Water Sparkplug

[xbox hacker]

Your the man Luc.... That is the vid i was looking for

[gotoluc]

Update on my 1988 Dodge Raider with weber Carb with no electronic controls. I am running kiker wires and ball sparkplugs and two sizes jet smaller in carb. This is with stock ignition with a msd coil. Fuel burn went from 15 to 23 mpg. Kiker wires didn't help any over the regular wires. I then changed my timing to tdc but when I tried to drive the car I had such a reduction in power that I changed it right back. I then put in my hydroxy generator putting out 1 lpm Hydroxy and checked the mileage and got no change, still 23 mpg??? I couldn't believe it. I guess I need to put in water mist or steam next. I know in my heart that water will work as fuel with the right fog, mist, steam whatever and the right ignition and timing or lightning bolt. I just haven't found it yet. God knows and when the time is right maybe he will give us this knowledge. Keep on working guys Keep on keeping on Bob E.

Thanks for the update Bob.

From Greg's positive results I think steam is what you want to use.

Let us know how it works out for you.

Luc

[TRON]

use a gas processor first then the water spark plug!

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...r-circuit.html

[gotoluc]

use a gas processor first then the water spark plug!
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...r-circuit.html

Hi TRON,

thanks for posting your interesting comment and link

Can you provide us with a link to a video demonstration of the circuit you are suggesting?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[gmeast]

Firestorm

Hi Luc and all,

I believe this post still belongs here. The effect is still plasma I think but only observable under pressure.

I have made an important change to the air filter ... a new one ... yeah. Why it took so long to do this I don't know. Now there is no labyrinth for the steam that might induce condensation. Now it's just straight in. It's still legal ... see the breather in to the other side?

The VexUs plasma circuit is completely removed. I am running my Nickel Firestorm Spark Plug replicas by Robin David ...ONLY. At present I still only have my single metered water drip onto a 3 inch long segment of the exhaust manifold (before the muffler).

I have a set of pictures for you:
-first picture is overall of the new filter and old duct


-second picture is of the steam rising from convection & just plain wafting up the duct and condensing on the mirror. NOTE: ... the weather was dry and warm at the time of the picture


-third picture is of one of the nickel Firestorm plugs


-fourth picture is of a nickel Firestorm plug firing at atmospheric pressure ... enemic


-fifth picture is of the same nickel Firestorm plug firing under 125 psi pressure ... WOW ... a plasma spark!

[rosco1]

Good stuff Greg!

Overpowering these types of plugs really only wastes them and they're too precious to waste by being overzealous.

Let the compression ratio do the work of morphing the lesser powered spark into the plasma.

I'm not sure what compression ratio that bug of yours is running on, but you only need to be making enough ignition power to allow the morph into plasma at about 10-20 psi below what your actual highest running compression ratio is.

We simply don't need to be able to create plasma in open air firings, there's no real point in being able to do so.

By adopting this low powered approach, the power levels at the plug can be kept to a minimum, thus keeping them alive longer, besides that, we're verily tapping free power by doing it this way as the piston is going up and down anyway, and this approach doesn't add to it's burdon at all.

[gmeast]

lower power plasma

Overpowering these types of plugs really only wastes them and they're too precious to waste by being overzealous.

Let the compression ratio do the work of morphing the lesser powered spark into the plasma.

I'm not sure what compression ratio that bug of yours is running on, but you only need to be making enough ignition power to allow the morph into plasma at about 10-20 psi below what your actual highest running compression ratio is.

We simply don't need to be able to create plasma in open air firings, there's no real point in being able to do so.

By adopting this low powered approach, the power levels at the plug can be kept to a minimum, thus keeping them alive longer, besides that, we're verily tapping free power by doing it this way as the piston is going up and down anyway, and this approach doesn't add to it's burdon at all.

Hi rosco1,

Thanks. Yeah, when I added these plugs, also the beryllium-copper versions, I noticed only the slightest difference between plasma circuit "on" and plasma circuit "off" at cold run/idle. It was no contest between either of these and the regular non resistor plugs ... the engine would not even idle on standard non resistor plugs without the VexUs circuit.

The Bug's CR is only around 7 1/2 or 8. It is interesting to note that in my case, having a normally aspirated carburetor, the addition of the steam acts as an inert gas and displaces some of the total intake volume. Unfortunately for me this enriches the fuel to air ratio (fuel to oxygen ratio) so I must jet about 1/2 down just to get the ratio closer to stock. However, someone from one of these forums pointed out that systems with fuel injection and a computer would sense the oxygen level and make the appropriate adjustment automatically ... I like that.

The reason I'm adding steam is not really to try and burn water (actually). I'm trying to 'shift' the thermo cycle of the ICE and achieve a transfer of combustion heat to the steam (which is dense and already phase changed) and develop the driving pressures at lower temperatures. I have no doubt that the plasma/water effect is important for ignition at these conditions. If successful this should result in lower operating temperatures and less heat rejected to the environment - more power to the wheels. This is where I went from 31.5 (factory figures) MPG to 36.5 MPG and now to 40.5 MPG. I actually never got any more than 25 MPG from the bug before all of this ... and I kept it as well tune as anyone could.

Sorry for the long-winded reply,

Greg

[rosco1]

Heat transfer

Yes Greg, I'm well aware of the lower combustion chamber temperatures apparent with the faster burn rates delivered by these ignition upgrades, in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing in comparison to using the Brisk Premium LGS HOR15LGS plug.

Those tests alluded to a temp drop of 150-200 degrees just by using a standard HEI ignition, standard leads and the Brisks. Economy and power increase was significant, emissions dropped markedly as well, but alas we choose to press forward don't we.

I'm currently running that same set up in a different engine now, yet with the inclusion of the Kiker Wires, which again significantly increased performance and again lowered emissions some more, yet I can't really attest to them having increased the economy though as by virtue of having all this extra grunt underfoot, it does tend to encourage one to drive rather more aggressively, thus negating the probable increase.

I think you already know the specifications of the plugs currently being constructed for me.

My intention is to further augment the combustion process initially with water and methanol, delivered by an Edelbrock Vara Jection unit.

I'm also thinking of somehow restricting the water flow to the cylinder head by way of a modified head gasket, in order to get the temperatures back up to where they usually ran with a standard ignition system. I feel these lower temperatures are an area that needs to be examined and perhaps exploited for they may yield something more.

I may initially opt for a higher temperature thermostat to tide me over until I make a decision either way. I do note that the engine is about as smooth as one could possibly hope for, yet it seems to be audibly noisier when cold. (Rattles)

This weekend will see the inclusion of the long awaited new headers, as well as a Holley pattern 2 bbl manifold, which has had the plenum area increased to about double it's standard volume, and atop that is a 34 ADM Weber.
Along with all that, the Crane Cams HI 6 and PS 91 coil will be added, along with the water/meth unit. The reason I'm going to these lengths is that I feel the engine is now undercarbed(single bbl) and being somewhat restricted in it's potential.

I'm certainly happy with what I've achieved so far, and ordinarily I wouldn't want to go changing anything, and while it's apparent that the combo currently in use is doing a great job, I just can't help but go forward. Some long held theories/ideas suggest to me that we're getting closer to making a breakthrough.

I feel one of us might nail it soon.

Regards,
Ross.

[ashtweth]

Plenty of room there for a GEET at the back on Gregs , thought that was a GEET pipe at first glance, imagine that with Robins plugs..

[gmeast]

timing

Yes Greg, I'm well aware of the lower combustion chamber temperatures apparent with the faster burn rates delivered by these ignition upgrades, in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing in comparison to using the Brisk Premium LGS HOR15LGS plug.

Those tests alluded to a temp drop of 150-200 degrees just by using a standard HEI ignition, standard leads and the Brisks. Economy and power increase was significant, emissions dropped markedly as well, but alas we choose to press forward don't we.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel one of us might nail it soon.

Regards,
Ross.

Hi rosco1,

I'm not sure I am familiar with plugs spec (being built). I have no way of monitoring emissions, though the Bug sure stinks less since I started this research. Can you/have you fiddled with the timing much and if so do you have any conclusions re that specifically?

As far as the Kiker? wires go the resonant quasi-multi pulses they claim to deliver should be a benefit. Maybe tweaking the timing with those wires could add some benefit (???)

"...in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing..."
Can you refer me to that /those post(s) pls?

... Pretty fundamental mods for the gains wouldn't you say? Exciting!

Thanks,

Greg

[gmeast]

rosco1 - one more question:

Hi rosco1,

I'm not sure I am familiar with plugs spec (being built). I have no way of monitoring emissions, though the Bug sure stinks less since I started this research. Can you/have you fiddled with the timing much and if so do you have any conclusions re that specifically?

As far as the Kiker? wires go the resonant quasi-multi pulses they claim to deliver should be a benefit. Maybe tweaking the timing with those wires could add some benefit (???)

"...in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing..."
Can you refer me to that /those post(s) pls?

... Pretty fundamental mods for the gains wouldn't you say? Exciting!

Thanks,

Greg

H rosco1,

I forgot to ask if you have had a chance to make any visual observations with your set-up/configuration under pressure.

Thanks,

Greg

[gmeast]

Geet

Plenty of room there for a GEET at the back on Gregs , thought that was a GEET pipe at first glance, imagine that with Robins plugs..

Hi Ash,

If things improve for me then maybe that will be pursued.

Greg

[rosco1]

Greg

Hi rosco1,

I'm not sure I am familiar with plugs spec (being built). I have no way of monitoring emissions, though the Bug sure stinks less since I started this research. Can you/have you fiddled with the timing much and if so do you have any conclusions re that specifically?

As far as the Kiker? wires go the resonant quasi-multi pulses they claim to deliver should be a benefit. Maybe tweaking the timing with those wires could add some benefit (???)

"...in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing..."
Can you refer me to that /those post(s) pls?

... Pretty fundamental mods for the gains wouldn't you say? Exciting!

Thanks,

Greg

Hi again Greg, my plugs are a 1 piece silver electrode complete with ball tip, thus by being 1 piece they should be more robust than a welded or threaded ball type electrode.

I purchased an exhaust gas analyser specifically for this purpose, along with other testing equipment, yet sadly my laser thermometer was stolen when my vehicle was burgled recently, so before I can record temps again, I have to buy another.

It appears that the window we normally recognise as being acceptable for a moderate state of tune has been widened considerably, and while I've only swung the distributor a couple of degrees further in advance of TDC so far, it displayed no signs of pinging as it would have done with the standard ignition set up. I've now gone back to the factory setting and will be leaving it there for the moment, simply due to my desire of seeing what happens when less advance, meaning a retarding situation further back toward TDC itself is selected. I'm currently fabricating a simple distributor swing method which will allow me to swing it on the fly.

I'm not seeing much change at all with a swing of 2 degrees, whereas before, it would have been immediately obvious that a setting change had been made.(pinging or sluggishness) I note that my vacuum has climbed from 21 to 24 now, which indicated a higher state of seal.

The Kikers display a weird "field", which gave me headaches on 1 lead only, which I feel may be directly related to where the ignition coil is located within the plug lead array, I'll look at this a bit closer as time allows, but know this, a non firing lead can miraculously come back to life if 1 coil/meander is removed, thus giving the impression that this "field" is tuneable to a degree, as such, it could be an area where we need to look further.

Link to plug temps, pay close attention to the figures in the tables.

Spark Plug Indexing - Holdenpaedia

Exciting indeed, especially as so many people argue that we're all off our heads, the performance increase is very difficult to ignore.

[rosco1]

Sort of

H rosco1,

I forgot to ask if you have had a chance to make any visual observations with your set-up/configuration under pressure.

Thanks,

Greg

My pressure chamber is still sitting there unused as I've been quite busy with other matters. I've now found my pressure blow off valve that was lost in storage for quite a while, yet have not fitted it.

I do plan to fire up the pressure tester again soon.

I have found evidence of rust on the Brisk plugs, on areas of the plug that are deep within the combustion chamber, and this is with the simple ignition system I'm running, so this has me thinking I'm closer to dissociating hydrogen at all times than I thought I was.

I'm not sure if that last observation is solid just yet, as when the engine is cold, the water emitted from the tail pipe is has increased remarkably.

The rust on the plugs could be related to something happening when cold.

Not sure yet.

I need to give it further thought.

[gmeast]

rust

My pressure chamber is still sitting there unused as I've been quite busy with other matters. I've now found my pressure blow off valve that was lost in storage for quite a while, yet have not fitted it. --------------------------------------------------------
The rust on the plugs could be related to something happening when cold.

Not sure yet.

I need to give it further thought.

Hi rosco1,

I am paranoid about the steam and water condensation so (even though it may not matter when already warm) I always shut off my water drip (steam) and let it run at idle & dry out for a minute. For this I had to set the idle mixture rich a little... main jet is lean ... don't what to burn valves on idle.

I haven't seen any rust yet ... but still cautious.

Thanks for responding,

Greg