Water Sparkplug

[Tishatang]

@Rick

Why not get an air compressor head as a test bed instead of a ICE. Get a two cylinder one, cheap at harborfreight.com With two cylinders, there might be the possibility of running closed loop, exhausting from one cylinder into the other? Magnets on the flywheel for timing.

Chris

[Tishatang]

@Rick

I forgot. Use a 3-phase motor as the starter. I think you can add a capacitor across the extra windings and get it to run on single phase. One running, you should be able to put DC voltage on the extra coil, and it will become a generator? I think? Never tried it.

Chris

[**~Imhotep~**]

Yes, at first I thought my supply is around 400v, and I used it as so, but when I exploded one capacitor, I found out that the voltage was a bit higher than 500v. Anyway I used two series, to get high voltage, and I don't understand what the diodes actually do, which make it burst like that, and I can conform that it is noway like a normal spark, it glows differently and it seems more "Radiant" than any other spark I have seen, it does not heat, and also it seems that it is more SOFT than a normal spark.

I think that the diode may be making the flow in the spark uni-directional as Peter stated in his book, about Grays tube, this circuit maybe a secret to the secret of the Gray tube, I recall Jetijs had built a Gray tube without success, maybe he'd better try using the gray tube by this circuit?

Anyway Thanks gotoluc, more experiments to do.

i had the exact same thoughts when aaron first showed me this!!! i believe you might be correct.

[elias]

Yes water burns

Hi

I finally managed to burn water by using a 4.7 uF capacitor charged up to 270 volts! The problem is the fact that water was shorting out my spark gap, so I made the sparkgap slightly wet by using a wet sponge. A yellowish flame was produced and it is really exciting to see this for the first time! In the mean time I had a 450v 330uF capacitor, and when I used this an AMAZING plasma spark appeared in my spark gap and my relay burnt out!
I need to replace my relay, I wonder what kind of relay can stand it?

Elias

[Aaron]

relay trigger

Don't worry about the relay...just use relay like in Peter's schematic to simply trigger a capacitive discharge into the coil. Then you can probably have unlimited booster in parallel on the backside from a separate supply. That is an indirect way for a relay to trigger unlimited power.

[boguslaw]

I'm slowly preparing to replicate experiment with plasma spark using gotoluc circuit, but now I'm stopped by curious discovery. I have no power supply capable of charging 400V cap and no variac so I tried my Bedini schoolgirl circuit. In meantime I realized that it's something bad with it - circuit produce high frequency oscillations without need to rotate wheel. I will describe this on Bedini schoolgirl thread. Anyway, what I have learned is that possibly high frequency oscillations even with low voltage current are able easily charge large capacitors very fast. I can measure only 18V but neon is lighting brightly and 10uF/250V cap is charged in "no time" to 250V with usable power when discharged. I could speculate that it may lead to OU effects when discharged thought large coil into spark gap. Of course it's possible that my voltmeter cannot measure high voltage spikes from Bedini circuit, but the key is that original circuit has no power to light neon on output...

[boguslaw]

Here I described my simple modification of Bedini schoolgirl circuit : http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post24152

[rickoff]

Reply to Tishatang

@Rick

Why not get an air compressor head as a test bed instead of a ICE. Get a two cylinder one, cheap at harborfreight.com With two cylinders, there might be the possibility of running closed loop, exhausting from one cylinder into the other? Magnets on the flywheel for timing.

Chris

Hi Chris,

I assume that you are referring to the comressor head shown at:
Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices
Strangely enough, I was looking at their Central Pneumatic compressor heads just a few days ago (while looking for an electric hoist for use in my boathouse), and it struck me that it might prove useful for some water spark experimentation. It wouldn't take an awful lot to modify it as an engine if utilizing my tube attachment idea, which injects water at TDC and explodes it shortly thereafter on each downward motion of a piston. Exhausting one cylinder to the other in a compressor pump would prove problematic. Consider this:

As one piston is at TDC and is starting to move downwards, the other piston is at BDC and starting to move upwards. The piston moving down gets the water explosion, which helps force the other piston upwards. The one moving upwards needs to exhaust its water vapor to the cylinder where the other piston is moving down. So far no problem, as the piston moving up is pushing the vapor to the opposite cylinder while the piston moving downward is creating a suction effect that draws the water vapor in. But what happens next? When the upward traveling piston reaches TDC, you have exhausted nearly all of that cylinder's water vapor to the opposite cylinder, where the piston is now at BDC. The piston at TDC will not have sufficient water vapor for its water explosion as it begins moving downward, and the same thing happens to the piston moving up from BDC when it reaches the top of its cylinder. A back and forth exhausting can work only if the pistons, cylinder sleeves, and block have special cutouts, airways, and valving that provide for the right amount of vapor at precisely the right interval, such as in the Papp engine, and unfortunately that requires extensive modifications.

Thanks for your thoughts, Chris. I really appreciate your suggestions, and as I say, my tube injector with built in arc contacts could be rather easily adapted to a compressor pump for bench testing. Then again, though, a small 4 cycle gasoline engine would be even easier to convert, and gasoline is the fuel we are attempting to replace, so my major efforts will be in that direction. Your starter/generator idea is similar to what happens in my Toyota Prius. A motor instantly starts the Prius engine at 1,000 rpm, and then becomes a generator, or motor again, as driving conditions dictate.

I'd better hit the sack! Up late again. It's getting light outside.

Take care, and keep the ideas coming, Rick

[jstadwater]

Not enough charging voltage???.......................

Hi Guys,

Here is a description of the problem I am having. I now have built a sparkplug circuit to try to duplicate Peter's effects. I wanted to get the first part working before I add the back-side extra cap as per Aaron's design change. I don't have a variac, only a 1000 watt 12 volt DC to 110 volt AC. As I intend to install this into a car, I MUST be able to power this from a 12 volt DC source, to be useable. I set up 2 momentary switches (as I don't currently have a 555 timer), 1 to charge cap and 1 to discharge cap into ignition coil. Using the normal 12 volts into the coil (just like Peter's Malory, only mine is Accel), I can BARELY even see the spark. Then I charge the cap with the 110 volt, output through bridge, (40watt house lightbulb between inverter and bridge) and fire that through the coil. I get a nice spark, with an audible, but not at all "loud" snap. This effect is then intensified noticably by adding the 12,000 volt microwave diode (in accordance with Peter's video). BUT, no impressive "snap" or "bang" from the sparkplug end, as I hoped to get. Do I just not have enough charge voltage? The momentary switches are installed into the + positive wires at this time, do the switches need to instead interact with the - negative leads? The caps I have are flash caps, 80 and 120 microfarad, 330 volt. I took apart a computer power supply and obtained a 330 microfarad, 200 volt cap, seems little or no better than the other 2, and doesn't charge full as instantly as the smaller ones. I can flash the smaller ones as fast as I can manually operate the switch and they still charge fully everytime. I notice a decreased spark effect if I flash the larger cap that fast. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as always. What is the minimal voltage charge required at the cap to produce good results?

[Peter Lindemann]

HV Diode is BAD

Hi Guys,

Here is a description of the problem I am having. I now have built a sparkplug circuit to try to duplicate Peter's effects. I wanted to get the first part working before I add the back-side extra cap as per Aaron's design change. I don't have a variac, only a 1000 watt 12 volt DC to 110 volt AC. As I intend to install this into a car, I MUST be able to power this from a 12 volt DC source, to be useable. I set up 2 momentary switches (as I don't currently have a 555 timer), 1 to charge cap and 1 to discharge cap into ignition coil. Using the normal 12 volts into the coil (just like Peter's Malory, only mine is Accel), I can BARELY even see the spark. Then I charge the cap with the 110 volt, output through bridge, (40watt house lightbulb between inverter and bridge) and fire that through the coil. I get a nice spark, with an audible, but not at all "loud" snap. This effect is then intensified noticably by adding the 12,000 volt microwave diode (in accordance with Peter's video). BUT, no impressive "snap" or "bang" from the sparkplug end, as I hoped to get. Do I just not have enough charge voltage? The momentary switches are installed into the + positive wires at this time, do the switches need to instead interact with the - negative leads? The caps I have are flash caps, 80 and 120 microfarad, 330 volt. I took apart a computer power supply and obtained a 330 microfarad, 200 volt cap, seems little or no better than the other 2, and doesn't charge full as instantly as the smaller ones. I can flash the smaller ones as fast as I can manually operate the switch and they still charge fully everytime. I notice a decreased spark effect if I flash the larger cap that fast. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as always. What is the minimal voltage charge required at the cap to produce good results?

Dear jstadwater,

It sounds like you are doing everything correctly. That means that your circuit is working to produce a capacitive discharge spark at the plug, but the addition of the HV Diode to the circuit does NOT intensify the spark. This can only mean one of two things. Either you have installed the HV Diode backwards, OR the HV Diode is not working properly.

Check the HV diode in your system. Make sure the CATHODE is connected to the HV terminal of the ignition coil. If this is not how it is wired, turn the connections around and try again. If this IS how you have it wired, the HV Diode is bad, and you need to replace it.

Keep up the great work!

Peter

[boguslaw]

..or you have a coil producing negative HV spark.Did you connected properly capacitor to the coil terminals ? On my coil there is a "B+" sign indicating the polarity of the coil.

[jstadwater]

Did more tests, no better results. I took care making sure I hooked the leads up correctly on the coil (Accel coil is marked + and -). I just went and switched them anyway, just to see. Very small spark at plug. The gray stripe down the side of the cap is negative for all, correct? That's what the meter said with it still connected in the flash camera, would have probably popped by now if it was inverted, right? When I have the cap (my inverter charges it to 130 V) discharge straight into the coil without the HV diode from HV+ to LV+, it does still spark, just smaller. Hooking the diode back up makes a good difference in the intensity of my spark. When I watched Peter's video, he had no visible spark (that I could see) without the diode hooked up. Then he hooked it up and it went bang, bang, bang,...............I have NO bang, only a semi-bright (don't need sunglasses just yet) blue-white spark with a small "snap" (barely hear it over the click of my momentary switch). Also turned the HV diode around to make sure I had it right, NO visible spark at the plug on that test. Also had another HV diode from microwave, (googled both part # one is 12,000V other is 10,000V) tried it to see if the one was fried...........same results as other. HVR-1X-3 googled to say it was 12,000 V, anyone know if that is good enough one to use, or is that my problem with the spark?? Oh, and when I spray water mist, it only makes the spark turn a yellowish color until the water goes away, then back to regular. NOT what I was hoping for. Maybe with you guys' help, I'll be able to get it to work yet!


I attached a pic of it, not very professional looking I'm afraid. It works, just not good enough. The sparkplug is a Champion S59YC, shows full continuity with ohms meter. I used the MSD crimping tool and added the HV+ pigtail when I put the coil end on the plugwire, maybe I need to do something different there??? Any suggestions?

[Aaron]

strobe and cap

Are you saying the cap is still connected to the flash unit in a camera? Is a strobe in series with it? It doesn't look like it in the pic but the strobe will suck up most of what leaves the cap if so.

[ashtweth]

HI guys this is From Gene form another forum, This is for Aaron and all he wants lets us all know about an ARK and has a Q.

Msg- have you had a chance to check out the plasma pics I've put up. I know aarons noted that its best to use little 1-5uF caps but I've been using much larger caps and managed the plasmas that I put up in the photos section of evgray called white spark. What sort of cylinder is this arc/spark discharge meant to be used for? Is this being cracked under water? I'm able to adjust the size of the white plasma by adjusting the low voltage cap (relatively low voltage as it always charges to around 90vdc with the largest cap I've used so far.).

Anyways lemme know what the point of that is or if I'm wasting my time... I did this a different way about 2 years ago... I need to try and add that idea into this current one... but I think the AC oscillations on the positive side of the gap might ruin the HV diodes. Probably need high speed HV diodes to get the best results... high current in the case of the low voltage cap.

Take it easy,
Gene

[Aaron]

caps on circuit

With the caps...

On the front side for simple capacitive discharge without any diodes, you just need a small cap to just get a capacitive discharge. I can get the effect with a cap charged to only about 20-25 volts and that 20-25 volt cap discharged into the primary of the ignition coil.

In parallel across the plug or coil...there are other caps...the "booster caps"...this is where Luc and others simply have a bridge from an inverter with + going thru HV diode.

Let the cdi (capacitive discharge) initiate the effect and when you have an inverter with caps in parallel or variac with caps...there is no problem with timing the power supply with the spark...it is automatic. It will simply trigger whenever the CD happens.

You can go 2 ways with the booster caps in parallel thru hv diode.

You can go hv with low capacitance or you can go lower v with higher capacitance.