Water Sparkplug

[demios]

First, I want to congratulate all of you for putting so much effort into this problem, and finally solving the first stage - replication of Krupa's PLASMA effect, replication of the plugs, steam injection with leaned out mixture, simplification of the circuit and even printed layouts for the system. You've come a long long way since the thread started. I want to especially thank the Panacea for enormous effort put into production of their PDF files and free information distribution. Thank you all so very much!

@Robert E.

I really like your new simplified design! Are you going to try them on the PLASMA circuit soon?

@Xack & Gotoluc

Great idea guys, that would give us a lot of space for spark + easy manufacturing!

@alsy

Thank you for great link and the chart. It's clear now why Be-Cu replicas were eaten away so quickly...Maybe we should go for Fe-Cr-Pt (70%-25%-5%)? We can melt pretty much anything with HHO gas, can't we , in case there's no readily available alloy we need.

Now, I have 2 small questions regarding Voltage Multipliers, as seen here:

http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/03286.png (taken from All About Circuits : Free Electric Circuits Textbooks)

The question No.1 is: do I need AC or DC capacitors to make a Voltage Multiplier circuit (doubler, quadrupler,...)?

Question No.2 is: are these capacitors in parallel or in series? Because I need to calculate the energy they can store (in Joules), and I'm not sure if they're in series or parallel.

I actually want to take only one AC phase (wire) from my alternator (if it's possible, if not I'll make an inverter per plans posted here) and send it to step-up transformer (1:28 ratio) to magnify the voltage from 14.5VAC (max voltage @4000 rpm) to 400VAC. Then, send it through a voltage quadrupler and raise it to 1600 VDC, and then send it through resistor to the dump cap (1600V 220nF - 281.6mJ & 352uC).

It's not 1 Joule of energy yet, but I'd like to see the effects with this 281mJ+50mJ of stock ignition, for starters, on the standard resistorless plug - NGK BCP6ES.

Thanks in advance !!!

[Xack]

Modified arc on V2

This is what I had in mind.

[Shane Jackson]

I was thinking (oh no you better watch out)..... I wonder if we should have the tips of the plugs platinum plated (or iridium plated) to make them hold up better to the plasma spark.....

[Shane Jackson]

I was thinking (oh no you better watch out)..... I wonder if we should have the tips of the plugs platinum plated (or iridium plated) to make them hold up better to the plasma spark.....

Actually Rhodium plating may be the way to go. It has a melting point of 3567F and a boiling point of 6683F Much higher than platinum and iridium.......

Most local jewelry repair shops have the equipment to do it as well (and should be real cheap)

I am going to go have my NKG's plated later this week.

[gotoluc]

Actually Rhodium plating may be the way to go. It has a melting point of 3567F and a boiling point of 6683F Much higher than platinum and iridium.......

Most local jewelry repair shops have the equipment to do it as well (and should be real cheap)

I am going to go have my NKG's plated later this week.

Hi Shane Jackson,

great idea ...Please do keep us up to date on the plating process as far as availability of Rhodium and the cost to get the work done.

Thanks for sharing.

Luc

[aljhoa]

This is what I had in mind.

The technology being rediscovered is Plasma Pulse Detonation Engine with an application to an automobile. This technology is based on thunder and lightning natural phenomena where nitrogen, water vapor and charge play a big role.
During lightning phenomena first the laterals are established and then tremendous discharge creates plasma that we see. The tone of thunder i.e. impact load is a function of relative humidity.
The disc electrode, post #2467, will be subjected to uneven pulse loads which in time will fatigue the normal sparkplug center electrode. This configuration requires a lot of development. The loose disc in the cylinder is not desirable.
The post #2477, variation of the O-ring ground electrode (post# 2464 that can be made from wire or flat washers for experimentation), will require elliptical concave surface or longer ground electrode for large radius (to avoid sharp edges). Long ground electrode may interfere with a piston of some engines.
Al

[aljhoa]

Hi Robert E.,

Great and simple design ... I like it and would like to make a proposal by using most of what you have but adding what user Xack mentioned below about concave and convex. See attached.



I made a quick drawing in paint but I think everyone will get to understand... keep in mind that this is the whole perimeter around the spark plug.

I think the surface area using this design will be much greater than the Firestorm and we could produce these since as of today they are OPEN SOURCE

Let me know what you all think of this design.

Thanks Robert E. and Xack for the ideas.

Luc

Convex or concave surface, balls for both (+) and (-) electrodes, what maters are no sharp corners, see Tesla coil discharges experiments.
For fun see:
/dev/null/kevin: Tesla Coil Lightning Car Protection
Al

[Xack]

Donut Ground Ring and a Ball

The technology being rediscovered is Plasma Pulse Detonation Engine with an application to an automobile. This technology is based on thunder and lightning natural phenomena where nitrogen, water vapor and charge play a big role.
During lightning phenomena first the laterals are established and then tremendous discharge creates plasma that we see. The tone of thunder i.e. impact load is a function of relative humidity.
The disc electrode, post #2467, will be subjected to uneven pulse loads which in time will fatigue the normal sparkplug center electrode. This configuration requires a lot of development. The loose disc in the cylinder is not desirable.
The post #2477, variation of the O-ring ground electrode (post# 2464 that can be made from wire or flat washers for experimentation), will require elliptical concave surface or longer ground electrode for large radius (to avoid sharp edges). Long ground electrode may interfere with a piston of some engines.
Al

aljhoa, Thank you for your response. The information and your comment sheds a bit of light on the subject. If I understand correctly a ball in the center electrode and a ring (which should be much like a donut) will serve the best. Even if it's only ROUNDED on the inside. A concave disc will have a sharp edge at the top and also where it will be welded to the base of the spark plug. This would not be good. So, the initial design V2 would be the best.

Thanks,
Xack

[ashtweth]

Guys this is very important work, take a well deserved bow, its always a personal honor for me to support your work and work together, there is no other feeling in the world like it, dont let any body tell you any different, just talking with Phil Ratte' who worked with Kupra.


------------------------------------
Hello Ash

I have known Robert Krupa for four years. I am a retired Professional
Engineer (BME U of MN 1961).
-
If you would like to know what has happened to the Firestorm Spark Plug,
please phone me at:
-
If you read the other email, I just sent the watercar group, you will
find that I have considerable experience in testing the fuel consumption
and pollution characteristics of automobiles.
-
I have been prooccupied with other things, mainly the election, so I
haven't done much testing lately.I am new to the watercar group and I would like know more about what you are doing in testing. I will help in any way I can. I am a retired Professional Engineer BME U of MN 1961. I am also a member of Theta Tau, the first and largest engineering fraternity.
-VIBRANT HEALTH NOW!
-------------------------------------------

Gonna put him in contact with Robin/Luc/rosco/Greg et all.
we still got one of Robins plugs to show at greenfest.com.au
mainstream TV and press, its about time they know how hard and how important open source engineers are

KEEP GOING

[demios]

aljhoa, Thank you for your response. The information and your comment sheds a bit of light on the subject. If I understand correctly a ball in the center electrode and a ring (which should be much like a donut) will serve the best. Even if it's only ROUNDED on the inside. A concave disc will have a sharp edge at the top and also where it will be welded to the base of the spark plug. This would not be good. So, the initial design V2 would be the best.

Thanks,
Xack

I tried to make your idea as realistic as i could. I think that something in that direction should yield the best results.

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: donutballplugtype.jpg

I made the donut (ring) redish on purpose, to be distinctively recognized.
I have some more designs on my mind right now, but no time. I'll post soon what I draw.

[aljhoa]

I tried to make your idea as realistic as i could. I think that something in that direction should yield the best results.

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: donutballplugtype.jpg

I made the donut (ring) redish on purpose, to be distinctively recognized.
I have some more designs on my mind right now, but no time. I'll post soon what I draw.

The lighting is a two-step process; first the invisible laterals connect a cloud with the ground and then the visible plasma forms from the ground to a cloud following the laterals’ path. The thunder created by a lightning following wire from a rocket has a higher pitch sound than a cloud thunder.
The attached configurations should work if the initial spark can only jump a distance of R=2D and if high-current charge follows the path of initial spark.
The square ring ground electrode post#2485 should work but it needs a lot of development, once a high current creates a pit in one spot a ring will slowly erode or fall-of if the leg starts disintegrating first.
Although nitrogen is always present in a spark plug cavity between ceramic and steel materials probably balls electrodes vent it better.
Until all configurations are evaluated the question is what is easier to make at home and use safely in an engine.

[aljhoa]

Steam vs. Cloud/Relative Humidity

20 gallons of gasoline burning in the air at air/fuel ratio of 14.7 (mass basis) will produce about 20 gallons of water.
In the gasoline engine fuel “explodes” before top dead center, why the piston is moving up?
What is pushing piston down after top dead center?
Is gasoline engine a form of steam engine?
Al

[gmeast]

does not explode

20 gallons of gasoline burning in the air at air/fuel ratio of 14.7 (mass basis) will produce about 20 gallons of water.
In the gasoline engine fuel “explodes” before top dead center, why the piston is moving up?
What is pushing piston down after top dead center?
Is gasoline engine a form of steam engine?
Al

Hi aljhoa,

A fuel/air mixture does not explode. Rather it is a rapid burning. The burning has a flame front propagating away from the point of ignition. Depending upon the octane rating of the fuel, the speed of the flame front and rate of pressure rise will vary. So in order to develop your maximum pressure from ignition at TDC you need to start the burning process a little early and exactly "how" early depends upon your engine RPM ... that's what ignition timing advance is all about.

Peace,

Greg

[aljhoa]

Steam vs. Cloud/Relative Humidity

Hi aljhoa,

A fuel/air mixture does not explode. Rather it is a rapid burning. The burning has a flame front propagating away from the point of ignition. Depending upon the octane rating of the fuel, the speed of the flame front and rate of pressure rise will vary. So in order to develop your maximum pressure from ignition at TDC you need to start the burning process a little early and exactly "how" early depends upon your engine RPM ... that's what ignition timing advance is all about.

Peace,

Greg

Hi Greg
“So in order to develop your maximum pressure…… and exactly "how" early depends upon your engine RPM” and other variables (temp. altitude, load….).
Ok, if that pressure is 1500 psi at full throttle and max load, which one of the combustion byproducts is mostly responsible for that maximum pressure?
Al

[gmeast]

temperature

Hi Greg
“So in order to develop your maximum pressure…… and exactly "how" early depends upon your engine RPM” and other variables (temp. altitude, load….).
Ok, if that pressure is 1500 psi at full throttle and max load, which one of the combustion byproducts is mostly responsible for that maximum pressure?
Al

Hi again,

...the air that got heated as a result of combustion of the fuel. The air itself (mostly nitrogen) changes temperature from ambient to 3500 deg F + ... 4500 deg F in diesel (center of volume) . That temperature rise translates into a pressure rise. The amount of water as a combustion by-product and any steam it produces is very small compared to the volume of air that has gone from low temperature to high temperature and low pressure to high pressure. The humidity in the air plays a much bigger role than combustion by-products. What exactly do you mean by the term "by-products" anyway?

Greg