and I have many questions about the right application for my vehicle. How many LPM should I look for? Where do I port the intake tube, before or after the mass air flow sensor? Has this ever damaged a mass air flow sensor?(they are very expensive)Can the system be tuned? Can it be pressurized? Has anyone ever ported directly into the upper or lower intake manifolds, or is there too much danger of explosion? Are the o2s even picking up on the extra o2 expelled?since it is such a small amount when you actually compare it to the volume of air that the engine takes in. Also is there a reputable company that makes HHO electrolyzers? I have seen many on the web, but I am very wary on most. Sorry about the bombardment of questions, but I am eager to learn more, and I have found this website to be excellent when it comes to information on this subject. I appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!
Chris

Chris,
Hold off on building one this weekend! Based off of the questions you have asked, and before anyone else says it, learn a little bit of the basics before jumping in head first....I will try and answer a couple then Im going to give you a link to a PDF that will give you a VERY good, though intermediate knowledge about this subject....
You are a mechanically inclined person so take these in stride...

1 st off lets address the "Booster" since that is what you intend is increasing mileage not Fuel Conversion (Im assuming)... Don't Buy one, you will be paying about 90% too much for it, they are not expensive nor complicated to build yourself.....(You will understand after you read what I send you)

2nd a "Booster" that puts out 1.5 to 1.7 LPM will be more than sufficient for a 4cyl.

3rd The HHO gas line should be tapped into the plastic, just outside the Butterfly of your throttle body....You don't want HHO gas running through a MAF that operates with Heated Wires....That would be a mistake you would know about rather quickly! ALL HHO PRODUCING DEVICES MUST run through at least one bubbler or a PROVEN Flash Back Arrestor.....

4th Pressure is not important....Volume and Flow is the Key....Pressure is an Unnecessary and dangerous element that serves absolutely NO purpose in a "Booster" set up....

5th Yes the O2's pick up the extra O2 in the exhaust and therefore without manipulating the signal to the ECU, it will dump more fuel thinking the engine is running lean....Look into EFIE Devices for this feature....

6th Some of us have run vehicles through Emissions Checks and Failed do to the Exhaust being to clean....So turn off the System when going through inspection (at least in Texas)

Now to the Nugget of Knowledge PDF...http://free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf

Read this and you will be good to go!