Water Sparkplug

[gmeast]

Variac

some water spark plug set ups show a variac and full-bridge. Is this because there needs to be fine voltage tuning or for values above twelve volts or for really high voltages? None of the videos actually give you a voltage range for nominal operation.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

Does someone know?

Thanks,

Greg

[gotoluc]

Does someone know?

Thanks,

Greg

Hi Greg,

thanks for your interest . Did you read the first posts of this topic? Your question seems to show you have not read enough.

You can use 120vac or 220vac through a full bridge rectifier to charge the capacitor which is then discharged to a automotive coil using a automotive relay activated by 12vdc to switch between charging the cap from bridge to discharging the cap to coil.

Please do read the posts if you have more questions since the information needed to replicate is there.

Luc

[revizal]

Reed timing setup consideration

I will see what SCR's I can get tomorrow. Another question, did you disconnect your inverter before each pulse, like in the basic water spark circuit? Or did you use a simple circuit like this:


Also, I checked my UPS, it is outputs a modified sine wave
Thanks,
Jetijs

I've run my genset on gasoline with timing controlled by reed. On my last video I set reed at magneto place that makes engine run knocking. But after consider times that need to contact the spark (magnet switch on reed and after that reed switch relay). It must delay a few second. So I set the reed about 15 deg before original magneto position, and it worked. I can run the engine in full speed (without electrical load).
I didnot use SCR for switching because I used full wave rectifier. The voltage on gate could not down to 0 volt, so the SCR always in ON position after blast the current. Relay is much better for me, but as above consideration we must set reed several degree before magneto to get right spark timing on engine.

Revizal.

[smw1998a]

More Observations

Hello All,

During the “Water SparkPlug III” demo I had the scope connected across the 4uf capacitor. To my surprise, there was little difference in the waveform when the diode was connected to, and disconnected from, the circuit. IMO the enhanced spark effect was not the result of oscillations between the ignition coil and the capacitor.

Looking deeper, with the scope, I set about measuring the discharge time of the capacitor. Without the HV diode, observing the standard high tension spark, the duration of the discharge from 250v was 140uS (micro seconds). This is pretty quick considering the secondary winding of the ignition coil has around 7 to 8k ohm of resistance.

The reason for the “effect” became obvious when I connected the HV diode and ran the test again. The scope showed the capacitor discharge from 250v took only 8uS resulting in the enhanced spark. As the voltage output of a transformer is proportional to the rate of change, clearly, the significantly shorter discharge is producing more voltage in a shorter time, resulting in the amplification of the spark discharge for the same energy input.

My conclusion at this time is; At the moment of switch closure, the HV diode conducts and allows the secondary winding to potentialise and the magnetic domains in the coil core to begin to orientate themselves, thus reducing the resistance presented in the secondary winding and magnetically in the coil core at the very beginning of induction. As the capacitor discharges through the primary winding, the induced voltage in the secondary increases rapidly. Once the voltage of the secondary winding exceeds the voltage held in the capacitor the diode becomes reverse biased and blocks the rapidly rising voltage. As most of the resistance, both electrical and magnetic have been significantly reduced very early in the coil discharge, the remaining energy discharges very rapidly creating the “effect”.

Hello All,
I have attached two scope shots regarding the above observations.

All The Best Lee...

[blahblah]

Hi Rip,

The implosion only becomes a potential issue with low power that just about everyone is using, in my opinion.

Hi Aaron..is it to early to say how much energy is going to be needed for say a 4 cylinder ICE...Im reading between the lines that we need enough power to produce a plasma effect that has enough volume and velocity to either run as lean as or perhaps with HHO/Moisture ..?

The TSI Patents were suggesting one problem has been one of using a lot of input power thus outweighing benefits...is it a given with all the experimentation that this will not be an issue with yours/others set ups ?

My vision of all this work would be currently a test set up for an ICE ...

one coil per cylinder with custom made non-resistive plasma plugs...kliker type leads (and for battery)...driven and configured to run by a DIY Megasquirt ECU..along with the Plasma creating circuits...timing as you say it makes sense to go past TDC so firing on the down stroke..

The linkage of how to fire the plasma circuit for each cylinder..Im sure could be ironed out..even if simply either a crankshaft sensor/s could be utilised..perhaps 4 of them..or sensors in the distributor...Im talking out loud so forgive me if this sounds pretty average.

Sorry had to dump what Ive been seeing in my head as this mega idea and thread started to blossom.


btw ..this thread...Im going dizzy trying to keep up..phew...to everyone freakin well done..more to do but wow just getting this far proves that open source collaboration is working very well !

[rip]

Hi Rip,

I've seen many comments on the gas engine and the implosion that follows up. I don't believe any of that is justified. The plasma with or without water...about 95%+ probably implodes soon after...but that is ONLY if there is not enough Low voltage cap power to cause a strong enough Lorentz Force plasma acceleration to eject the plasma from the gap outwards into the engine to thoroughly obliterate any fuel in there.

I can dump 1000v at about 20uf or 400-500v @ 330uf and I can guarantee you probably less than 5% of it is anywhere near the gap to implode.

The implosion only becomes a potential issue with low power that just about everyone is using, in my opinion.

This plasma burst with or without water happens crazily fast...but if it is happening AFTER TDC, then the explosion/detonation, etc... expands when the piston is on the down stroke therefore working in harmony with the motion of the engine and these explosion/detonations can be timed to happen on demand.

Regular detonation in an engine is when the fuel explodes on contact when injected because of all the heat from being too lean, etc......is then makes more heat which causes the gas to diesel/ping/detonate more causing more heat causing ore dieseling. But this is so hard on the engine because this happens when the fuel is injected meaning it is happening way BEFORE TDC. So these detonations are happening when the piston is coming up for compression meaning it is bucking the piston on the upswing going AGAINST the harmony of the engine.

Also, having a rapid explosion/detonation timed when we want it...the temperature is way lower than dieseling from heat.

On diesel engines, they run by detonation...is the diesel squirted in at TDC or AFTER TDC? If so, then the fuel is put in when the detonation is used to the advantage by having it explode when the piston is on the downswing.

In diesel engines yes they inject fuel slightly before TDC, it’s the combination of the increase pressure (compression stroke) coupled with the glow plug firing that causes the detonation. I wonder the characteristics with diesel and water explosions and how similar they are.

Yes unwanted detonations will not be an issue; the engine will never run hot enough to make the water explode. But I'm more concerned with the power you will actually see. Depending on how much you retard the spark you should still see a large pressure differential, this seems like it will not be a lot of time for the piston to travel. You get an extreme amount of pressure for a brief amount of time, but then as the water implodes and returns to relatively a stable state you have created a vacuum that is continuing to increase as the piston moves down. I beleive diesel fuel reacts much slower, that initially the pressure and temperature causes a explosion, but as the piston travels the diesel fuel not initially used will be burned due to the increase in volume and surface area of the cylinder (I may be wrong here and please tell me if I am).

I feel that a combination fuel like the water/HHO should be better. Here you are still burning the HHO, so rather like a diesel engine you explode the water but are also trying to burn the HHO. Although testing will be the only real way to get some insight as to how the burn/explosion conbustion states react so close to each other. Whether the water explosion would interupt the flame propagation of the HHO. Or if the coupled fuel would burn the HHO, explode the water, and even create steam.

Keep up the good work and thank you all for your contributions to humanity.
Rip

[gmeast]

engine test

Hi all,

Can someone please direct me to the video showing a motorcycle engine being used to domonstrate the water sparkplug principle? The view is from overhead and the engine is being kick started and a flashing incandescent light bulb is visible.

Thanks in advance, and peace,

Greg

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

I have not received any comments (from here) on the video I just posted about capacitor size and diodes. I would appreciate everyone's and all input and mostly if I'm not correctly understanding EE. My ego will not get in the way of corrections!.. it is the other way around, I welcome correct understanding since I have no real electronics training and learning as I go.

I am saying the above because a reply of my video was posted at the OU Forum and reads: Luc, I don't to slay down your entusiasm but. The first capacitor 47uF@124V is having about 0.36 J, while the second 22uF@246V is charged to about 0.67 J so it would be normal having twice bigger spark

Is this true?... if so and someone here has seen the video and came to the same conclusion and has not took the time inform me, then there is no point of sharing findings. I may as well just and pack it in.

I hope this has not happened.

Luc

[Jetijs]

Luc, I always enjoy all your videos. Keep them coming
I don't know about the capacitance thing, but just because of your video I did not spent much money on microwave diodes today instead I decided to keep using the 1n4508 diodes. Also, I always used two strings of 16 1n5408 diodes in parallel for better protection, but you showed that six diodes is all I need. This is great
Thanks

[gotoluc]

Luc, I always enjoy all your videos. Keep them coming
I don't know about the capacitance thing, but just because of your video I did not spent much money on microwave diodes today instead I decided to keep using the 1n4508 diodes. Also, I always used two strings of 16 1n5408 diodes in parallel for better protection, but you showed that six diodes is all I need. This is great
Thanks

Thanks for your reply Jetijs I also enjoy to seeing your video's. I think it would be important to get to the truth of the capacitor charge thing since it is showing impressive results.

About the diodes, I was using a string of 9 1N5404 rated at 400v ea. for a long time before I did something to damage them. So yesterday I tried the 1N5408 which are rated at 1000v ea. and got the best results at around 6 of them. Keep in mind that I'm not using larger cap's than 160uf so I don't know what happens after that.

Thanks for your reply and sharing

Luc

[Aaron]

big blasts

Hi Aaron..is it to early to say how much energy is going to be needed for say a 4 cylinder ICE...Im reading between the lines that we need enough power to produce a plasma effect that has enough volume and velocity to either run as lean as or perhaps with HHO/Moisture ..?

The TSI Patents were suggesting one problem has been one of using a lot of input power thus outweighing benefits...is it a given with all the experimentation that this will not be an issue with yours/others set ups ?

One nasa reference used 1000v @ 100uf minimum and preferably a few thousand volts. Yes, big blasts cause problems. However, there are novel ways to use repetitive smaller blasts to pump the plasma off the plug. Of course none of these reference using water as fuel, simply enhancement to be able to burn lean fuel mixture.

[michaelpaul]

Hi everyone,

I have not received any comments (from here) on the video I just posted about capacitor size and diodes. I would appreciate everyone's and all input and mostly if I'm not correctly understanding EE. My ego will not get in the way of corrections!.. it is the other way around, I welcome correct understanding since I have no real electronics training and learning as I go.

I am saying the above because a reply of my video was posted at the OU Forum and reads: Luc, I don't to slay down your entusiasm but. The first capacitor 47uF@124V is having about 0.36 J, while the second 22uF@246V is charged to about 0.67 J so it would be normal having twice bigger spark

Is this true?... if so and someone here has seen the video and came to the same conclusion and has not took the time inform me, then there is no point of sharing findings. I may as well just and pack it in.

I hope this has not happened.

Luc

Please don't pack it in. The information you and others have contributed has made me and, I'm sure many others, open the mind up and truly believe that using water as a fuel can be done. I have very little background in electronics or electricty, so a lot of the terms and the use of such is beyond me. I just look around the web to find an answer. I have had success with building the design by you (Luc) and am sharing it with friends. I have enjoyed all of your vids and have learned quite a bit, and had fun doing this. So please don't think all of you hard work is for naught. You keep doing what you are doing and I and others will keep learning.
Michael

[Aaron]

emulsified water

I feel that a combination fuel like the water/HHO should be better. Here you are still burning the HHO, so rather like a diesel engine you explode the water but are also trying to burn the HHO. Although testing will be the only real way to get some insight as to how the burn/explosion conbustion states react so close to each other. Whether the water explosion would interupt the flame propagation of the HHO. Or if the coupled fuel would burn the HHO, explode the water, and even create steam.

Keep up the good work and thank you all for your contributions to humanity.
Rip

You may find emulsified water interesting. It is probably perfectly suited for this application.

[Jetijs]

You are welcome.
Anyway, I did a big mistake because of which I had to disassemble the whole generator engine and assemble it together again, that took a whole lot of time. Now I need to adjust everything so that it runs good in stock config and then I can go on. I also got the 50W resistors that I will try using instead of the light bulb, then we will see if this will help. Otherwise I will need to add some components to the circuit so that the reed switch is triggered with 12v and opens an optocoupler that in turn will trigger the SCR. Should work fine
As for the water vapor and HHO combination, I am sure that a vacuum pump is perfectly suited for this. I saw a video where someone attached a vacuum pump on his electrolyzer, the output was impressive, but not all of it was HHO, mostly it was water vapor. And you can easy modify any cheap 12v car compressor to work as a vacuum pump
Thanks

[Aaron]

cap test

Luc,

I've done comparisons between voltage/capacitance and over a certain point, I can't tell a difference from the sound and light.

330uf at 500v gives very impressive results with or without water. For now, I'm thinking this is about the limit that I need to go to gradually. Will do some more testing soon and will post.

There are still some videos from a few weeks ago that I'll post when I have time.