Water Sparkplug

[gmeast]

Wow!

Hello all
I tried many things to get the reed switch to work fine on the 300v side, I even tried to limit the cap charge to 200v using some zener diodes and a transistor, but that did not help either. So I decided to get a optocoupler with a DIAC on the output that can handle up to 600v. This optocoupler was then used to trigger the SCR and the reedswitch was now on the 12v side. After all this is the circuit I have now:



So I made a video about how this circuit behaves on a gas generator. Here it is:

YouTube - Water spark test on a gas generator

You can hear how the RPM's go up when I power ON my variac and how they go down when the variac is turned OFF. This does not happen instantly, because of the heavy flywheel. The booster cap voltage was about 300-400V, did not measure yet, but I will try go up to 800v, my voltage quadrupler should handle that. The throttle on the generator is fixed down.

Jetijs,

WOW! That's fantastic. Sounds nice and smooth. Al least I know now that a reed switch concept will work to trigger my triac(s) when I get to that stage in my experimentation. Thanks for sharing.

Peace,

Greg

[Aaron]

great test!

Great work Jetijs!

You proved that the plasma absolutely increases what is burning. We found this on the lawnmower and Revizal evidently is seeing this with his bike.

Do you have a preferred waste spark solution in case you run with HHO added to the intake?

[Jetijs]

Do you have a preferred waste spark solution in case you run with HHO added to the intake?

Hi Aaron.
I was thinking about this and I think that the best way would be to use a 2:1 gear or pulley system, but that would not be easy. We could do this using a circuit which allows only every second pulse to do its work, but then again, how would the circuit know on which pulse to start so that it filters out the waste pulses and not the power pulses? Although this would be preferable, I don't think that the waste spark will make much trouble especially if we will be able to go past TDC, then the waste spark would actually help, at least in a 4stroke engine.

Thanks,
Jetijs

[Aaron]

waste spark?

Hi Jetijs,

A 2:1 seems to be the best solution but you told me before between the engine and generator there is no space to get to the shaft. I did read somewhere someone had an extension sticking out the generator or something and they used that as a shaft to turn a 2:1 but I'm not sure how they did that. Most generators I've seen are sealed on 1 end on these generators unless they drilled it out and replaced the shaft. More work that I'd prefer.

Also thought about a counter to do every other one.

Do you know of a vacuum switch that would trigger each time definitely on highest or lowest vacuum?

Even if the waste spark was on or after tdc, it could still spark to the gas input from bubbler, etc... or would it?

[Aaron]

waste spark

Jetijs,

Someone posted a link to this...in this forum I think. I copied the posts..here they are... from Wouter I think??? There were some pics but I don't have those in this...

-----------

Ignition system for small engines running on Hydroxy ONLY

It should be obvious that with Hydroxy as the ONLY fuel, the use of 2 stroke engines are ruled out since they require oil to be mixed with their fuel for lubrication.

Therefore, only 4 stroke engines will be considered in this brief.

First, some engine data.
The crank shaft on a 4 stroke engine turns twice (720º) for every ‘work’ cycle.
Since most (if not all) small engine designs use a magnet on the fly wheel (which is mounted on the crankshaft) to generate the ignition sparks,
2 sparks are delivered for every work cycle.
The second spark (which is delivered during the exhaust stroke) is NOT needed and so it is called “waste spark”. With hydrocarbon fuels it is harmless.

However, with Hydroxy ONLY, this “waste spark” MUST be eliminated.
With hydrocarbon fuels, ignition usually takes place around 8º before TDC to allow some atomization of the fuel before the actual ‘explosion’, which occurs approximately 10º after TDC.

If Hydroxy is ignited at ANY point before the piston has reached TDC, the explosion takes place at that INSTANT.
(There is NO delay or atomization here since it ‘burns’ about 1000 times faster than hydrocarbon fuels and it could be said that it is not ‘burning’ but exploding!)
The force of the explosion instantly tries to push the piston DOWN when it is still trying to come to the top to complete its compression stroke!
That is most undesirable!
When the ignition is delayed (retarded) to the point where the explosion usually occurs with hydrocarbon fuels (around 10º after TDC) then the piston’s downward movement is reinforced and useful work is gained.

Now, consider what would happen if the waste spark was NOT eliminated.
As stated above, the crankshaft revolves twice for every ‘work’ cycle.
(The first revolution covers the intake and compression stroke and the second one the power and exhaust stroke.)
Thus, the second spark (‘waste spark’) occurs just before (the same degree of advance as the wanted spark, about 8º) before TDC at the end of the exhaust stroke.
But when the ignition pulse is delayed to be after TDC, the waste spark will occur at the beginning of a new ‘cycle’, where the intake valve has just started to open.
So now, with a slightly open valve there is an open path to the fuel line (Hydroxy), and there comes a spark! Guess what happens… Guaranteed back fire!

And I can assure you that even the most minute opening will allow the ‘flame front’ to propagate back to the supply line. How do I know? Experience. Lots of it.

Further, let me tell you that I have personally not found ANY method of stopping back fires to propagate back to the electrolyzer, EXCEPT water. While most people call them bubblers, I prefer the name “flash-back arrestor”, since that is their true role.
If you doubt the above statements about stopping flash backs traveling back to your electrolyser and DESTROY it, by all means, ignore the advice.
Not only will you DESTROY your electrolyser but very likely injure or even KILL yourself and/or others!

An example of engine calculations:
I bought a new, 118cc, one cylinder, 4 stroke petrol engine for Hydroxy experiments.
Its rated max. output is 4 horsepower (2960W) at 3600RPM.
For the ease of calculations, lets round up the capacity to 120cc (0.12L)
This is the maximum volume of air/fuel mixture it can suck in during its intake cycle.
As stated before, the engine’s ‘work’ cycle number is half the crankshaft revolution.
Thus, at 3600RPM, the number of fuel intakes is 1800/minute.
1800 x 0.12L = 216L/minute
However, as only 1% of QUALITY Hydroxy (mixed with 99% of air) is needed to obtain the same power as petrol, this 120cc engine should require only 2.16L/minute of Hydroxy to run at 3600RPM!!
(Naturally, it would require less at lower speeds. It remains to be seen if it will require more under full load than this calculated volume.)

Now a few notes about the necessary ignition delay and how to achieve it.

In one article it was suggested that one could use a 555 IC to delay the ignition pulse.
Yes, that could be done but it would only be correct at ONE speed.
The reason is obvious:
Ignition advance/delay is related to piston position, NOT time.
It is expressed in ‘degrees’ but for hydrocarbon fuels it is varied slightly with engine speed. (due to its relatively slow burning)
With Hydroxy, ignition will take place at the same ‘degree’, (same position of the piston) regardless of engine speed.

At this stage, a couple of things are clear already:

One: on my test engine (and I dare say on most, it not all, small engines) it is not possible (meaning: NOT practical) to eliminate the ‘waste sparks’.
Two, there is NO provision for ignition timing adjustments, neither mechanical, nor electronic.
In other words, the existing ignition systems used on small engines are USELESS for Hydroxy.
We need a NEW electronic ignition system, complete with ADJUSTABLE delay.
So how can that be done?

Again, two revolutions of the crankshaft is 720º (two circles but one ‘work cycle’).
The camshaft, (controlling the valves) however, turns only ONCE, which is 360º.
In electronic terms, that is 100%.
We want to delay the ignition timing from where it is now, say, from 8º before TDC to 10º after TDC. That is a delay of 18º.
The equation is: 360 : 100 = 18 : X Re-arranging it: 360X = 1800, X = 5
In other words, 18º is 5% of 360º.
We need to delay our original ignition pulse by 5%, irrespective of frequency.
(the ‘frequency’ here is the engine’s revolution)
The above example serves to illustrate the difference between the ‘old’ and the ‘new’ settings, assuming that the degree settings relate to the camshaft revolution, 360º.
However, as I understand it, the ignition advance/retard degrees are usually expressed in terms of crankshaft degrees (720° - two revolutions of the crankshaft)
In that case, the above percentage of 5% is halved.
Then, 18º is 2.5% of 720º


Since we need a NEW ignition system, this ‘delay’ will no longer relate to the ‘old’ setting. A new signal is taken from a sensor (Hall switch) mounted on the engine, detecting the intake (or exhaust) valve’s position.
Using the signal from this sensor, the ignition spark could be made to occur anywhere but we want it approx. 10º (or more) after TDC (adjustable within a few degrees)
Of course, our reference is still TDC.
When we express all that in electronic signal terms, the intake stroke (piston travels from TDC to BDC) is ¼ of the engine’s work cycle, which is 25% of our wave form.
(90º of the work cycle and 180º of crankshaft rotation)

If we transform the delays from degrees to percentage, we get the following figures:
10º ATDC is a delay of ~1.39%
25º “ ~3.47%
So, if we want the adjustment range of 10º - 25º, the percentage difference is 2.08%.
[We can also calculate the elapsed time this translates to, for any given speed.
For example: at 3600RPM, the ‘frequency’ is 30Hz. One period is 1/30 = 0.0333sec.
Thus, a 1.39% delay means that the piston has traveled (from TDC) for 463.3µs to reach the position of 10º ATDC (relating to crankshaft revolution)]

One simple way to implement these delays is to use a PWM (Pulse Width Modulator) circuit, which is my preferred choice.
(How this is done will be described in detail in a technical “circuit description”.)

It needs to be pointed out that the ignition system for Hydroxy ONLY (not just a booster) will be very different from ignition systems for hydrocarbon fuels.
It will be significantly simpler.
There will be NO “speed mapping”, NO “load mapping”, NO retard/advance change with engine RPM, NO rich/lean mixture setting, NO cold start setting, NO “knock sensor”, NO fuel/air temperature sensor, NO Oxygen sensor, etc., etc.,
(“modern” engines are full of all that rubbish!)
There will be NO need for high energy sparks, multiple sparks, etc.
Further, there will be NO such thing as UNBURNED fuel remaining in the cylinders!!

In short; when we get to the larger engines (cars), the first thing we have to do is to rip out the “computer” and install our own system, incorporating electronic injection as well.
(Perhaps another option could be to completely re-program the ‘computer’, provided that one could obtain the original programming software from the manufacturer, which, I would say, is HIGHLY unlikely!)
I am in favor of electronic injection (but ONLY for Hydroxy) for two reasons:
1. I reason that if we allow Hydroxy to flow continuously, some of it may disappear during the other ¾ of the engine’s work cycle. (the intake stroke is only ¼ cycle)
2. If Hydroxy is ALWAYS present in the intake manifold, we may risk a damaging back fire.

No, the new ignition system will NOT use a microprocessor (the modern “buzz-word”)!
NO fancy software, NO programming.
It will be a mainly analog design, using parts available everywhere and are dirt cheap!
Should a fault occur, it will be quick, easy and cheap to repair.

Les Banki
(electronic design engineer)
Water Fuel & LBE Technologies



I just converted a 5 HP Briggs with a 4 to 1 gear reducer hooked to the crankshaft (3 gears, all 2 to 1 reduction) and added an old set of points from a 69 gmc that have the condenser built in (had a great time at the auto parts store buying these), welded a bolt to the last gear to trigger the points, I mounted the gears on a plate that ties into the 4 bolt pattern on the rear of the engine, slotted the holes in a circular pattern so that I could adjust the timing on the fly, added a coil and a coil resistor, hooked it up to a battery and fired up my CHEAP, SIMPLE!!! ignition system (the old timers had this all figured out already, why reinvent the wheel, keep it simple), I just finished another cell based on the smack design around 1.5 lpm @ 12v 20 amp, tried firing it on this, no go, I kicked the cell to 24V (cell gets hot fast), didnt have time to check the output, but I managed to get it to idle around 10 sec. on stright hydroxy!!!, no gasoline, with the timing set around tdc or after a little. I had another idea, all that would have to be done to switch from one fuel to another is to add another set of points set at 8 deg. btc. or switch back to the magneto,.Next thing is to build a bigger booster.... Hope this helps



while looking for a 2:1 reduction box that would mount to the pto end of a onan genset i have for conversion i spotted the small engines with extended cam shaft's and thought this looks too easy. the cam extension is 1/2in. I used a 1/2in drill stop collar replacing the set screw with a cap screw that triggers the 12$ ford crank shaft sensor. I was about to cut a aluminum plate that would rest on the outer bearing housing for support but it turned out the base of the air cleaner was a perfect fit not too tight or loose. I replaced the engine cover bolt with a stud for the hold down/adj .then just tacked on the scrap angle iron for the sensor and adjustment/hold down screw. this engine will just be for testing, I have the timing maximum advance at 1deg after tdc and max retard is at exhaust valve open,I am using a ford module and coil.I tried this with a 15$ vertical shaft engine with a 8:1 pto but no good. it wasn't exactly 8:1. hope this helps. Brian

[Aaron]

waste spark 2

Hi Everyone

Find below an important posting that Les asked me to post on his behalf:

Overview & explanation of my complete Engine Control Unit design.

In order to AVOID future misunderstandings, I decided to write this overview/explanation but first, I wish to make some VERY IMPORTANT statements and I ask ALL readers: Please make sure you UNDERSTAND them!

The Engine Control Unit (ECU) design I am presenting to the public, IN ITSELF,
is NO GUARANTEE to produce enough Hydroxy to run any engine!

The VOLUME of Hydroxy will depend almost ENTIRELY on what kind of electrolysis system is used. (and perhaps some additional factors not covered here)
[some examples: ‘brute force’ low voltage, series cells, high voltage series cells, (with or without ‘resonance’ drive), Hasebe replica, Stan Meyer type ‘resonance’ cells, etc., etc.]

My INTENTION (with the numerous building blocks of the ECU) is to provide anyone who is willing to ‘get their hands dirty’ with the necessary CONTROL ELECTRONICS to achieve their goal.
In essence, what I am saying here is:
IF we are to use the old, rather crude and VERY inefficient (around 26%) Internal Combustion Engine at all, we need to provide it with ignition sparks at the correct times, supply fuel (in this case, Hydroxy) at the correct times and in correct volumes.
Further, the fuel pressure needs to be held steady (pressure regulation) and the power required to create the Hydroxy also needs to be supplied AND controlled (limited).

The need for all this control is INDEPENDENT of the method used for generating the required volume of Hydroxy!
In other words, REGARDLESS of which method of Hydroxy generation is employed, the supply & controls described above are ESSENTIAL.
However, you have probably noticed that I offer additional circuits as well, not absolutely necessary but desirable for a smooth working control system and power back up
(for example: automatic battery charger circuit).
There is also a convenient control panel where all adjustment are made and pressure, current and voltage levels are SET and DISPLAYED.

There is no denying that this design aims at PRODUCTION! (not just for experiments)

Anyone who is not too familiar with general physics, electrolysis, ICE
(Internal Combustion Engine) and electronics technology, could be forgiven for perhaps questioning the need for the number of circuits already presented! (still more to come!)

It is also likely to give an impression of unnecessary complexity and create confusion.

Note that I choose the name Engine Control Unit (ECU) deliberately as its functions are similar to that of the existing systems used by car manufacturers.
However, all unnecessary functions of the ‘standard’ ECU have been left out!
On the other hand, its functions are expanded to include the power supply AND control to create the FUEL itself, Hydroxy.

All circuit sections are ANALOG, using common, cheap and readily available components. (NO ‘microprocessors’, NO complex software programming!)

In simple terms, (detailed info in the respective circuit descriptions) here is a list of the circuits I have developed/designed and their intended use:

Hall switch – tiny pcb, mounted on the engine.
With a small permanent magnet attached to the exhaust valve’s ‘rocker arm’, it supplies pulses to the Ignition/Injection control module.
These pulses indicate the piston’s position in the engine’s work cycle.

Ignition & Injection control module – supplies the control pulses to the CDI module (WHEN to deliver the sparks) and the drive pulses to the injection solenoid.

Capacitor Discharge Ignition (CDI) module – when connected to an ignition coil,
it creates the required high voltage (20,000V+) to fire the spark plug.

Test oscillator – it is powered up ONLY during set-up (when the engine is not turning there are NO pulses from the Hall switch) it provides the pulses needed for the VCO.
However, since this oscillator is NOT used during normal operation, if desired, it could be used to flash the LED which indicates power SHUT DOWN to the electrolyzer in the event the flash-back arrestor’s water level drops too LOW.

Pressure regulator module – decides the desired pressure ‘scale’ (PSI, kPA or whatever), Sets and displays the pressure limit and continuously monitors and displays
(on the control panel) the actual pressure.

TL494-PWM 1- supplies and regulates the low voltage required for some cells
(for example the ‘Hasebe’ cell at about 2.8V – 30A)
Switching FREQUENCY is also adjustable.

TL494-PWM 2 – same as above but different adjustment range.
Used to reduce supply voltage from the unregulated 15-16V to 12V (or less, if necessary to reduce pump speed) for the circulation pump used with the Hasebe cell.

Current (power) limiter – intended mainly to be used with PWM 1 to limit the current to a SET maximum but can also be used with any other power supply which has ‘shut down’ (‘inhibit’) facility. Supplies both positive and negative control voltage.

Battery charger – automatic charger, used to maintain FULL charge AT ALL TIMES on a stand-by battery which will be necessary once mains power is no longer connected.
(for re-start after maintenance stops)

Power supply (regulator) module – supplies +12V (1), +12V (2), +5V and -12V to the various modules, sensors and the LCD display.

Water level sensor & pump driver 1 – used to automatically detect the minimum water level in the electrolyzer unit and refill to the set maximum level when necessary.

Water level sensor (& pump driver) 2 – used to detect the minimum (Danger!) water level in the flash-back arrestor and SHUTS DOWN the electrolyzer power supply!
Can also be used (with a second pump) for automatic re-fill of the flash-back arrestor.

240V AC Phase Control module – intended to be used as POWER INPUT CONTROL for 120 cell (series) electrolyzers.

Phase Control current limiter 1 – uses Hall effect based LINEAR current sensor
ACS712 ELCTR 20A-T to measure electrolyzer circuit current, adjusts the desired limit and controls the above Phase control module.

Phase Control current limiter 2 – same function as the one above BUT it uses a silicon diode (in a Wheatstone bridge configuration) as a current sensor. (dirt cheap!)
The sensing diode detects the TEMPERATURE RISE in a short, narrow copper track on the pcb. (see more details in its circuit description)

Note: only ONE of these current limiters is used, NOT both!

Relay board – a universal AC/DC 30A relay with a 12V DC coil, transistor driver and indicator LED. Intended for general HIGH power switching and is used mainly with the timer & timer interphase circuit.

Timer & timer interphase module – while NOT essential, it is VERY ‘handy’, particularly for REPEATED experiments.
It eliminates time measuring errors and a lot of ‘guess work’.
Also eliminates large mechanical power switches!
It can also be used to stop the engine/generator after a pre-set time (up to 24 hours!)

5 input OR gate – enables the power supply (mainly for the electrolyzer) to be controlled by up to 5 control circuits.

Power supply filter capacitor board – just a practical & convenient way to mount
10 large value electrolytic filter capacitors (4700uF, 25V).

Control panel –
See circuit description for the functions which can be SET and DISPLAYED.


Closing notes:
Once again, as indicated in this overview, not all circuits are being used at the same time.
I have tried to cover everything I could think of which I thought would the necessary and/or desirable to control. This would give a choice of options, if you like.

I wanted ALL electronic controls in place and available when (or if) they were needed, just so I would NOT need to run “back to the drawing board” (computer) to do more designs in the middle of the physical work with engines!

Coming up with the concepts, developing/designing the circuits, drawing the circuit diagrams and pcb layouts, writing the circuit descriptions (and other writings), chasing part samples needed for the designs, etc., has taken almost 18 months of hard work.

If I have missed or left out something, let me know! I will do my best to fill the gap!

Finally, judging by the number of posts on several Forums, the ignition and
”waste spark” issues have received a fair bit of attention lately.
Quoted here is part of just one such post to help me illustrate my point:

“I just converted a 5 HP Briggs with a 4 to 1 gear reducer hooked to the crankshaft (3 gears, all 2 to 1 reduction) and added an old set of points from a 69 gmc that have the condenser built in (had a great time at the auto parts store buying these), welded a bolt to the last gear to trigger the points, I mounted the gears on a plate that ties into the 4 bolt pattern on the rear of the engine, slotted the holes in a circular pattern so that I could adjust the timing on the fly, added a coil and a coil resistor, hooked it up to a battery and fired up my CHEAP, SIMPLE!!! ignition system (the old timers had this all figured out already, why reinvent the wheel, keep it simple),….”

So what IS my point?
Well, just about every engine BRAND and MODEL is different.
Some may be able to be modified like that above, some won’t.
And so, here is the BIG question:
Which of the two options (below) do you prefer?
1. The above mechanical method: gears, rods, welding, etc., which (as described) is a power hungry Kettering system, drawing between 5 and 10A! (60 – 120W)
OR,
2. Fit a small magnet to the exhaust valve’s rocker arm, attach the tiny Hall switch pcb to the engine block and then turn a potentiometer on the control panel to set your desired ignition point, continuously variable +/- 45° from TDC, while the engine is running!
Oh, BTW, my CDI system draws only 0.5A. MAXIMUM power draw is 6W!!)

Les Banki
(Electronic Design Engineer)
Water Fuel & LBE Technologies

[michaelpaul]

WOW, thats a lot of very good information. I am glad that it was posted in such a manner that even I can understand, not being an engineer of anything.
Thanks

[gmeast]

Circuit from Signature Trace

Hi all,

The attached diagram is a simple circuit that synchs to the ac line input so the circuit can be rapidly cycled at 60 Hz and was used in my last video. It adheres to the original Gotoluc-Lindemann isolation configuration ... that is to say ... a dedicated Cap charging switch and a dedicated Cap discharging switch ... just like using the DPDT or SPDT electromechanical relay. The signal conditioners are two 10:1 voltage dividers but could also be two 10:1 step down xformers like 120VAC to 12VAC. The discharge SSR gets warm because of the initial current that can be as high as 120 amps but only for about 1 micro second. The Mosfet SSR's are only rated for 12 A so the 10 ohm-50 W inrush current limiter is critical and must be used at the charging end. Any current limiter at the discharge end kills the VA to the coil.

The manufacturers of the SSR's recommend circuit protection diodes across ALL loads ... so that's why there's one on the booster Cap also. According to them "...every load is inductive...". Fine with me!

This is not an ideal circuit, but I wanted to cycle two switches a 60 Hz and this was simplest for me.

Peace,

Greg

[Gibs]

Water lubricant

Thanks Aaron for all these pertinent infos, you know your stuff man.

...It should be obvious that with Hydroxy as the ONLY fuel, the use of 2 stroke engines are ruled out since they require oil to be mixed with their fuel for lubrication...

Les Banki
(electronic design engineer)
Water Fuel & LBE Technologies

With water as fuel, glycerine might be a good solution for lubrication. After been mixed with water, it still mixed even if left alone for a long period of time.

There's no need to put a lot of glycerine in water since it's about as thick as honey.

I've measured the electrical resistance of distilled water and when I add some glycerine to it, it even go higher. In a way, it enhances the dielectric properties of water. Good for us.

Keep up

[Aaron]

emulsified water

Hi Gibs,

I can't take credit for those last couple posts on waste spark, I just pasted it from a word doc.

Emulsified water has been proven in diesel engines already. With this plasma, it might burn well and provide enough lubrication.

[peteroks]

to arron

hi peter here
as a keen follower of all the action here i feel there has been great progress to a point -- many have a plasma setup working and have adapted it to a simple b and s motor .This is important but it seems that there is no direction form this point on in this forum --to move on --, instead there is just constant circuit adjustments to an already proven working plasma plug setup --------- without being able to fire that plug on water,just petrol/vapour----arron u need to review where you are where you need to take a positive direction for running a water fueled engine or do you prefer to just go around in circles--- if so the more enlightened of us will move on

[gmeast]

direction?

hi peter here
as a keen follower of all the action here i feel there has been great progress to a point -- many have a plasma setup working and have adapted it to a simple b and s motor .This is important but it seems that there is no direction form this point on in this forum --to move on --, instead there is just constant circuit adjustments to an already proven working plasma plug setup --------- without being able to fire that plug on water,just petrol/vapour----arron u need to review where you are where you need to take a positive direction for running a water fueled engine or do you prefer to just go around in circles--- if so the more enlightened of us will move on

Hi all,

I for one believe all of the "circuit adjustments" are valuable. I'm working component-wise and configuration-wise toward something that will support 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

CDI's are common these days but many have conveyed that they can not be adapted to produce the "plasma - water burning effect". Getting a plug to fire and produce this effect every 1/25th to 1/30th of a second is significant even if it has only been applied to a B. & S. engine.

If a distributor type approach is pursued then it becomes quite a task because of the the shorter periods involved ... say for an 8-cyl. engine (that's every 1/200th of a second for 3,000 rpm). If a 'one coil per plug' approach is pursued then that's different.

My latest posts indicating some of the characteristics of the "effect" have gone mostly without comment. The latest post I've shared shows a circuit producing the effect at a rate of 60Hz - or 1/60th of a second being equivalent to a single cylinder B. & S. going 7,200 RPM! It does not have long strings of diodes and light bulbs. It is condensed but still produces the effect. It consumes 65 Watts and that's a little high but that will come down.

I think there is plenty of direction in this thread. I think people are learning and building things that otherwise would not be learned or built.

And thank you Aaron for starting this thread in the first place!

Again:

YouTube - sgnature trace

Peace,

Greg

[Jetijs]

Aaron, thank you for the valuable info. That means that we indeed need to solve the waste spark issue. My favorite solution so far is a 2:1 gear system. We can not use a belt driven pulley system, because if the smaller pulley wont be exatcly 2 times smaller in diameter than the bigger one, then there will be a small delay in timing on each revolution and in about 1000 revolutions the timing will be way off. So we need to use a gear system with 2:1 tooth ratio. I found that there is a perfect 2:1 gearing in a lawnmover engine. This is what controls the valve opening/closing time. Here is a photo:



So maybe we can figure out a clever way to use these. But maybe I will cnc machine my own gears, will see. But I found a perfect place in my generator where to attach this gear system.



This is the generator side end part with the protective cover taken off. There is a long bolt in the middle of the bearing that is used to press the generator shaft on the cone shaped engine shaft. We could do some lathe work on this bolt and make a thread in it so we can bolt a small shaft on it. Also we can use those two mounting holes on the sides to attach the whole gear system to the generator side. This will be a big advantage, because we no longer would need to use the magneto side and a reedswitch, now we will be able to use some optoswitches and modify the timing on the fly. This is hard to do on the magneto side. Also to be able to attach the reed switch on the magneto side, I had to cut away some pieces of the protective metal cover that also does some cooling functions in directing the air flow from the magneto fan to the engine, this is why now I can not run the system for long times, because it would overheat. With the timing on the generator side I can weld those protective plates back on and eliminate the cooling problem

[poii]

Bigger Engines

Hi all,

I for one believe all of the "circuit adjustments" are valuable. I'm working component-wise and configuration-wise toward something that will support 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

CDI's are common these days but many have conveyed that they can not be adapted to produce the "plasma - water burning effect". Getting a plug to fire and produce this effect every 1/25th to 1/30th of a second is significant even if it has only been applied to a B. & S. engine.

If a distributor type approach is pursued then it becomes quite a task because of the the shorter periods involved ... say for an 8-cyl. engine (that's every 1/200th of a second for 3,000 rpm). If a 'one coil per plug' approach is pursued then that's different.

My latest posts indicating some of the characteristics of the "effect" have gone mostly without comment. The latest post I've shared shows a circuit producing the effect at a rate of 60Hz - or 1/60th of a second being equivalent to a single cylinder B. & S. going 7,200 RPM! It does not have long strings of diodes and light bulbs. It is condensed but still produces the effect. It consumes 65 Watts and that's a little high but that will come down.

I think there is plenty of direction in this thread. I think people are learning and building things that otherwise would not be learned or built.

And thank you Aaron for starting this thread in the first place!

Again:

YouTube - sgnature trace

Peace,

Greg

Greg et al

It's been a few years, but the last time I looked under the hood of a
Subaru I remember noticing no distributor and a coil per plug. That could solve variable/dual timing spark and, cap charge-time problems.

On another note:

I have a small MOT, microswitched 12v on the pri, sec charging a 15mf cap to 307v through a 1n4007. With a 2n6054 darlington switch on pri, charge is 288v.

Thanks to all for a most interesting and civil forum.

[gmeast]

charge time

Greg et al

It's been a few years, but the last time I looked under the hood of a
Subaru I remember noticing no distributor and a coil per plug. That could solve variable/dual timing spark and, cap charge-time problems.

On another note:

I have a small MOT, microswitched 12v on the pri, sec charging a 15mf cap to 307v through a 1n4007. With a 2n6054 darlington switch on pri, charge is 288v.

Thanks to all for a most interesting and civil forum.

Hi Poii,

Thanks for replying. Yes you are right. It may be asking too much to use a distributor-type ignition concept for the plasma application. A dedicated Signal-Circuit-Coil-Plug approach is looking better and better.

The 4007 handles the 15uf cap inrush?...WOW?!

Thanks Poii. Peace,

Greg