Water Sparkplug

[Jetijs]

Luc,
I think that this is because the resonant charging effect, you can read about it more here:
DC Tesla Coil design

Here is some quotes from that page:

* Initially the tank capacitor is "empty" and has no voltage across it.
The full DC supply voltage is developed across the charging inductor.
No current flows around the circuit at this time.

* The voltage across the charging inductor means that current gradually starts to flow through the inductor. The current actually rises at a rate determined by the inductance of the charging reactor. As this current flows it charges up the tank capacitor.

* The current flowing in the inductor implies that energy is stored already in the magnetic field of this component. Remember E = 0.5 IČ L

* Eventually the capacitor charges up to the point where its voltage equals that of the DC supply. At this instant there is no voltage across the charging inductor, and maximum current is flowing.

* Although there is no voltage across the charging inductor at this time, the current through an inductor cannot change instantaneously. The inductance of the charging reactor acts like a flywheel and keeps the current flowing in the same direction !

* As the magnetic field in the inductor collapses, it realeases the energy that it stored earlier in the charging cycle. It effectively becomes another power source.

* Since the charging inductor is in series with the DC supply, its inductive kick (or EMF) adds to that of the DC supply. Therefore the capacitor is charged to a voltage higher than the DC supply alone could achieve.

* Eventually the magnetic field in the inductor has decayed completely, and all of its stored energy has been transfered to the tank capacitor. At this time the capacitor voltage is TWICE the DC supply voltage, and the charging current falls to zero. Now is a good time to fire the spark gap since the tank capacitor is at its maximum voltage.

Sometimes you see the effect and sometimes you don't, it is because you don't fire your relay in synch of the 60Hz wall current frequency. Sometimes you hit the right spot and sometimes you don't

[gotoluc]

Luc,

As you had mentioned "device interference" (although with a very different type of test) previously...could this "meter jump" be of that nature? Ie...it is still about 169 but the "effect" is causing an anomaly with the device itself?


Thanks,

T

Hi tstorey, thanks for your reply.

No this is not a meter error caused by the spark event since it is doing this before the spark and if I stop it (before the spark) the charge stays in the cap.

Luc

[gotoluc]

Luc,
I think that this is because the resonant charging effect. Sometimes you see the effect and sometimes you don't, it is because you don't fire your relay in synch of the 60Hz wall current frequency. Sometimes you hit the right spot and sometimes you don't

Thanks for the reply Jetijs and link ... I thought of the 60hz swing effect but then said no, I'm charging from the DC side of the bridge so how can that be affected it?

Also, it does this with no inductor connected. I only added the inductor after seeing the effect. When I added the inductor it only added 10% more boost.

Luc

[Jetijs]

I am sure that someone else can explain this better than me. I will think about this some more

[Aaron]

choke

Resonant charging choke doubling voltage

[Ozicell]

Electronics for Dummies

Hi Guys,

Please bare with me here! I pretty much have my ball spark plug where I want it but want to amplify the spark as per all your tests and circuits that you guys are playing with! Problem is.............I am electronically disadvantaged, your schematics are gobbledegook to me! I have an idea of what your are doing but can't follow how do replicate for myself. Sooooo..........could I please ask for someone to hold my hand for awhile. Firstly, a parts list, specifying what I need for both bench testing as well as car mods. Probably best to start with bench test parts.

Once I have the parts, then I am going to need a step by step procedure, hence the hand holding! Assume I know absolutely NOTHING and you'll be pretty close, however, tell me what to do and I can build almost anything!

Ok, I know I am asking a lot here as you guys are all very busy doing what you do best but if anyone can take me on, I'd reeeaaallly appreciate it!

If you don't wish to clog up the forum, then feel free to contact me privately.

Thanks in advance
Jeff

[Ozicell]

Parts

BTW, I may already have some parts needed as I have a microwave tranny and cap as well as a heap of caps and bits and pieces from pulling apart air conditioners. So maybe someone could tell me what I should be looking for with what I already have!

Cheers
Jeff

[gmeast]

more flames

Hi all,

I thought I'd post some more pictures of flames emanation from the spark plug during a run. They are not big flames but they are flames nonetheless. They follow most of the main events but are hard to capture.

Peace,

Greg

[Gibs]

Electrodes config.

Thank you Aaron for your comments about the size of the spark gap you provide good inspiration. You might be right about the circular shape of the ground electrode.

Does someone ever tried different types of water, just to see if there is any difference in spark loudness?
Also, wich one of the circuits presented here is able to fire the spark plug with electrodes immersed under water?

I think that the "effect" might be caused primarily by a dielectric breakdown and is enhanced by using distilled water because of less conductivity.
The higher the dielectric breakdown voltage, the higher the instant release of energy.

So what we need is enough voltage to break the dielectric and just enough current to override a short when water is in the ionisation state.

It's like "blowing a fuse" followed by a chain reaction.
Just sharing thoughts...

Hi Gmeast, about degradation of the spark plug electrodes, I observed significant opening of the gap after a couple of dozens of under water explosions.
It started at .015" and it went to approximately .100", the ground electrode literally bent out!!!
But no pitting.

We might need better electrodes configuration just like the Brisk extra turbo racing spark plug. I hope they're made resistor less.

Brisk USA Enterprises, LLC

Wish the best for all.

[gmeast]

Post correction.

Hi all,

The first and last pictures are the same ... don't know how that happened. They're all from the same run. I tried to edit but couldn't figure it out.

I have not run my spark plug submerged. I have only run it with water spray. I'm still using the 'famous' isolated configuration of Peter Lindemann. The gap on my plug is still .025" and it still runs cold. My HV diode gets warm though. Perhaps I am running in a sweet spot re: gap, surface area, energy, etc.

I will be soon running a two quadrant SSR bridge so I can continue to run isolated but solid state. I'll keep all posted.

Regards all. Peace,

Greg

[Aaron]

types of water

Does someone ever tried different types of water, just to see if there is any difference in spark loudness?

I've tried tap water, distilled water and salt water.

Tap and distilled seem to have no difference.

Salt water, I used real salt that is unprocessed and has all the minerals in it...flame more orange and I'm definitely staying away from salt water in an engine.

Distilled water will probably have less buildup if that even becomes a concern.

[gmeast]

Lowered capacitance

Hi All,

I just reduced my cap from 100uf to 47uf and it runs much better, more consistently, much more stability and the effect is just as pronounced. My HV diode is running much cooler now ... of course. I'm still only running line AC into the bridge. Maybe my points are not degrading because I'm running at a lower, overall power than others are ... perhaps.

Peace,

Greg

[Dread]

FAO SMW1998a

Lee,
Great Vid.
Would you mind posting your circuit? I am trying to adapt my Aaron circuit to experiment with frequencies.
Thanks
D.

[gmeast]

Soniforming

Thank you Aaron for your comments about the size of the spark gap you provide good inspiration. You might be right about the circular shape of the ground electrode.

.....................................

It's like "blowing a fuse" followed by a chain reaction.
Just sharing thoughts...

Hi Gmeast, about degradation of the spark plug electrodes, I observed significant opening of the gap after a couple of dozens of under water explosions.
It started at .015" and it went to approximately .100", the ground electrode literally bent out!!!
But no pitting.

We might need better electrodes configuration just like the Brisk extra turbo racing spark plug. I hope they're made resistor less.

Brisk USA Enterprises, LLC

Wish the best for all.

Hi Gibs,

If you experienced deformation in your electrode after firing the plug underwater and observed no deterioration or erosion in the electrode then what you most likely experienced was 'soniforming' which is a manufacturing process whereby metal is plastically deformed or shaped using an arc discharged in DI water. This is a well known process and is well understood. The explosive shock wave from an arc discharged in water can easily bend a piece of metal in close proximity. It's known by several names. This is not to be confused with "magniforming" That too is an interesting process.


I thought this might be one plausible explanation for what you observed re: your electrodes.

Peace,

Greg

[tstorey]

Gibs,

The "bent electrode" is an important observation relative to force of the effect.

Is a camera available?

The amount of force necessary to bend the electrode is a significant measurement.

Best,

T