Water Sparkplug

[lapperl]

My latest attemp to quiet the inverter was to change out the caps in my tripler circuit from 120uF down to 22uF (undesirable change, it dropped my plasma spark WAY down). It still will not handle the VexUs without starting to whine loudly within a couple minutes! I used an induction digital amp meter clamped over various feed wires while operating. It showed less than 2 amps being drawn from battery at any rpm. The readings on the feed wires from the inverter (after isolation transformer) to the tripler circuit were only .56 amps for either wire. Output after the tripler circuit only showed a .22 amp draw. I am having a hard time understanding why the inverter can't handle this small of a load! It is a 1000 watt inverter for pete's sake! I'm almost ready to try to tap the alternator for my high voltage. If I can't get reliable operation from this circuit using an inverter, it's time to FIND a source that will be reliable. The mentioned amp draw readings were taken while rotating distributor at 4,300 rpm, but the inverter only hangs on without "crying" at 2,200 rpm for a few minutes longer than the higher rpm. Anyone know the correct way to utilize the alternator tap before the regulator to set this up with that high voltage? Any help would be appreciated, I'm about to kick this inverter across the parking lot.

Thanks, Mike

Mike,
I do not believe that you will get the high voltage that you are looking for in the alternator unless you rewire the stator. I have rewired a Delco stator to achieve high voltage and it is possible, but what you get is three phase AC. I have tapped the stator both ways and with the factory stator you will get approximately 9 to 11 volts AC out of each phase and once you run it through the rectifier you get your 12 to 14 VDC. On my rewired stator (using 26awg wire) I can achieve 150 vdc at approximately 2000 RPM's at the alternator. It would be possible to utilize a rewired alternator but I would see two problems,

1. You need the room to mount it
2. The voltage increases at the RPM's increase.

I'm not sure if this would be the best solution, but if you would like to know how to do it then I would be glad to explain it to you.

Just my 2 cents but who knows I could be wrong.

What does every one else think?

LapperL

[revizal]

I have lived in countries with right hand drive....I was making a funny.

Revizal can you estimate for me the amount voltage for each discharge?


Thanks in advance.

T

I'm not sure, because I donot have masurement tool to know the discharging voltage. But as we know, the original spark from SUV's CDI comes to the plug at several thousand volts works as the switch to discharge 47 uF 250 Volts. The plasma effect comes from capasitor while discharging the capasitant in a short time (a few msec of times). We got the basic concept from Aaron and Gotoluc how to create the plasma to the spark plug, but the problem always the way to switch discharging plasma to the certain plug.
The most important modification on this water plasma spark is finding several way such using relay, reed switch, SCR, and using original HV spark as a switch in discharging the capasitor.
So, I guest what happen at spark plug is a combination of LV from the capasitor and HV from original CDI system of the common engine's ignition.

The higher the capasitant of capasitor, the higher power of watt injection to charge the capasitor and there will a problem to discharge and discharging the high uF capasitor in high frecuency (high RPM). But caused of low capasitant used (47 uF), the plasma result influenced by the resistant (in this case is plug wire) of the wire between negative of the capasitor to the place that we need to create plasma (gap or spark plug).

It may very good idea to doubler or more the voltage of the capacitor, but what greg said "the simplest is nice" or my word "the simplest is the best". And, actually we prefer the low number of diodes just as Greg and Mike did (2-4 diodes in paralel), but sometimes we did what available around us. I have only 1N5408 diodes, that why I used 16-20 1N5408 in series for each plug. That's the simplest way I found so far.

[gmeast]

VexUs - configuration update - simpler to understand

Hi all,

Wanted to post a VexUs circuit configuration update. I have moved the current limiter to a more logical location and in so doing made a hard mate between the FWB + and the chassis ground. The potentials are the same as the original and the theory is the same. What I've done should make filtering, shielding, instrumenting and all other interfacing easier to do.

Peace,

Greg

[revizal]

Adding other fuel

Great Job Revizal ,

please note that Greg is able to use his ignition wire to send the plasma because he changed them to non resistive stranded copper Ignition wires.

It is nice to see the RPM boost thanks for sharing that.

I have a request for you. Can you start experimenting on adding a small amount of Diesel to your gasoline since it has more energy content and could help to reduce fuel consumption and cost to you since Diesel is more available in your Country.

Thanks for sharing.

Luc

Thank you Luc,
Yes, previousely I've adapt a water injection and fuel vaporizer (to add octan number) to the carburetor (the transparant nilon hose on the first video). It make me easy to introduce other fluid such diesel and water to engine. Just for the information, I ever introduce diesel (just like water injection) to this engine on original ignition system. The diesel fuel inject is about 1,5 liters and last for 1 hour riding. No effect to power. RPM goes down when diesel get suck into the carb. May be the effect is better in injecting water to the vacuum intake, but I will try it too.

[ashtweth]

Hi revizal Et All.

We have a 12 volt DC motor and will run a v6 distributor with Revizal circuit to see if there is any wear on it. Probably wont be any wear and tear in the distributor and am paranoid , but before trying it with hydroxy just want to make sure.

Ash

[gmeast]

inverter problems

My latest attemp to quiet the inverter was to change out the caps in my tripler circuit from 120uF down to 22uF (undesirable change, it dropped my plasma spark WAY down). It still will not handle the VexUs without starting to whine loudly within a couple minutes! I used an induction digital amp meter clamped over various feed wires while operating. It showed less than 2 amps being drawn from battery at any rpm. The readings on the feed wires from the inverter (after isolation transformer) to the tripler circuit were only .56 amps for either wire. Output after the tripler circuit only showed a .22 amp draw. I am having a hard time understanding why the inverter can't handle this small of a load! It is a 1000 watt inverter for pete's sake! I'm almost ready to try to tap the alternator for my high voltage. If I can't get reliable operation from this circuit using an inverter, it's time to FIND a source that will be reliable. The mentioned amp draw readings were taken while rotating distributor at 4,300 rpm, but the inverter only hangs on without "crying" at 2,200 rpm for a few minutes longer than the higher rpm. Anyone know the correct way to utilize the alternator tap before the regulator to set this up with that high voltage? Any help would be appreciated, I'm about to kick this inverter across the parking lot.

Thanks, Mike

Hi Mike,

The VexUs circuit somehow generates a huge spike that fools the inverter electronics into thinking there is a short circuit. I have been using a cheap 400 Watt inverter with no real internal protection.

I have exceeded my all-time record and can proudly say I have fried three inverter in one day ... beat that ... $40.00 a pop!

I'm trying to get a scope picture of the phenomenon while running on wall AC. Don't ruin any inverters you guys before I find a fix. It is a basic issue. As you have said, there is so little current draw in this circuit that it can only be how the HV DC is being introduced. It may be an RF level phenomenon which can be shielded. There is some indication that a spike is frying the CMOS circuitry.

I'm also going to build a "dumb" 3055 transistor oscillator for the HV pump ... probably use voltage doubler ladders to get the voltage.

We'll get it. Input welcome. Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

Basic VexUs

Hi all,

I'm posting the basic VexUs circuit as a frame of reference for discussion as needed in addressing the inverter conflict issues recently observed.

Peace,

Greg

[insane4evr]

Typical Inverter Sine-Wave Circuit

Hi all,

Not sure if this will help. But here it is for reference.
Additional note: On this one, circuit ground is also not connected to case/chassis. But not all inverters are the same.

[Jetijs]

Bad news everyone

The shaft coupler of my generator broke:



So I am unable to continue the water spark tests for now. But that is not all. I was testing different timings and setups whole day. The temperature on the exhaust pipe varied between 430-500 degree celsius. This is too much. At these tests I used my custom ignition system that was not broken at the time. Anyway, when the coupler broke, I installed the original magneto ignition coil on the generator. I was surprised that the exhaust temperature went down to 380 degree celsius and the generator ran smooth and stable. I made some fuel economy tests again and to my surprise the stock magneto ignition coil and timing gave the best economy so far. I could power the same load (600W) 38m 54s. That is way longer than when I used my custom ignition system and vexus circuit. So those 7% fuel economy shouldn't be taken serious. That is what you get if you don't take all the measurements from stock configuration first. That means that my custom ignition system does not work well or I did not use the correct timing. So these economy tests need to be done again. Ash, Greg I am counting on you guys.
Sorry for the mistake

[gmeat]

Hi all,

I'm posting the basic VexUs circuit as a frame of reference for discussion as needed in addressing the inverter conflict issues recently observed.

Peace,

Greg

Hi Gmeast,


Is it possible a neon light bulb on the negative line just before the return to the inverter could help? just a thought.Love the the work you guys are doing here .



-Gary

[gotoluc]

Bad news everyone

The shaft coupler of my generator broke:

So I am unable to continue the water spark tests for now. But that is not all. I was testing different timings and setups whole day. The temperature on the exhaust pipe varied between 430-500 degree celsius. This is too much. At these tests I used my custom ignition system that was not broken at the time. Anyway, when the coupler broke, I installed the original magneto ignition coil on the generator. I was surprised that the exhaust temperature went down to 380 degree celsius and the generator ran smooth and stable. I made some fuel economy tests again and to my surprise the stock magneto ignition coil and timing gave the best economy so far. I could power the same load (600W) 38m 54s. That is way longer than when I used my custom ignition system and vexus circuit. So those 7% fuel economy shouldn't be taken serious. That is what you get if you don't take all the measurements from stock configuration first. That means that my custom ignition system does not work well or I did not use the correct timing. So these economy tests need to be done again. Ash, Greg I am counting on you guys.
Sorry for the mistake

Hi Jetijs, sorry to hear of your problem however it is interesting to know about the exhaust temperature increase with the plasma spark. This is an indication there is some extra energy and this is where the water injection could capitalize on this extra heat to increase mechanical power. The water injection may need to be timed though.

Excellent information I think.

Thanks for sharing.

Luc

[ashtweth]

Jetijs , Okay never mind Bro, ill soon be joining the fried inverter club so i wont feel left out from you and Greg

Okay, ill get the distributor tests done this week, you will bounce back man I don't really mind if there is a little where just wanna prove the MPG like you(concept of spark and booster), and i think we would get good results with wouter's booster. Will set it up tonight (Rev's) and post later to take your mind of that. Cheer up man, i am thinking now we should just make the custom inverters probably cheaper .

[air mail ef]

This stuff is great. I can't wait till someone starts using water in this system.

[xpskid]

Hi Mike,

The VexUs circuit somehow generates a huge spike that fools the inverter electronics into thinking there is a short circuit. I have been using a cheap 400 Watt inverter with no real internal protection.

I have exceeded my all-time record and can proudly say I have fried three inverter in one day ... beat that ... $40.00 a pop!

I'm trying to get a scope picture of the phenomenon while running on wall AC. Don't ruin any inverters you guys before I find a fix. It is a basic issue. As you have said, there is so little current draw in this circuit that it can only be how the HV DC is being introduced. It may be an RF level phenomenon which can be shielded. There is some indication that a spike is frying the CMOS circuitry.

I'm also going to build a "dumb" 3055 transistor oscillator for the HV pump ... probably use voltage doubler ladders to get the voltage.

We'll get it. Input welcome. Peace,

Greg

Hi Greg, Mike,

Just to confirm, I'm also having issues with the inverters. Blew my small one (350W) and have been playing with my 1200, I'm also using a straight connection to line power. Everyone needs to let the smoke out of at least one inverter, it's the cost of joining the club
My larger inverter has a couple of led gauges on it and I can see the amp spikes hitting it. Nothing measureable during operation at a steady state, but large spike pegging the meter. I installed a ballast resistor on the coil which seemed to help a little. I haven't seen the big spikes on the meter, but my voltage drops off every 30 seconds or so. Must be coming back through the battery negative.
I have the VexUs circuit back on the bench and out of my vehicle.
I tried Aaron's choke experiment using a coil of magnet wire. Sound did go away, but only one of the six plugs continued to light an enhanced spark. I'm using an old 8 cylinder distributor on the bench with only 6 leads hooked up (due to moving it into my V6). The plug that lights is first, meaning the two posts before it are missing. This translates to a longer period between discharges for this specific plug. Sorry, I didn't have much time this weekend to play.

Timm

[Aaron]

silent plasma

Hi Timm,

Glad you found the same.

I really have no idea at this point if there is any use for this but it certainly either helps us understand what we're dealing with better or it actually causes more questions.