Water Sparkplug

[Aaron]

spark mechanism

Hi Boguslaw,

Now you're talking!

You mentioned super short connections...YES! The coil ideally would be screwed to the top of the spark plug with the HV diode connected directly to that connection and the rest of the connection with large size copper wire making straight lines and 90 degree angles and no curves.

You said: "As I said there is NO energy left in cap after HV discharge! That energy what is used at LV arc is already stored somewhere else ... in coil"

The coils do store the potential, however, this would have to be proven. There are some easy tests to do to see what is coming from the coil besides what is leaving the HV output.

What S1R is doing is different. With this particular circuit we are looking at may be enhanced by adding power through an inverter, variac, etc... but that is a totally separate issue.

The point being, the cap all by itself as the only input does give the effect.

It may be a good idea for anyone to note that while there is HV leaving the secondary, the HV will force the HV diode to remain CLOSED AT ALL TIMES until there is no more HV on that side of the diode. That means while the diode is CLOSED, there is nothing moving through it from the LV side.

Is the effect from power stored in the coil? More probable than LV going through diode from the cap for obvious reasons. However, the power would be there anyway with or without the HV diode and the effect only happens with the diode.

[Aaron]

Jetijs, your message

Jetijs, I googed your message below and almost deleted it by accident!

I recovered it so at the bottom, it says last edited by Aaron. Not sure what I did! Anyway, the msg didn't change. It is for the msg on 325am.

[Aaron]

straight vs curved

But if we take the spark gap and bring it near the power circuit so that it is still attached to the circuit through the extension cord but it is bent in the middle, then the spark is much more powerful. As if there is a big resistance in the extension cord when it is straight, but less resistance if there are some bends and turns in it.

This is interesting.

Is it that there is less resistance in the cord or is there some energy transfer directly from the coil to the spark independent of the cord?

The straight cord vs curved cord is interesting. Normally, the impulses like to travel over straight lines and not curved lines.

[Jetijs]

That is exactly what I thought, that is why I noticed it. When the cord was curved (one curve only) I could use much wider spark gap, but when I straightened out the cord, I could not get a spark across the spark gap until I bent both electrodes closer together. Anyway, in both setups the spark was less intense than without any extension cords at all. It just seems that a curve in the cord makes less resistance. Will test this out some more

[Aaron]

misc

Thanks Luc for posting that video!
I'll look at deleting the old schematics.



Redmeanie, the old 12A rotary's should be a dime a dozen in junkyards. Probably the apex seals will probably be worn down but anyway, should be avail. Good idea on the rotary!

[Aaron]

new water sparkplug thread

Hi Everyone,

Here is a new thread I just started for specific focus on practical application of this spark method on an engine...Redmeanie and Jetijs, feel free to kick off the experiments there:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...plication.html
That thread would be great for discussing timing issues, methods of injecting water vapor, etc... Ideal engines to use this on, etc...

I would love to see this thread continue on enhancements on circuit modifications, developing ideas of what the spark is, how it is caused, etc...

[Aaron]

spark plug schematic

Here is the exact circuit I've used from the beginning. I got the relay/555 idea from Peter. The 40w bulb works perfect to limit current and my 5A/150v variac can be cranked to the max without blowing a fuse or anything else.

Cap is 100% isolated from power supply when the relay contacts move from NC to NO.

It does not matter if the input of the diode is connected directly to the ignition coil input + or the + on the cap. So throwing a switch and have it already connected or after a switch makes no difference...at this level.

[Aaron]

Patent 6553981

Posted at overunity.com
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat6553981.pdf
If that links doesn't work, goto:
PAT2PDF - Free PDF copies of patents: Download and print!
and enter patent # 6553981

[Aaron]

p.s. snubber caps may be helpful

p.s. you can put snubber caps across common and normally open to suppress contact point arcing when discharging cap.

[InTheField]

Sorry if this has already been asked/suggested, but...

Since the circuit is going from 12VDC through the inverter to 120VAC through the diodes (basically a high-power bridge rectifier) which turns it to 120VDC, then why can't you just use a 10:1 transformer for that part of the circuit and get rid of the inverter and most (if not all) of the diodes/rectifier? Just wondering out loud and trying to make sense of the circuit...

[Redmeanie]

Clarified...

Here is a simple, breakdown of what is happening with the coil....

National High Magnetic Field Laboratory - Ignition Coil Tutorial

[boguslaw]

That is exactly what I thought, that is why I noticed it. When the cord was curved (one curve only) I could use much wider spark gap, but when I straightened out the cord, I could not get a spark across the spark gap until I bent both electrodes closer together. Anyway, in both setups the spark was less intense than without any extension cords at all. It just seems that a curve in the cord makes less resistance. Will test this out some more

Well,high frequency current is travelling quite differently then normal low frequency....

[Aaron]

How the Water Sparkplug Circuit Works Part 1

I wrote this up yesterday as 1 of several parts to give a step by step walk through on what is happening. With the HV diode everything changes. Also, for fun on a non-related topic, check out my new youtube vid:
YouTube - Earth Battery | Bedini SG | Radiant Energy
This is possible by knowing what the potentials are doing in a circuit and how they interact with each other. That applies to this plug circuit in a subtle way. I posted this in the Earth Battery SG thread here.

[boguslaw]

I've read this patent http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat6553981.pdf

There is one important difference in schematics used. Diodes are placed in such way which divide circuit into parts and disallow discharging capacitor into car coil. Basically it looks like two not connected circuits - low voltage trigger for car coil and discharge cap circuit to the plug directly.

A big difference. This is like Aaron circuit B with additional diode put just after the car coil whic BLOCKS capacitor placed on right circuit to discharge to the coil...

[boguslaw]

Aaron,your current schematic is better imho, more closer that what I mentioned.

Yes, now potential is equalized (like a pressure of the water in connected containers) but there is no oscillations yet due to current not flowing (water is not moving after initial equalization so oscillations are diminished soon).

I see no big difference if you close or left open S2 switch.
I will explain why:
when S2 is open and some time is left , voltage is equalized ,right
if you would be able to close both switches at the same moment that a current would flow mostly throught that short path of lower resistance - throught S1 and S2 (diode has bigger resistance) and oscillations would be limited - generated spark would be rather small however still bigger then without a diode connected to HV output of the coil.

This will never happen because no one is able to close two switches at the same moment.

Yet I still expect a little bigger plasma spark when S2 is closed and ground is shared allowing to saturate coil and maintain oscillations between cap and coil before discharge occur throught primary of coil (by closing S1)

The beter check/experiment would be to place S3 switch just before diode.

If you charge cap while holding S1,S2,S3 opened and close S2 and S3 to allow current from cap to saturate coil, then again immediately open S2 and S3 you would move energy between cap and coil and equalize but still allowing oscillations.

This way you can measure what energy is stored in car coil and what is left in cap for HV discharge.