Hydrogen boost in Honda Accord by Kumaran

[kumaran]

Hi Jetijs,

Kumaran, that looks awesome
Hope it will perform well for you
Thanks

Thank you. I still prefer your design (series parallel design) which has many advantage compared to mine. Now I just need to ensure that I can get better fuel consumption with my current electrolyser which produces more 2LPM. Once I get better results then I move on to make even better cell.

[rangerbentman]

looking

forward to hearing your results on your test subject Kumaran. I have a 06 Subaru that I would like to try the hho on ,as long as I can remove all traces of the generator and fittings each time I take my car in for it's warranty checkover. Subie Canada says I will void my warranty if I enhance or mess with my engine in any way.

[future pather]

Subaru. . .I keep seeing a tv commercial for their plant in Indiana :

The Subaru Clean Plant

Consider this: When you carry out your trash at home on the next collection day, you'll be sending more trash to landfills than the entire Subaru manufacturing plant in Lafayette, Indiana (SIA). The Subaru plant was the first auto assembly plant to achieve zero landfill status - nothing from its manufacturing efforts goes into a landfill. It's all reused and recycled.

* In 2006, SIA was awarded the U.S. EPA's Gold Achievement Award as a top achiever in the agency's WasteWise program to reduce waste and improve recycling.
* In 2004, SIA became the first U.S. manufacturing facility to reach zero landfill status.
* In 2003, SIA became the first U.S. automotive assembly plant to be designated a wildlife habitat. Deer, coyotes, beavers, blue herons, geese, and other animals live there in peaceful coexistence with the Subaru plant. It's our commitment to leave as small a footprint as possible, delivering real-world benefits that everyone can enjoy.
* In 2002, SIA became the first auto assembly plant in the U.S. with an on-site solvent recovery system that produces dry still bottoms.
* In 1998, SIA was the first auto assembly plant in the U.S. to be ISO 14001 Certified.
* In 1994, SIA was also the first auto assembly plant in the U.S. to be smoke free.
* Each year, SIA actively recycles 99.3% of excess/leftover steel, plastic, wood, paper, glass, and other materials. The remaining 0.7% is shipped to the city of Indianapolis and incinerated to help generate steam.


Pretty cool. Here's something slightly concerning :

Subaru PZEV vehicles achieve such tight pollution controls, and the burning of fuel is so complete that in very smoggy urban areas, exhaust out of the tailpipe can actually be cleaner than the air outside.


Jessica

[ANTIQUER]

forward to hearing your results on your test subject Kumaran. I have a 06 Subaru that I would like to try the hho on ,as long as I can remove all traces of the generator and fittings each time I take my car in for it's warranty checkover. Subie Canada says I will void my warranty if I enhance or mess with my engine in any way.

Don't know about Canada, but in U.S. they cannot void your warranty for installing one of these. It is a dealer or mfg. ploy to squash the technology. there is a discussion about it on the Water4gas faq. they even quote the law & where to find. Might help you check it out in Canada. Antiquer

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Jetijs,



Thank you. I still prefer your design (series parallel design) which has many advantage compared to mine. Now I just need to ensure that I can get better fuel consumption with my current electrolyser which produces more 2LPM. Once I get better results then I move on to make even better cell.

Hi Kumaran. That new cell does look good. If you ever build another one I saw one like it on H2earth. It was a cell by Yull Brown. It had 20 plates wired in series,but he mounted his plates in slots cut into an insulation type material( I think a piece of vinyl or abs would do the trick.) instead of drilling holes thru the plates & using bolts. Looks like a lot less work. Antiquer

[rangerbentman]

did/done

Don't know about Canada, Antiquer

I quoted the American law as stated and was replied with the " if you do anything you void the warranty " letter as a reply. I think it was someone reading from a book rather than someone who actually knows anything about the idea that the consumer is actually concerned for the environment. And yes Subaru is a trendsetter when it comes to clean technology as their manufacturing facilities is zero waste, however they seem to have missed the point of clean when it comes to fuel enhancement. Or it could be the government that dictates how much tax they must have .
This a really good site that I thoroughly enjoy. Hopefully in the near future I can build my own and see if my Subie gets better mileage.

[Lemontree]

hho power draw from wehicle

Hallo!
your thughts and corrections are welcome, there are only rough calculation:
- the HHO generator consumes ~300W of electrical power. that means, from wehicle are taken twice more, as motive power - let's say about 700W of wehicles mechanical power is used for HHO generation.

- if normal wehicle (with 2Liters engine, maximum power rated about 90kW), works with 15-20kW of its power (in everyday's conditions), that means, ~4,5% of total power eats up the hho generator? that means, total fuel consumption must rise by 4,5% ?

- this engine running on 2500 rpm eats up ~<200 liters in minute of gasoline+air. HHO gas are just >0,5% of total air+gasoline+hho volume.

are these calculations true? an if so, than how so small amount of hho can make that huge diference in mileage (as claimed - till 50%) ?

(i am not hho skeptic, i have almoust made my fourth hho gen, just never have tested it in car (but things are in process, couple days ago i installed a velo speedometer in my vw passat, to measure correct fuel consumption ))

[Redmeanie]

Hallo!
your thughts and corrections are welcome, there are only rough calculation:
- the HHO generator consumes ~300W of electrical power. that means, from wehicle are taken twice more, as motive power - let's say about 700W of wehicles mechanical power is used for HHO generation.

- if normal wehicle (with 2Liters engine, maximum power rated about 90kW), works with 15-20kW of its power (in everyday's conditions), that means, ~4,5% of total power eats up the hho generator? that means, total fuel consumption must rise by 4,5% ?

- this engine running on 2500 rpm eats up ~<200 liters in minute of gasoline+air. HHO gas are just >0,5% of total air+gasoline+hho volume.

are these calculations true? an if so, than how so small amount of hho can make that huge diference in mileage (as claimed - till 50%) ?

(i am not hho skeptic, i have almoust made my fourth hho gen, just never have tested it in car (but things are in process, couple days ago i installed a velo speedometer in my vw passat, to measure correct fuel consumption ))

Here goes some data straight from an alternator manufacturer.....

What horsepower load will I put on my engine with a new alternator?

Typically, when an alternator is working at full output, it will require approximately one horsepower for every 25 amps it produces. As such, a 100-amp high-output alternator will demand up to four horsepower to operate.

Alternators <<<<This is the web address, Pretty good info on alternators and how they REALLY Work Too....

So if my Booster pulls less than 1 HP No big deal. It increases overall HP anyway because of a more Complete Burn of the Fossil Fuels....

Just my input....

[kumaran]

Updates

Kumaran,

I know about your project.....I was the one telling you how to adjust your fuel.... Did you ever get that situated?

Opps... sorry about that.

There has to be something else wrong if you are not seeing some decent results with that much gas....

I believe its because of no proper tuning on air fuel ratio that gives poor result on my side. I'm using three alternative methods; cold fuel vapor (before carburetor), water mist injection (before carburetor) and hydroxy injection (vacuum port). On last test run (13/04/2008), engine runs with fuel mixture ratio set by automechanic with alternative fuel able to cut down fuel consumption to 5.18% which far more less than my target.

Hydroxy generator started with 10A and during end of test run the cell was pulling about 20A. So hydroxy generation was between 0.9LPM to 1.8LPM. I have changed water mist nozzle to much smaller injector hole (super fine mist). Hot air from engine goes into cold fuel bubbler to push the vaporized fuel on top of carburetor. With all there methods, I'm still not getting better results. These methods does make difference in fuel consumption but just not impressive at this moment.

Yesterday, I was inserting cold fuel vapor into my motorbike (100cc). This test was done previously about few months ago where the engine rpm goes up when more fuel vapor goes into air intake. I use fish tank oxygen pump to push air into fuel bubbler. Vaporised gas then directed into air intake before carburetor. Adjustable flow valve place between air intake and fuel bubbler to control amount of vaporized gas goes into engine. Too much of fuel vapor goes into engine will cause the engine rpm decrease and possibily stops.

Suprisingly, I didn't noticed the rpm increase on motorbike engine when inserting with cold fuel vapor. Just a little bit of fuel vapor goes in, engine starts to stumble and stops. I was looking for errors in my setup but everything looks normal. If everything looks ok, why can't produce the previous results? Trace back the history, I got the answer. Four months ago, motorbike mechanic did engine overhaul so he changed piston and other components. I think he has set the fuel ratio higher (rich). Probably, this may be the cause for the engine stops because too much of fuel goes into engine but less oxygen to burn.

Maybe today or tomorrow, I'll try to lean of the fuel mixture and see if this could make any difference with fuel vapor injection. If goes well than I know how to set rich or lean mixure for my car.

[ANTIQUER]

Opps... sorry about that.



I believe its because of no proper tuning on air fuel ratio that gives poor result on my side. I'm using three alternative methods; cold fuel vapor (before carburetor), water mist injection (before carburetor) and hydroxy injection (vacuum port). On last test run (13/04/2008), engine runs with fuel mixture ratio set by automechanic with alternative fuel able to cut down fuel consumption to 5.18% which far more less than my target.

Hydroxy generator started with 10A and during end of test run the cell was pulling about 20A. So hydroxy generation was between 0.9LPM to 1.8LPM. I have changed water mist nozzle to much smaller injector hole (super fine mist). Hot air from engine goes into cold fuel bubbler to push the vaporized fuel on top of carburetor. With all there methods, I'm still not getting better results. These methods does make difference in fuel consumption but just not impressive at this moment.

Yesterday, I was inserting cold fuel vapor into my motorbike (100cc). This test was done previously about few months ago where the engine rpm goes up when more fuel vapor goes into air intake. I use fish tank oxygen pump to push air into fuel bubbler. Vaporised gas then directed into air intake before carburetor. Adjustable flow valve place between air intake and fuel bubbler to control amount of vaporized gas goes into engine. Too much of fuel vapor goes into engine will cause the engine rpm decrease and possibily stops.

Suprisingly, I didn't noticed the rpm increase on motorbike engine when inserting with cold fuel vapor. Just a little bit of fuel vapor goes in, engine starts to stumble and stops. I was looking for errors in my setup but everything looks normal. If everything looks ok, why can't produce the previous results? Trace back the history, I got the answer. Four months ago, motorbike mechanic did engine overhaul so he changed piston and other components. I think he has set the fuel ratio higher (rich). Probably, this may be the cause for the engine stops because too much of fuel goes into engine but less oxygen to burn.

Maybe today or tomorrow, I'll try to lean of the fuel mixture and see if this could make any difference with fuel vapor injection. If goes well than I know how to set rich or lean mixure for my car.

Hi! Kumaran
Are you SURE you don't have an 02 sensor and/or an ecu somewhere? Apparently Honda started using them in 1980. With all you are doing you should certainly be getting more mpg. unless something in the car's systems is fighting you. Did you ever try injecting some HHO into the air filter? It might help us to help you if you could post a picture of your engine & HHO hookup. Is your cell getting hot after running a while? I think that will cause it to pull more amps; Redmeanie or Ash might could tell you for sure. Keep us posted & good luck.

[kumaran]

Hi! Kumaran
Are you SURE you don't have an 02 sensor and/or an ecu somewhere? Apparently Honda started using them in 1980. With all you are doing you should certainly be getting more mpg. unless something in the car's systems is fighting you. Did you ever try injecting some HHO into the air filter? It might help us to help you if you could post a picture of your engine & HHO hookup. Is your cell getting hot after running a while? I think that will cause it to pull more amps; Redmeanie or Ash might could tell you for sure. Keep us posted & good luck.

Carburetor cars don't have O2 sensors or ECU anywhere hidden under hood. I'm quite certain that my tuning is just not right at this moment. Yes, with all the methods I'm using I should get better results. Hopefully, I could learn some tricks from my motorbike today or tommorow and later apply the same method to set air fuel ratio.

I did test my previous test car and manage to get 20% to 30% fuel savings with just fuel vapor alone. Now with all three methods I'm getting unsatifatory results. Hmmm...

[Tarkus]

Carburated W/O2 sensor

1986 Toyota pick up,
Carburated W/ an O2 sensor and ECU

You might want to double check before you start with timing.
Check manual in emissions section.

[Redmeanie]

Kumaran

I got a little more input for you.

1) Do away with the Cold Fuel Vaprorizer along with HHO. Trust me been there done that. Actually Heating the Fuel actually compliments the HHO combustion. Dont know why but it does. Someone told me to do that along time ago so I built a small unit that Ties into the Heater Water Supply Lines. I will post something about it if you want, but basically its just copper pipe bits and pieces.
Or you can do what Im working on now and run a Copper Tubing Coil through your cell and run your fuel through it.
This serves two purposes, It Cools your Electrolyte down while it slightly heats your fuel! Its like killing two birds with one stone. Help Amperage stay low and preheat your fuel all in one device.

2) I have never ran a water vapor system on anything but Turbo Vehicles for obvious reasons. Im not sure if it will help with HHO. It seems to me it may prevent the HHO igniting like it should. You shouldn't need it anyway because the HHO is going to keep your engine cool anyway. Plus when the HHO ignites it forms back into H20. So it seems to me you might be flooding it or at least putting enough water in the reaction that it weakens it. So try just the HHO and see what you got! Does that make sense?

[ANTIQUER]

Kumaran

I got a little more input for you.

1) Do away with the Cold Fuel Vaprorizer along with HHO. Trust me been there done that. Actually Heating the Fuel actually compliments the HHO combustion. Dont know why but it does. Someone told me to do that along time ago so I built a small unit that Ties into the Heater Water Supply Lines. I will post something about it if you want, but basically its just copper pipe bits and pieces.
Or you can do what Im working on now and run a Copper Tubing Coil through your cell and run your fuel through it.
This serves two purposes, It Cools your Electrolyte down while it slightly heats your fuel! Its like killing two birds with one stone. Help Amperage stay low and preheat your fuel all in one device.

2) I have never ran a water vapor system on anything but Turbo Vehicles for obvious reasons. Im not sure if it will help with HHO. It seems to me it may prevent the HHO igniting like it should. You shouldn't need it anyway because the HHO is going to keep your engine cool anyway. Plus when the HHO ignites it forms back into H20. So it seems to me you might be flooding it or at least putting enough water in the reaction that it weakens it. So try just the HHO and see what you got! Does that make sense?

RedMeanie,
Your input makes perfect sense; I got to thinking the same thing after my last posting. I think the same thing is killing the motor bike. It shows up more because the engine is much smaller & floods easier.

[kumaran]

Hi Redmeanie,

Thank you very much for the info. I really appreciate it.

Do away with the Cold Fuel Vaprorizer along with HHO. Trust me been there done that. Actually Heating the Fuel actually compliments the HHO combustion. Dont know why but it does.

Hmmm... First time I'm hearing this. I keep this info as reference and publish the test result once I have conducted test with HHO and fuel vapor together later.

Someone told me to do that along time ago so I built a small unit that Ties into the Heater Water Supply Lines. I will post something about it if you want, but basically its just copper pipe bits and pieces.
Or you can do what Im working on now and run a Copper Tubing Coil through your cell and run your fuel through it.
This serves two purposes, It Cools your Electrolyte down while it slightly heats your fuel! Its like killing two birds with one stone. Help Amperage stay low and preheat your fuel all in one device.

I did this test previously but my setup didn't turn out good on motorbike so I drop the fuel heater idea on car. I roll about 20 turns of copper tubing onto motorbike exhaust. Cold fuel enters into copper tubing, gets heated then moves into carburetor. Well, the tubing gets very hot and creates pressure which force the carburetor to overflow.

Later I modified the setup by use the same copper tubing rolled on exhaust but heat fuel from dedicated metal fuel container. Hot fuel flows into carburetor. This solves the pressure build up problem but creates a new problem. Carbuteror fuel auto stop valve damaged by hot fuel. Still never give up, again use the same setup but hot fuel vapor directed into air intake. Engine revs very high and fuel vaporised quickly so I put the fuel heater project on hold.

Redmeanie, your method of heating fuel with HHO generator is a very good idea. Some people rolls the copper tubing onto radiator hose which serves the same purpose.

As for updates, yesterday I did test on inserting fuel vapor into vacuum port on Honda Accord. I use vacuum port to pull vaporised fuel instead of pumping before carburetor. When I open variable valve to allow fuel vapor pulled into vacuum port, I noticed very slight increase in engine rpm and if too much the engine rpm decrease and stops. Then I fully closed the variable valve, turn fuel knob clock wise to lean fuel a little bit and again adjust fuel vapor variable valve. I notice much higher rpm compared to before. I still haven't confirm if I can use this method to determine if the fuel mixture ratio for carburetored car.

I came across water injection theory a while back and after put some thinking on it, I find the theory should work. Personally, I do notice better engine perfomance during raining and also after rain. This is because fine water mist enters into air intake which helps engine to perform better.

1. Water doens't burn but when heated, water turns to steam. Steam power is six times more power full than gasoline (I read somewhere in internet).
2. When water added together with gasoline into combustion chamber, this prolongs the fuel burning process (like adding octane to fuel).
3. Steam cleans out carbons in exhaust on long usage.
4. Cools out engine temperature.

The above points do make sense to me. That is why I wanted to test on water injection. Many people in my country uses air conditioner waste water to insert into engine. They said they really can feel much horsepower compared to before. Again I can't verify the results at this moment because I'm not going for higher power engine but fuel saving.