Water Sparkplug

[smw1998a]

MC Replication

Thank Lee. It's useful information for me to make a microcontroller program. I complete my board now and will make a spark in next day

Your welcome
I look forward to seeing your results.

Regards Lee.

[gotoluc]

I continue to study, I think it is 8 different replications of the water plug to attempt to gain a conclusion/suggestion that might help.

Due to the brightness of these effects all bets are off.

I still conclude it is Hydrogen. The "brightness" is astounding.

The brightness is part of the effect in that this level of "lux" is high enough to not only be an indicator of the "effect" but is contributing to the effect.

Your workshop 50 lux
Big office 400 lux
Sunny day 32,000 Lux to 100,000 lux

Water plug spark....? lux Has to be more than 35,000?

This effect has high enough lux to have an effect of the H production and your eyes....(Eye protection.)

So we have SPEED
We have LIGHT
We have shock wave SOUND

Way to go guys.

Hi tstorey, thank you for looking at it this way. I see your study of the effect to be most important. May you succeed in your research.

Maybe we have found a new source of light. Actually, the name Luc is from Latin which means Light.

Luc

[Aaron]

spark

It definitely is fast, bright and loud.

I don't know how many frames per second my mini dv video recorder is but it takes MANY frames just to catch one of those ghosts, meaning it is super fast.

It requires sunglasses and I've used cotton balls as ear plugs and that isn't even enough. I'm going to use wet cotton balls next time or get the yellow ear plugs...or target practice ear protection...it is no exaggeration that these precautions are needed.

Even without spraying water on it, using 400v at 330uf is ridiculously loud and bright. With water is more ridiculous.

I wish I could show a pic of the high voltage discharge where the balls are bigger than golf balls because you'll see the orange really manifest at the circumference of the ball and leads the blast.

In that video, you can see the blasts growing in size as I go from about 100v to 400v (capacitor bank max). The largest those get is almost 2 inches in diameter.

Anyway, the answers are manifesting fast and at least the effect is easy to duplicate over and over so it is definitely not some anomalous fluke, thanksfully!

Luc, your name meaning light and the spark is one of the first things I noticed

Has anyone put this on engine to test motive push with not only water mist, but also with water gas (hho)? There is no doubt that works as it already has worked even with a normal spark plug but with this effect, it may require much less hho...that is my opinion.

[rickoff]

To Luc

Hi Luc,

You wrote, " Has anyone put this on engine to test motive push with not only water mist, but also with water gas (hho)? There is no doubt that works as it already has worked even with a normal spark plug but with this effect, it may require much less hho...that is my opinion."

I think that a lot of us here are leaning in the same direction. While even a normal spark is enough to immediately ignite Hydrogen, it does seem plausible that a plasma arc - used in combination with Hydrogen or HHO gas and the addition of water mist - may very well be what is required to get an implementation off and running. I agree that it will probably require no more, and perhaps less HHO, than we use for boosting a gasoline fueled engine. The chief reason for that being that we would alter (retard) timing to take better advantage of the Hydrogen explosion. When used with gasoline, and timing set before TDC, the Hydrogen explosion is working against the rising piston. The only benefit is that the Hydrogen aids in obtaining a more complete burn of the gasoline, thus increasing the power derived from the gasoline burn. With water mist and HHO, we can set timing after TDC and take full advantage of both the Hydrogen explosion and the plasma water spark effect.

Say, how are you coming with your acrylic engine build?

Best regards, Rick

[gotoluc]

Hi Rick,

it's always a pleasure to read your ideas and input. I would also agree with what you posted. Many testing left to do, we are not out of the woods yet.

Luc

[gotoluc]

@everyone,

please have a look at a new video that I just uploaded on youtube.

It is a test to replicate and observe the basic effect of the Robert Krupa Firestorm style spark plug.

I will write more about the tests a little later.

Luc

Video: YouTube - Krupa Firestorm style plasma Sparkplug test

[goldenequity]

Enhanced Spark circuit running Diesel fuel

Came across this one...
to me it shows how capable the enhanced spark idea is.... bcuz diesel does
not like to "vaporize" at all.... especially in a gasoline carburetor.
YouTube - Engine running on Plasma Ignition-1

[tstorey]

Hi Luc,

As I would address this test in "terms" of the water plug...I would love to see the "effect" using the same basic layout as the water plug so that any observations might be similar.

My interest is the effect the "effect" is having on your equipment. When we are "flying blind" useful pathways may be derived from what happens to "stuff" that is in proximity to the effect.

Your equipment went "nuts" the gas in the lamp was excited etc. The meter was giving a negative reading...(please be careful with the PC hard drive..this looks like magnetism)

Clearly the particles in the atmosphere of your shop were "reacting" to the electromagnetic field created when you hooked up the power.

I wonder if the particle charge was majority positive or majority negative? Did you create a dipole field?

I also ask if the effect "lingered" after you disconnected the power. Compasses are handy as they are "dumb" and would indicate an after effect. It would be interesting to see if the compass is "affected" 20 feet away 10 feet away etc.

What if the power was pulsed two to three times per second...this would produce "changes on changes" and perhaps, still further observable "stuff."

If the compass spins................

Thanks again,

T

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

As I would address this test in "terms" of the water plug...I would love to see the "effect" using the same basic layout as the water plug so that any observations might be similar.

My interest is the effect the "effect" is having on your equipment. When we are "flying blind" useful pathways may be derived from what happens to "stuff" that is in proximity to the effect.

Your equipment went "nuts" the gas in the lamp was excited etc. The meter was giving a negative reading...(please be careful with the PC hard drive..this looks like magnetism)

Clearly the particles in the atmosphere of your shop were "reacting" to the electromagnetic field created when you hooked up the power.

I wonder if the particle charge was majority positive or majority negative? Did you create a dipole field?

I also ask if the effect "lingered" after you disconnected the power. Compasses are handy as they are "dumb" and would indicate an after effect. It would be interesting to see if the compass is "affected" 20 feet away 10 feet away etc.

What if the power was pulsed two to three times per second...this would produce "changes on changes" and perhaps, still further observable "stuff."

If the compass spins................

Thanks again,

T

Hi tstorey, thank you for your interest.

I have tested my basic circuit on this spark plug design and it does not do anything different than using a regular spark plug. I will post more details on this later.

I do not have a compass. I will see if I can find one for future tests.

I thought the the effect on the equipment was just RF. Also I don't know how to create a dipole field or anything about dipoles. I'm not a EE.

Hope this helps.

Luc

[Peter Lindemann]

Well Done

Came across this one...
to me it shows how capable the enhanced spark idea is.... bcuz diesel does
not like to "vaporize" at all.... especially in a gasoline carburetor.
YouTube - Engine running on Plasma Ignition-1

GoldenEquity,

Thanks for posting this film. But why were you trying to run the engine on Diesel fuel? Was this just to demonstrate the increased ignition capability of the plasma spark?

Aaron and I have had a small lawn mower engine running on the plasma ignition for about a week. Tests have been both exciting and disappointing. So far, we have just been running it on gasoline. The engine runs smoothly, even with the adjustable needle valve CLOSED. This leaves only the main run jet (factory set) supplying fuel. Even with this restricted fuel supply, the engine is capable of full speed and full power.

We have used a timing setting similar to the magneto, which fires the spark plug considerably before TDC. The system has a 23uf capacitor, which is charged to 170 volts from a 400 watt inverter run from a 12 volt battery. An SCR is triggered to discharge the 23uf capacitor into the ignition coil by a small magnetic reed placed near the flywheel magnet in place of the magneto coil, which we removed. The system is very simple, and works quite well.

The down side of this, like Luc shows in his recent film, is that no other electronic devices nearby function properly. We have tried to monitor the system with an oscilloscope, but cannot get any clean signals. We finally rigged a completely isolated circuit with a second magnetic reed, in an attempt to monitor the speed of the engine. Even this totally isolated circuit, powered by its own battery supply, was full of distortion and impossible to get any useful signals from. This was quite surprising and very disappointing. Apparently the plasma spark broadcasts significant EMF radiation into the surrounding area.

Unless these signal distortions can be filtered or contained in some way, I doubt if a system like this could run in proximity to an automotive computer!

Peter

[Ahchoooo]

GoldenEquity,

The down side of this, like Luc shows in his recent film, is that no other electronic devices nearby function properly. We have tried to monitor the system with an oscilloscope, but cannot get any clean signals. We finally rigged a completely isolated circuit with a second magnetic reed, in an attempt to monitor the speed of the engine. Even this totally isolated circuit, powered by its own battery supply, was full of distortion and impossible to get any useful signals from. This was quite surprising and very disappointing. Apparently the plasma spark broadcasts significant EMF radiation into the surrounding area.

Unless these signal distortions can be filtered or contained in some way, I doubt if a system like this could run in proximity to an automotive computer!

Peter

I don't get it. Isn't the engine metallic? How can EMF pass through the engine block to go outside? May be through the sparkplug hole? May be it is not EMF that is causing all the problem?

Also, have you tried running the engine without gas?

[Aaron]

Lawnmower Tests

Overview pic - magnet triggering reed, triggering scr to dump caps to primary of ignition coil. Cap charged from 12v thru inverter so there is 0 voltage for scr to shut off between cycles, inverter through resistor to bridge to caps.


Used half bridge so power would shut off between cycles to 0v so scr would close. Later, inverter through bridge was enough to shut off scr.


12v to inverter, inverter to resistor/bridge


Magneto removed, plate with holes put in place with reed so timing can be adjusted as needed. It is set so that it fires a split moment before TDC. It is running on gas for early tests.


Copper wire was inserted into custom drilled hole to give actual thottle control by pulling the fast/slow rabit/turtle cable instead of the stock fake half way throttle control.


We can make it run smooth, turn the jet in lean all the way to the bottom but it still runs...before this ignition, it would bog down and die. It is an enhancement simply for gas.

I measured 260F on the exhaust when gas get was turned out. Then we tested temp when fully lean and couldn't get exhaust temp above 160F.

[tstorey]

Luc,

Earth is a dipole.

Everything science measures is dipolar. (+) (-)

A magnetic field is is dipolar. One pole is plus and one end minus...just like a human being.....right hand plus....left hand negative.

Modern Physics has never found/measured a magnetic monopole. This would be a magnetic field with ALL (+) charged particles...it would not have two opposing "poles."

I would have to assume that any equipment/instruments designed for the electromagnetic life on planet Earth would have a dreadful time with a monopole.

The particles in the atmosphere around the monopole would go "nuts." (negatively charged particles would rush towards the monopole...positive would be repelled....dipolar particles would align in wild and crazy ways etc) The modern physics guys are probably never going to find a monopole until they design an instrument that could measure one.

Like I said if the compass spins.......

T

[smw1998a]

More Observations

GoldenEquity,

The down side of this, like Luc shows in his recent film, is that no other electronic devices nearby function properly. We have tried to monitor the system with an oscilloscope, but cannot get any clean signals.....

Even this totally isolated circuit, powered by its own battery supply, was full of distortion and impossible to get any useful signals from. This was quite surprising and very disappointing. Apparently the plasma spark broadcasts significant EMF radiation into the surrounding area.

Unless these signal distortions can be filtered or contained in some way, I doubt if a system like this could run in proximity to an automotive computer!

Peter

Hello All,

I had several problems with digital equipment around my circuit. As I reported I lost a DMM (LCD display no longer works) and CMOS 7555 timers in the circuits failed where they would normally function well in other, similar, applications. My digital camera was kept at least three feet from the discharge to prevent noise and glitches. I wouldn’t even consider putting my little digital scope near this circuit while it is sparking. I did, however, forget to turn it off after setting one of the astables and when the spark gap fired up, I noticed that the display on my little scope was scrambled, it took a hard reset to cure this and the probe wasn’t even connected to the circuit. Moving coil meters and my analogue scope seem to cope better. I have had many hours running without further component failures, other than the initial CMOS 7555’s, which I replaced for the bi polar 555’s.

The circuit behaves similar to the relay based circuits. The characteristic spark effect is the same. When moisture is added to the electrodes the familiar, violent increase in brightness and loudness is evident. I have been able to look deeper into the effect and it’s cause.

Firstly, what interested me was the apparent increase in spark energy and the effect of the HV diode. I have come to the conclusion that the enhanced spark, in comparison to the standard high tension spark, is the “effect” and that the addition of water to the enhanced spark is a separate effect altogether.

During the “Water SparkPlug III” demo I had the scope connected across the 4uf capacitor. To my surprise, there was little difference in the waveform when the diode was connected to, and disconnected from, the circuit. IMO the enhanced spark effect was not the result of oscillations between the ignition coil and the capacitor.

Looking deeper, with the scope, I set about measuring the discharge time of the capacitor. Without the HV diode, observing the standard high tension spark, the duration of the discharge from 250v was 140uS (micro seconds). This is pretty quick considering the secondary winding of the ignition coil has around 7 to 8k ohm of resistance.

The reason for the “effect” became obvious when I connected the HV diode and ran the test again. The scope showed the capacitor discharge from 250v took only 8uS resulting in the enhanced spark. As the voltage output of a transformer is proportional to the rate of change, clearly, the significantly shorter discharge is producing more voltage in a shorter time, resulting in the amplification of the spark discharge for the same energy input.

My conclusion at this time is; At the moment of switch closure, the HV diode conducts and allows the secondary winding to potentialise and the magnetic domains in the coil core to begin to orientate themselves, thus reducing the resistance presented in the secondary winding and magnetically in the coil core at the very beginning of induction. As the capacitor discharges through the primary winding, the induced voltage in the secondary increases rapidly. Once the voltage of the secondary winding exceeds the voltage held in the capacitor the diode becomes reverse biased and blocks the rapidly rising voltage. As most of the resistance, both electrical and magnetic have been significantly reduced very early in the coil discharge, the remaining energy discharges very rapidly creating the “effect”.

IMO The effect is a unidirectional, short duration, high voltage pulse. The exact criteria for Peter’s “Electro Radiant Event”.

There are a few problems as have been observed by Myself, Luc, Aaron, Peter and many more. Interference! The problem is, if you put any sort of resistance in the discharge path the effect fails to manifest. This includes increased air gap( not an issue with spark plugs), resistance in the plugs, inductive filters, even a film of water covering the total surface of the electrode was enough to block the effect but not the standard HV discharge.

The only thing I can suggest at this time is to reduce the size of the capacitor. While using photo caps I noticed very violent discharges. Reducing the capacitor size allowed me to increase the frequency. Again, I don’t think this would be an issue with an inverter. But the discharges were equally impressive. The more violent the discharge the greater the EM bursts from the wiring etc.. Using a sledge hammer to crack a nut type of thing.


Anyway, enough from me..

All the best Lee….

[gotoluc]

@tstorey, sorry of my ignorance of the term Dipole and thank you for explaining it. I will find a compass and test. BTW I like the way you think and write.

@Peter Lindemann and Aaron, great work and testing on the gas engine. To see you can lean down the engine to the carburetors max shows very promising results to make ICE much more efficient. This is what Robert Krupa (Firestom Spark Plug) has also found that he could actually Lean Down an ICE during testing of his plugs (with special coil and driver) down to 30:1 and the exhaust temperature would also go down. Please listen to his most recent (June 2nd 2008) interview: http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_207413.mp3
I think what we have here is great since we are starting to see the same effects as Robert Krupa has found but with a much simpler circuit, a stock coil and standard Spark Plug. This is why I was testing his Spark Plug concept!... to see if it had any benefit with our effect. I found none what so ever. The spark finds a single shortest point and does a discharge just like a standard Plug. That is why Krupa talks about a driver and a big coil is needed to make his Firestorm Plug work. It will only spark at multiple points when the coil is pulsed at high speed. That is what I found in my tests. So anyone who is thinking if only I had Krupa's Firestorm Spark Plugs in my engine I would get better economy is dreaming . They would do just like a standard plug (one spark) if you do not have a high Performance coil and coil driver. So with all this said, I think we have something big here and we should all focus on testing and developing this further.

I really like the idea YouTube user revizal had, trying Diesel on a gas engine (which should not work under normal circumstances) and the fact that he says the Exhaust had no smoke shows that we have found a very useful use for the circuit. As you know Diesel has a higher energy content than gas so it would require less fuel.

Last night I was telling my friend Rick Price that I was going to start testing on my lawn mower engine with gas fumes and water moisture.

To get gas fumes, I would use a large container stuffed with stainless steel pot scrubbers or you can use a large flat air filter to have the gas contact over a large surface area which will greatly increase the gas to change to vapor. The container would have an adjustable intake and an output tube to the carburetor. For the water moisture I have a cold vapor ultrasonic humidifier that I'll use for that. I will test to find the best blend of the two.
We can also test with sending the exhaust back in the input just like the GEET system.

I am very hopeful that together we will find a much more Efficient way to make an ICE work with this circuit and finding the best blend of capacitor size with fuel and water ratio.

I'm very happy with all the great work everyone has contributed.

Luc