Water Sparkplug

[lighty]

You are obviously still hurt that I pointed out to you the difference between a battery and a capacitor.

Why would I be hurt? I'm well aware of the differences between capacitor and battery and I'm still telling you that battery will probably behave pretty much the same way as capacitor in Aaron's circuit. I don't base my assumptions on a theoretical models but rather on a hands on experience when dealing with HV impulses. Not everybody on this forum is without engineering and scientific experience and I do have several large commercial projects behind me that involved dealing with kW's of HV impulses in resonant circuits. If I choose to make any suggestion to Aaron or anybody it's only based on hands on experience that might or might not turn some result in his case. However I would never suggest publicly anything that could be dangerous. Did you ever tried pulsing low current HV impulses to lead-acid batteries (and ignition coil impulse is just that- low current HV impulse)? They won't explode. They won't even bubble. They won't kill you (they could if you use pacemaker). But they will sometimes exhibit anomalous behaviour. Look again at Gray's circuit on the low voltage side.



[quote]I no longer have any desire to help the open source free energy community. Selling out to big oil is so easy and you actually get something for it besides your two cents worth.[\quote]

So then don't help anybody and go do better things and sell yourself to big oil (as you yourself said you would). World won't stop turning. If you were doing it for the advancement of the people understanding in the first place you wouldn't get hurt on some imaginary attacks on your (too big for your own good) ego. You do have expertise that's obvious but you also lack in motivation and interpersonal communication department. It seems to me that you belong to the group of people who rarely do anything practical for anybody else if they don't receive glorification and admiration. Well, let me tell you that there is a number of people out there with more than adequate expertise and experience trying to help. Granted, they're in minority and some of them are helping mostly behind scenes but they don't do it for admiration of others but because they think it's a right thing to do. I personally think that in the greater scheme of things moral and psychological integrity is something to be desired in a number of people.

PS - Since your batteries will explode, I highly recommend you go with the lithium ion, you get get so much more bang for the buck.

Thank you for your advice. Especially since you very well know that LiIon and LiPo batteries have integrated control electronics that would probably die with the first HV impulse. You can disable control electronics and LiIon and LiPo would die and explode even when using them in conventional circuits. Lead-acid batteries are completely different story. But you already know that so why bothering being so dramatic and theatrical?



Everything being said- I don't like your approach to people but if you ever decid to calm your ego down and behave like a civilized being while listening what others have to say I will be the first to embrace your knowledge.



Untill then good luck with selling your knowledge to whomever.

[lighty]

@Aaron

You're quite correct Aaron. I won't engage in any more personal discussions. They're complete waste of time and effort.

[Aaron]

good stuff

Constructive personal communication is always welcome

[WCastle]

I have been watching this thread with much interest, however it seems to have been polluted with politics, however the fact that something is happening differently is undeniable.

It is also true that sometimes the "beliefs" we have been indoctrinated with in our education in every aspect that we can be educated with do not always stand the test of time (eg : world is flat, sound barrier, Federal Reserve is a gov agency) all were known to be absolute truth but were absolutly proven false.

When I see posts that are so obvious to only provoke a response, I then start to question the truth about WHY they are here posting in the first place.



While flaming a respected member of the forum "could" be a form of energy , it certainly is not a positive energy, and does nothing to add to the advancement of the alternative energy implementation coming in the near future.

[boguslaw]

@lighty

I understand that capacitor was charged to several kV and then discharged across the spark gap. Now, on the other side of the gap there was permanent low voltage potential of the same polarity provided by another battery. So if the low voltage potential is needed in order to bounce back charge than I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be provided by battery instead of capacitor.

@lighty


Battery alone cannot immitate capacitor IMHO, you need a circuit to create a fast pulse of current from battery. That could work, with commutator for example.


boguslaw

[lighty]

@boguslaw

There are two ways of driving ignition coil. One is through capacitive discharge through primary (google CDI) and the second one is by magnetization of core by battery and then suddenly turning off the battery (classical break point ignition). Both ways will produce HV impulse and both ways are used in cars.

Also, battery will give you sudden current rise depending on it's voltage and impedance of the load pretty much the same was as capacitor. You don't need cap for that if you don't need some extreme current peaks (which in this case you don't).

[Jetijs]

was very busy today, so I could do some experiments on the water spark only in the late evening. This time I used an UPS instead of the inverter. Also I did not use a bridge rectifier but two strings of IN4007 diodes (15 diodes in each string). Everything seems to work fine, but the bangs are a bit quieter than when I was using the inverter and bridge. This might be because the long strings of diodes somehow limit the voltage in the cap. Maybe because of the voltage drop. If I set the spark frequency lower (about once per second), I get a bigger bang, because there is more time for the photo flash capacitor to charge up. If the frequency is higher (10-20Hz) then the bangs are less loud. I noticed that the 2N3055 transistor works better than the MJL2114. The MJL transistor tends to heat up very fast. Also after some sparking sessions the ignition coil gets hot. It is hard to make a good video, because my signal generator keeps restarting randomly because of the spark discharges. Any suggestions how to solve this? I got some light electroshock's when I turned the UPS on and off. But this shock was more like the static shock that you get when you leave your car without grounding yourself and touch the first grounded metal object.
Did not have time to test the positive ground thing, because it was already very late. I will do this the first thing in the morning
Here is the video:
YouTube - water spark test 2

You can see (and hear) how powerful the spark becomes if I turn the UPS on. My photo camera did not get all the sparks.
Thanks.

[rosco1]

Pressure bell tests.

I spent the morning running a whole bunch of tests using my pressure bell and a few different spark "intensifiers".

Same conditions as in the tests I provided the video link to the other day.
I never recorded the events as they were too numerous and proved to be a bust, however a lot was learned through the exercise.

Basically, running V8 engine, Idle stepped up to 1300rpm this time, 1 plug lead going to the pressure bell.

I now have to retract my earlier claims to have been achieving white plasma by introducing an air gap into the plug lead, between the distributor and spark plug. Closer examination has now shown me that while it appears to be white under pressure, it's still not quite getting to the stage where it affects a water molecule enough to call it an explosion. There is definately something happening, but it's certainly not a detonation.

It could be that I need a bigger coil. I was using the 50-55K Coil in cap Chevrolet type HEI.

I took a variety of approaches, running a standard plug(NGK BP7FS), fitting a Lectran Pulsar, an ICAT/IKAT, and my home made "intensifier". I even fitted a Brisk Premium LGS spark plug and tried that too, all using pressures above 100psi.

I introduced water into the equation and while it appeared to be burning the water vapour(it kept disappearing rapidly), it never displayed as an explosion at all. Very bright flashes yes, but certainly not an explosion of any sort.

Always at pressures above 100psi, the spark is indeed much brighter than what can be achieved without using an intensifier, and while it does appear "white", upon very close examination, it's not quite white enough.

To explain it better, I played around with my home made intensifier, opening the gap right out to where it began shorting, then screwed it back in, so it's about 15mm gap(shorting), back to 10mm(ok here). At this distance, the spark passing over the gap is not blue, as when the gap is below 3mm, but actually a magenta colour, I stretched the spark from blue to magenta, then applied it to the plug, with and without water vapour. I made several small adjustments to the air gap, and while it definately affected the spark to varying degrees, it wasn't enough to make it truly "white". There was still a hint of blue present in the radiance.

I have to admit that while it appeared to be very close to making some sort of explosion, it never quite got there. Amazingly bright events tell me I was close, but nope, no cigar. ( I have sore jaw muscles though, from all the clenching)

Sorry folks.

I need to replicate S1r's nail circuit now, and apply that. I'll attempt that another day.

[**~Imhotep~**]

was very busy today, so I could do some experiments on the water spark only in the late evening. This time I used an UPS instead of the inverter. Also I did not use a bridge rectifier but two strings of IN4007 diodes (15 diodes in each string). Everything seems to work fine, but the bangs are a bit quieter than when I was using the inverter and bridge. This might be because the long strings of diodes somehow limit the voltage in the cap. Maybe because of the voltage drop. If I set the spark frequency lower (about once per second), I get a bigger bang, because there is more time for the photo flash capacitor to charge up. If the frequency is higher (10-20Hz) then the bangs are less loud. I noticed that the 2N3055 transistor works better than the MJL2114. The MJL transistor tends to heat up very fast. Also after some sparking sessions the ignition coil gets hot. It is hard to make a good video, because my signal generator keeps restarting randomly because of the spark discharges. Any suggestions how to solve this? I got some light electroshock's when I turned the UPS on and off. But this shock was more like the static shock that you get when you leave your car without grounding yourself and touch the first grounded metal object.
Did not have time to test the positive ground thing, because it was already very late. I will do this the first thing in the morning
Here is the video:
YouTube - water spark test 2

You can see (and hear) how powerful the spark becomes if I turn the UPS on. My photo camera did not get all the sparks.
Thanks.

I know this doesnt pertain to what your doing, but have you tried to see if you can capture any induced energy off that monstrous spark! Will be interesting to find out. And not only for hydrogen burning but possibly even energy recovery, looks wild The intense pops and spark was impressive. Excellent work!!

[lighty]

@Jetijs

If your circuit is producing positive HV impulses (as I think you stated somewhere) then everything you do is described by me in my first reply to Aaron in this thread. Basically you produce HV low current spark at sparkplug which ionize media between electrodes enough for LV high current arc to form by allowing the current from LV power supply to easily flow. Hence, your circuit appears to be different in it's basics than the Aaron's and I don't think you will benefit from changing the polarity. IMO for this Aaron's circuit is more suitable.

[**~Imhotep~**]

interesting vid

check it
YouTube - Water Arc Acceleration Plasma Ignition - HHO Hydrogen Cell
Fuel injection assembly - Google Patents

[Jetijs]

Lighty,
my ignition coil outputs a negative impulse. I tested this with the diode string. This is why I had to change the polarity of the intensifier side, because otherwise nothing would happen, not even the small spark. I also tried just to attach some batteries in series as the intensifier, I had only half dead batteries and could get up to 30V, but this was not enough, the spark was just as small as without any intensifier circuit. Ossie somewhere said that you need at least 100V to get the spark boosted. More experiments to come
I also got my old Russian test car for experiments

[Aaron]

schematic

Hi Jetijs, would you mind posting the exact schematic you're working with with the UPS, etc..?

[Jetijs]

Aaron, this is the exact circuit I am using:


Today I did some experiments with the basic circuit like Aaron posted. I found out that the following circuit is not exactly right:


Instead it should be like this:


This is because at the first picture the cap is charged up and when the switch is closed, the cap is discharged in the ignition coil, but in the same time the high voltage diode is disconnected from the + terminal of the cap. If you do that, you will have only a small spark. The high voltage diode anode should be connected to the cap + terminal at all times or you will not get the big bang. In the second picture you can see how I did this, first I closed the S1 switch, this made the cap charge up. Then I opened the S1 switch and closed the S2 switch, this discharged the cap into the ignition coil. In fact I did not have the S1 switch, I charged up the cap and just turned the variac off before the discharge.

Lighty, I also tried your reversed polarity circuit - it works just the same, I observed no differences. But to get the big bang in this reversed polarity circuit, you need the diode cathode to be attached to the negative terminal of the bridge. If that switch is open and there is no connection between the diode cathode and the negative cap terminal, you will get just a small, weak spark.

Also, **~Imhotep~**, that is a good idea about trying to capture the inductive spikes from the low voltage side. I thing that we could make a bifilar coil with thick wire and about 100 turns and just pulse the low voltage side through one of the bifilar windings. The we just add a rectifier on the other winding and capture the spikes in a battery. Could that work?

[Aaron]

hho + moisture with spark

Jetijs, have you tried to spark your browns gas with this plug by itself and mixed with moisture? See if there is a difference with the explosion compared to sparking it with a regular spark?

Maybe you could have the plug or nail gap inside some paper tube and with the torch outlet, just inject a little hho, remove it stand back and turn on the spark...maybe with ear plugs from across the room. lol

Do same with HHO but with normal spark.