Water Sparkplug

[gmeast]

Booster Cap

Greg,

- INCREDIBLE job with everything you're doing!

Gotoluc's showed an inverter parallel with plug as low voltage source.

Simply keep it like that but put a cap in parallel with the inverter's rectified output. OR, instead of inverter - whatever other method will keep the caps charged. I think tapping an alternator before the regulator is a simple way to do it...few hundred volts and will probably keep the caps charged fast enough.

You could use a separate inverter - might be better. My original test, I used the same input from a variac.

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for your comments. You have seen my circuit diagram? I put 'larger' cap parallel the FWB in my circuit to give the CDI cap something 'quick' to draw from when the switch opens to avoid trying to charge the CDI cap at a bad part of the rectified power waveform ... creating sort of a DC power supply. Then it's a similar principle?

Thanks Aaron,

Greg

[Jetijs]

Hi Greg,
This is what I mean when talking about Aarons booster cap circuit:



It is just that I do not use a relay but an SCR that is triggered by an optoswitch. Basically we make a simple spark on the primary side, but there is a secondary cap attacher to the spark gap that fires when it "sees" the short in form of a spark. This booster cap is then charged to higher voltages to increase the effect.

[theremart]

Testing..

Hi Jetijs,

I adjusted the timing for best power on CDI only ... no plasma. I can turn plasma 'on' and 'off' with a switch ... just a a convenience. On CDI only it is an exaggerated response to timing adjustment ... don't know why. On CDI+plasma it doesn't care until I'm way out of range. Because of all of the cautions I've received re: possible damage caused by the hotter burning gasses on plasma (and the power diff is noticeable) I run at 3 to 6 deg retarded to keep the piston farther away from the initial blast. I don't know if that's enough. I am entertaining ingesting water mist to pre-cool the gasses or running on emulsion of gas/water or something. I'm also entertaining suggestions (big time) 'cause I don't want to melt my Bug.

Thanks for comments and replies,

Greg

This sounds like a job for a lawnmower where you could test it without great financial loss of the motor. But I must make you blush more, you have done some real quality work!

[gmeast]

booster Cap

Hi Greg,
This is what I mean when talking about Aarons booster cap circuit:

It is just that I do not use a relay but an SCR that is triggered by an optoswitch. Basically we make a simple spark on the primary side, but there is a secondary cap attacher to the spark gap that fires when it "sees" the short in form of a spark. This booster cap is then charged to higher voltages to increase the effect.

Got it. Thanks.

Greg

[jstadwater]

Yeah, what they said above. Remember Greg, I was trying to point out the booster cap to you quite a few pages back. On page 31 or 32 I think. I found the post:

Hey Greg,

Thanks for that reply, I think I have a pretty good handle on the circuit now. The fact that it's switched using the negative instead of positive, works out even better for me. I plan to re-configure a distributor to trigger the circuit with a 12V negative signal.......PERFECT. As for the "backside boosters", you REALLY have not seen the "effect" at it's full potential until you hook up a booster cap on the back side. As I said, this is not my design. I can only wish I came up with it, and thank Aaron REPEATEDLY for sharing it. With your triac setup, you should be able to hook up an extra single triac to charge the booster cap, the discharge will take care of itself when the coil fires to the plug. You can trigger it to charge the booster cap the same time the front triac charges it's cap. Since your circuits are well isolated you should be fine using the same power supply to charge both caps instantaneously. I have had success with only one inverter using this setup. I did get some feedback and fried one inverter, but I did not know how to isolate the circuits at that time. You may want to try a separate power supply first, just till you can verify everything is cool. I'm still new with all this electronic stuff. The schematic you want to see is on page 8 of this thread, Aaron also uploaded a video of this a few posts below the schematic. You are going to LOVE this, trust me! I am now going to order a few triacs and caps and diodes, to further enhance my circuitry. You MUST try the booster cap setup, the effect is trully ASTOUNDING!!! Use the same high V microwave diodes for the "booster cap" as you have from the coil's HV+ to LV+. You hook up the HV diodes from the coil's HV+ to the "booster cap" positive, and then ground the "booster cap" negative to the base of the sparkplug. And VIOLA!! The results had me doing backflips in the shop! Happy testing, please post your results once you try the "booster cap", I would like to see how well it works with the triac setup. Thanks, have a great day............................Mike

Hi,

I have looked at that sketch of Aaron's a hundred times and never actually saw what he was showing until I noticed the blue ink in his sketch. Different colors didn't work for me in preschool either. Now I see it. Thanks for persisting at bringing this to my attention. Nice work Aaron (a little belated but also before my time here).

Peace,

Greg

Seriously, you have to at least see what the effect is like with a booster, Aaron really outdid himself on that one.
A neighboring shop just donated a 13 HP Kohler single cylinder lawn tractor to me for R&D purposes! Can't wait to see how it acts with a REAL spark igniting in the cylinder. More playtime tomorrow, later..........................Mike

[sirmikey1]

Meyers Water Splitter Revelations:
YouTube - SECRETS OF STANLEY MEYER'S WFC - Lecture 1.1

[poii]

water injection

Hi Jetijs,

I adjusted the timing for best power on CDI only ... no plasma. I can turn plasma 'on' and 'off' with a switch ... just a a convenience. On CDI only it is an exaggerated response to timing adjustment ... don't know why. On CDI+plasma it doesn't care until I'm way out of range. Because of all of the cautions I've received re: possible damage caused by the hotter burning gasses on plasma (and the power diff is noticeable) I run at 3 to 6 deg retarded to keep the piston farther away from the initial blast. I don't know if that's enough. I am entertaining ingesting water mist to pre-cool the gasses or running on emulsion of gas/water or something. I'm also entertaining suggestions (big time) 'cause I don't want to melt my Bug.

Thanks for comments and replies,

Greg

Greg

!!Awesome work on the bug!!

I put water injection (WI) on a Dodge 3.9 v6. It has an air compressor controlled by a pressure sw pressureising a 2 gal garden sprayer bottle fed to a fuel injector fired by a pnp darlington tapped into the #6 cyl fuel injector signal.

The compressor is a $12 Motortrend 12v 250 psi w/gauge.

The pressure sw is a Square D water well pressure sw (home depot $10) with contacts removed and fitted with a MO door nc microswitch for 3psi pressure range (off the shelf range is 20 psi). The small adjustment spring was removed and the microswitch is mounted on its post.

The fuel injector is from a Buick Le Saber and has 4 holes in the tip (junk yard $5). Any big engine FI would likely work but the 4 holes give better atomization.

The garden sprayer (Gilmore brand) had a garden hose connector so I tested it to 50psi (the Dodge runs at 30psi). I removed the hand pump and put a 1 1/2" pvc solvent pipe plug w/o-ring under the screw cap.

With WI and an EFIE mpg is +20%

I suspect with the single injection/2rev different cyl's may get different amounts of water at higher load, so more smaller pulses may be better.

For non FI engines a pwm controller (NTE1720, LM3524D, NTE1753) with a MAP sensor in the vacuum line and maybe a tach signal from ign coil might work to drive the WI.

We could start another thread if anyone wants more on this.


Many Thanks to All!

[gmeast]

forgot

Yeah, what they said above. Remember Greg, I was trying to point out the booster cap to you quite a few pages back. On page 31 or 32 I think. I found the post:

.................................................. ..........

.................................................. ..........

Seriously, you have to at least see what the effect is like with a booster, Aaron really outdid himself on that one.
A neighboring shop just donated a 13 HP Kohler single cylinder lawn tractor to me for R&D purposes! Can't wait to see how it acts with a REAL spark igniting in the cylinder. More playtime tomorrow, later..........................Mike

Hi Mike,

As it turns out I'm using one right there at the FWB anyhow but I considered it a 'front side cap' (to give a name to it) because its at the power supply end of the circuit. "Semantics" ... the breakdown of communication.

Thanks you guys for jumping in,

Greg

[insane4evr]

Greg

!!Awesome work on the bug!!

I put water injection (WI) on a Dodge 3.9 v6. It has an air compressor controlled by a pressure sw pressureising a 2 gal garden sprayer bottle fed to a fuel injector fired by a pnp darlington tapped into the #6 cyl fuel injector signal.

The compressor is a $12 Motortrend 12v 250 psi w/gauge.

The pressure sw is a Square D water well pressure sw (home depot $10) with contacts removed and fitted with a MO door nc microswitch for 3psi pressure range (off the shelf range is 20 psi). The small adjustment spring was removed and the microswitch is mounted on its post.

The fuel injector is from a Buick Le Saber and has 4 holes in the tip (junk yard $5). Any big engine FI would likely work but the 4 holes give better atomization.

The garden sprayer (Gilmore brand) had a garden hose connector so I tested it to 50psi (the Dodge runs at 30psi). I removed the hand pump and put a 1 1/2" pvc solvent pipe plug w/o-ring under the screw cap.

With WI and an EFIE mpg is +20%

I suspect with the single injection/2rev different cyl's may get different amounts of water at higher load, so more smaller pulses may be better.

For non FI engines a pwm controller (NTE1720, LM3524D, NTE1753) with a MAP sensor in the vacuum line and maybe a tach signal from ign coil might work to drive the WI.

We could start another thread if anyone wants more on this.


Many Thanks to All!

Please do. I am very much interested.

[Aaron]

booster cap

Hi Greg,

Your diagram in concept appears to be the same as my drawing that Jetijs posted.

My drawing there is what I tried first when I thought that the low voltage from the variac/inverter can only fire across the plug IF the HV went at the same exact time that the on cycle of the variac/inverter was on too. I thought that if I had a cap, then the timing of that wouldn't an issue anymore.

Later, I used a totally separate power supply charging a cap that went parallel with the plug and it was more reliable from what I found. That is why I referred to it as being on the backside after that.

[gmeast]

backside frontside

Hi Greg,

Your diagram in concept appears to be the same as my drawing that Jetijs posted.

My drawing there is what I tried first when I thought that the low voltage from the variac/inverter can only fire across the plug IF the HV went at the same exact time that the on cycle of the variac/inverter was on too. I thought that if I had a cap, then the timing of that wouldn't an issue anymore.

Later, I used a totally separate power supply charging a cap that went parallel with the plug and it was more reliable from what I found. That is why I referred to it as being on the backside after that.

Hi Aaron,

Thanks pal. Have a great weekend,

Greg

[goldenequity]

Gas Water Emulsion

Hi Greg... excellent work!
I post the below because you mentioned you were thinking of trying a water/gas emulsion. This was an impressive patent I discovered/studied.
He mixed 2 emulsifiers with gas and water, simply swirled it around in a beaker and it thoroughly blended the gas and water in a clear emulsion.
That's impressive.



A Review of the Arnold Feuerman Patent

Here is a described recipe and formula for creating an inverted emulsion (water-in-oil).
It surprisingly produces a clear (rather than a milky) emulsion of gasoline and water and has worked successfully for the inventor on mixes up to 22% water.

Besides being a clear emulsion, benefits are the simplicity and ease of mixing as the compatibility of the 2 surfactant types used, provide the normally incompatible liquids, complete disbursement and total miscibility, and in addition, only fractional amounts of the 2 nonionic surfactants are required.

This single document attempts to provide the reader all the information necessary to identify and acquire the necessary chemistry to create and test the emulsion recipe and to perform tests to develop the emulsion for their own use in creating and combusting the emulsion fuels in their own automobiles for testing. It should be tested with diesel and home heating oil and should be amenable to most if not all hydrocarbon fuels.

The 1975 United States Patent 4158551 claims the 22% water-in-gasoline fuel combusted properly with no modifications (at that time) to the test engine; and further demonstrated an increase of 25% in fuel economy.

Needed, are 2 chemicals commonly used by manufacturers and found among the ingredients listed in many common household and industry products.
They are (both) nonionic surfactants; unregulated and obtainable; and are both required for this rather flexible formula for emulsifying water and gasoline.

1. Cocamide DEA
**used in tests was trade name CALAMIDE C made by Pilot Chemical Company and VARAMIDE MA-1
made by Ashland Oil.
Generic Cocamide DEA is easy to obtain and available in 1gallon/5 gallon/55 gallon amounts.
A quick search found an available suppliers at the following links:
Cocamide DEA by The Chemistry Store.com Inc
eBay Store - Chemistry Connection: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate: Decyl Glucoside, Plantapon
**many "sample" sizes of various surfactant/emulsifiers here
Below Attached is a list of the various Trade Names of the various Cocamide DEA formulas on the market.

2. An EthOxylated NonylPhenol
There are many trade names and formula derivatives of this broad based nonionic surfactant;
all or many may work as well as another.
The 3 different formulas used were of the Ethoxylated alkylphenol derivative variety and all worked.
All formulas had different Molar concentrations of Ethylene Oxide to NonyPhenol; and all variations worked.

It should be noted only Ethoxylated alkylphenol formulas were used in the patent testing and are listed as:
**VARONIC N30-7 and VARONIC N-6 made by Ashland Oil and IGEPAL CO210 made by GAF Corporation.
Below Attached is a list of the various Trade Names of the various EthOxylated NonylPhenol formulas on the market.

It is pointed out by this writer, that all or many of these common nonionic surfactants may work (especially of the Ethoxylated alkylphenol varieties) and that those used by the inventors were merely readily available at the time.

The following various methods demonstrate the flexibility in creating the emulsion:

1 ml. of IGEPAL CO530 and 1 ml. of CALAMIDE C were poured into 78 ml. of gasoline and then 20 ml. of tap water was added. A slight shaking of the container formed a clear emulsion.
The gasoline-water emulsion of the present invention can be readily formed by adding the surfactants to the gasoline and then introducing tap water. No prior stirring between the gasoline and surfactants is required,


1.5 ml. of IGEPAL CO210 was added to 82 ml. of gasoline in a beaker. 1.5 ml. of CALAMIDE C was added and 15 ml. of water. A gentle shaking of the beaker produced a clear emulsion of the gasoline in the water.

3.5 ml. of VARONIC N30-7 and 3.5 ml. of VARAMIDE MA-1 were mixed with 70.5 ml. of gasoline and 22.5 ml. of water.

2 ml. of VARONIC N-6 was poured into a beaker containing 88 ml. of gasoline. 10 ml. of tap water were added and emulsified into the gasoline by gently shaking the beaker.

There's only 2 ingredients needed from the patent:
Cocamide DEA (in many shampoos)
and
an EthylOxylated AlkaPhenol (I don't think it matters which one.... there are lots... it's an OH Alcohol)

Here is a comprehensive list of Ethyloxylated NonyPhenol and Cocamide DEA surfactants
of various trade names and molar concentrations that are in the market place and manufactured
by various chemical companies like Pilot Chemical, Ashland and many, many others...... check for samples!

Generic Cocamide DEA is easily obtained here.... they have many common soap/shampoo surfactants in sample sizes
eBay Store - Chemistry Connection: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate: Decyl Glucoside, Plantapon

Obtaining EthylOxylates will most likely have to be from Chemical Companies but there's lots.

List of the producers/trade names of the 2 surfactants used:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?a...0;attach=26471

[mrbreau]

Greg

!!Awesome work on the bug!!

I put water injection (WI) on a Dodge 3.9 v6. It has an air compressor controlled by a pressure sw pressureising a 2 gal garden sprayer bottle fed to a fuel injector fired by a pnp darlington tapped into the #6 cyl fuel injector signal.

The compressor is a $12 Motortrend 12v 250 psi w/gauge.

The pressure sw is a Square D water well pressure sw (home depot $10) with contacts removed and fitted with a MO door nc microswitch for 3psi pressure range (off the shelf range is 20 psi). The small adjustment spring was removed and the microswitch is mounted on its post.

The fuel injector is from a Buick Le Saber and has 4 holes in the tip (junk yard $5). Any big engine FI would likely work but the 4 holes give better atomization.

The garden sprayer (Gilmore brand) had a garden hose connector so I tested it to 50psi (the Dodge runs at 30psi). I removed the hand pump and put a 1 1/2" pvc solvent pipe plug w/o-ring under the screw cap.

With WI and an EFIE mpg is +20%

I suspect with the single injection/2rev different cyl's may get different amounts of water at higher load, so more smaller pulses may be better.

For non FI engines a pwm controller (NTE1720, LM3524D, NTE1753) with a MAP sensor in the vacuum line and maybe a tach signal from ign coil might work to drive the WI.

We could start another thread if anyone wants more on this.


Many Thanks to All!

Awesome creativity!!! I'd call that thinking outside the box.

I too, would be interested if you started a thread on this.

Warren
..

When a man's knowledge is not in order; the more of it he has, and the greater will be his confusion." Herbert Spencer

[gmeast]

McGiver

Awesome creativity!!! I'd call that thinking outside the box.

I too, would be interested if you started a thread on this.

Warren
..

When a man's knowledge is not in order; the more of it he has, and the greater will be his confusion." Herbert Spencer

@ all,

I totally agree! He sounds like a regular McGiver. Anyone have some chewing gum? FANTASTIC! ! I didn't follow all of it, but I'm saving it to file!

Greg

[gmeast]

WI

Greg

!!Awesome work on the bug!!

I put water injection (WI) on a Dodge 3.9 v6. It has an air compressor controlled by a pressure sw pressureising a 2 gal garden sprayer bottle fed to a fuel injector fired by a pnp darlington tapped into the #6 cyl fuel injector signal.

The compressor is a $12 Motortrend 12v 250 psi w/gauge.

The pressure sw is a Square D water well pressure sw (home depot $10) with contacts removed and fitted with a MO door nc microswitch for 3psi pressure range (off the shelf range is 20 psi). The small adjustment spring was removed and the microswitch is mounted on its post.

The fuel injector is from a Buick Le Saber and has 4 holes in the tip (junk yard $5). Any big engine FI would likely work but the 4 holes give better atomization.

The garden sprayer (Gilmore brand) had a garden hose connector so I tested it to 50psi (the Dodge runs at 30psi). I removed the hand pump and put a 1 1/2" pvc solvent pipe plug w/o-ring under the screw cap.

With WI and an EFIE mpg is +20%

I suspect with the single injection/2rev different cyl's may get different amounts of water at higher load, so more smaller pulses may be better.

For non FI engines a pwm controller (NTE1720, LM3524D, NTE1753) with a MAP sensor in the vacuum line and maybe a tach signal from ign coil might work to drive the WI.

We could start another thread if anyone wants more on this.


Many Thanks to All!

Hi poii,

You sir are a regular McGiver. I would love to watch you work! Very impressive and I will study your post and see if I can do something like that for the Bug. I have the discharge trigger signal from the distributor Hall sensor to work with. It swings 0 - 12VDC. Any advice would be helpful and appreciated.

Peace,

Greg