Water Sparkplug

[Gibs]

Pump alternatives

Hi, guys.
To help solve the charge pump issue, I thougt this idea it's a little bit better than the inverter.
Inverters work at 50-60Hz (sine signal). After passing the bridge rectifier, the frecquency becomes 100-120Hz.
Now, why use (and sometimes burn... ) inverters to charge capacitors when your car allready has a better oscilator device as standard?! I was talking about the CAR'S ALTERNATOR.
It makes the electrical energy for the car. The current is AC type and has hundred of Hz at idle. As the engine's rpm rises, the frecquwncy rises also. Adding a bridge rectifier, it doubles the frecquency!
So, that is what I suggest:
alternator -> usual 7.5V/230V transformer -> bridge rectifier -> capacitor.
Yes, it's not as good as a DC-DC converter that works at much higher frecquency, but it's better than inverters. And yes, the bigger the transformer, the quicker the capacitor is charged.
Look at the schematic attached.
All the best for all.

Hi Kinetix,

I like your idea.

If I get this right, we would have to tap directly before the voltage regulator, this way this would prevent from overloading it.

My only concern is the windings of the alternator.
Considering a full demand from the car circuits, will there be enough power left?

By the way, if it is viable this is a great idea.

Keep up

_____________


Way to go Jetijs,

The simplicity of your pump circuit is astounding, great work.

It would be interesting to replace the two diodes by a bridge rectifier to see if the capacitor would charge faster and to compare the current draws. Thanks for posting your findings.

Also, about the unexplained variac phenomena, when it is connected I would expect the tripler capacitors to start charging backward relative to the schematic. Is this true?

Cheers

[Wilber]

Jstadwter
the nexus circuit does not work with resistor plugs.

[Jetijs]

_____________


Way to go Jetijs,

The simplicity of your pump circuit is astounding, great work.

It would be interesting to replace the two diodes by a bridge rectifier to see if the capacitor would charge faster and to compare the current draws. Thanks for posting your findings.
Cheers

Hi Gibs,
As Peter has said before, there is no need for the self oscillator for a bridge rectifier because since we put in a DC pulse in the coil, the output would essentially also be a DC pulse and the cap (or battery) charges a bit better if only one diode is used on the output instead of a bridge rectifier. Also if I can go up ti 1.5KHz with the discharges, there is no need for the caps to charge faster, this is already more that we need. I made a video about this circuit:
YouTube - CDI ignition system with a Bedini oscillator

Thanks,
Jetijs

[broli]

Hi Gibs,
As Peter has said before, there is no need for the self oscillator for a bridge rectifier because since we put in a DC pulse in the coil, the output would essentially also be a DC pulse and the cap (or battery) charges a bit better if only one diode is used on the output instead of a bridge rectifier. Also if I can go up ti 1.5KHz with the discharges, there is no need for the caps to charge faster, this is already more that we need. I made a video about this circuit:
YouTube - CDI ignition system with a Bedini oscillator

Thanks,
Jetijs

This might sound stupid but is that high frequency system using a conventional spark circuit? Because most videos here show a big plasma spark. Very good work though.

[jstadwater]

Thanks Wilber for those posts!!

I found a set of Champion plugs that are resister-less, they work great. They are for a Chevy 350 # is S59YC. Thanks for the pics you posted, that helps. I am working now on wiring up the circuit, I hope to have it hooked up on this old Wheel Horse tractor, cam driven points system, later today. I'll keep yall posted. I work fater when I'm not typing back to wiring, wish me luck. Later.............................Mike

[Jetijs]

This might sound stupid but is that high frequency system using a conventional spark circuit? Because most videos here show a big plasma spark. Very good work though.

Yes, this is just an ordinary CDI circuit with no booster side attached, that is why you see ordinary sparks. This should make my generator run smoother, because now the caps are charging at much higher frequency.

[broli]

Yes, this is just an ordinary CDI circuit with no booster side attached, that is why you see ordinary sparks. This should make my generator run smoother, because now the caps are charging at much higher frequency.

Oke. Let me beg you for this. Please make a video of the plasma spark outside the engine. I want to see that show at a few hundred hertz . I would pay to see it . Be carefull though you don't create black holes or something . And please don't forget to protect your eyes, you're too valuable .

[Jetijs]

broli,
for plasma bursts at such high frequency I need a high frequency charger for the booster side. Maybe another Bedini oscillator, because if I will charge the booster cap from a variac or inverter, then not all the discharges will be intensified.

[Peter Lindemann]

What's the Goal?

broli,
for plasma bursts at such high frequency I need a high frequency charger for the booster side. Maybe another Bedini oscillator, because if I will charge the booster cap from a variac or inverter, then not all the discharges will be intensified.

Jetijs,

I haven't posted much recently, but your work continues to be EXCELLENT. By your own persistent efforts in the last year and a half, you have raised yourself up to being one of the premier experimental researchers in the world who also publishes his work in the public domain. Congratulations!

In relation to spark frequencies needed to run your generator, I don't understand the need for these extremely high frequency tests. As I understand it, for your generator to produce 50hz AC power, it only needs to turn at 3000 RPM. Is this correct? For those here in the States, the generators will want to run at 3600 RPM to produce 60hz AC power.

For your generator, that is only 50 revolutions per second and only 25 ignition sparks per second to run the generator at rated speed. So, if your circuit is stable at 40hz (with the waste spark eliminated) you can run the generator at rated speed with no problems.

I recommend that you switch back to the capacitor size that operated in this range, so that each spark you produce has the maximum number of Joules of energy in it for your charging system. Also, if you drop your trigger resistor from 4k to about 2k, you should still be able to run cool enough, but you will be able to charge the cap twice as fast. Worst case scenario is you would have to heat sink the transistor.

At these speeds, your line powered booster cap charging system should be able to keep up just fine to run the engine on any level of boost you want. If not, what am I missing?

Keep up the great work,

Peter

[smw1998a]

Charging the cap is the key!

Hi Jetijs,
That’s a great circuit you have there, well done. If I may make a suggestion. Insert the HV diode or diode string. Increase the capacitance of your discharge bank (4 to 10uF). Add a secondary discharge path for the spark, you need to go direct from plug ground to the negative of the capacitor. Keep your SCR in the negative path of the primary coil only. The negative side of the cap becomes a common ground for the primary side of the ignition coil and the spark discharge path. Charge your cap to 300v before triggering the SCR. If your SCR is in the discharge path of the plasma effect you may pop the SCR with larger capacitance and grater voltage.

Excellent work. I wish you continued success.

All the best Lee…

[Ansis Freimanis]

Hi!

OK, let’s start! I am about Jetijs scheme. It’s mistake, but genius!!! Little explanation: Jetijs make some feedback(I speak with him some minutes ago), but he don’t understand at first. Let’s look at picture! (Figure1) Strange is that: he is not made spark do an ordinary job, but if we take a closer look we see this (Figure2) spark recharges/ discharges through primary inductance. And that is our feedback. If we start look to next... we see (figure3) diodes in forward/ backward direction and circuit of voltage multiplier. It’s no ordinary- diodes (15 of them) are making circuit good conduct to one direction, but to other it is VERY BIG RESISTANCE!!! You see??? And after all voltage multiplier make ONE big EFFECT!!! This circuit makes the current go FORWARD and BACKWARD!!! It’s the answer! In start moment capacitors (voltage multiplier) are empty, but after start period current (going forward/ backward) make capacitors full, and Voltage are rising and RPM go high!!! But- we need understand: capacitors must be good quality (paper/oil, or other- no electrolyte!). Be happy!

[xpskid]

Charge Switch

Greg,

In reference to you first diagram, 1 spark plug, 2 triac's for switching:
Can the charge switch be eliminated ? Have you tried keeping your first triac closed and simply trigger the discharge triac ?
My replication circuit seems to do just fine when I played with it in that mode.

Regards,

Timm

[gmeast]

parts list for the plasma CDI I built

HI all,

Here is the parts list for the plasma CDI I built:

4 ea. non resistor spark plugs
1 ea. 47uf x 450 V cap
1 ea. 470 uf x 450 V cap
1 ea. 12 ohm x 50 watt resistor
1 ea. 3k ohm x 1/4 watt resistor
2 ea. power Mosfet w/driver
1 ea. FWB rectifier
1 ea. 1:1 x 150 VA isolation transformer
1 ea. 400 watt 115VAC inverter
12 ea. HV Replacement Microwave diodes
2 ea. 1000V x 3A ultra fast recovery diodes
1 ea. standard automotive coil
1 ea. modification to make the distributor points act like a SPDT switch
1 ea. fuse holder
1 ea. 1A fuse

Peace,

Greg

[Jetijs]

Jetijs,

I haven't posted much recently, but your work continues to be EXCELLENT. By your own persistent efforts in the last year and a half, you have raised yourself up to being one of the premier experimental researchers in the world who also publishes his work in the public domain. Congratulations!

In relation to spark frequencies needed to run your generator, I don't understand the need for these extremely high frequency tests. As I understand it, for your generator to produce 50hz AC power, it only needs to turn at 3000 RPM. Is this correct? For those here in the States, the generators will want to run at 3600 RPM to produce 60hz AC power.

For your generator, that is only 50 revolutions per second and only 25 ignition sparks per second to run the generator at rated speed. So, if your circuit is stable at 40hz (with the waste spark eliminated) you can run the generator at rated speed with no problems.

I recommend that you switch back to the capacitor size that operated in this range, so that each spark you produce has the maximum number of Joules of energy in it for your charging system. Also, if you drop your trigger resistor from 4k to about 2k, you should still be able to run cool enough, but you will be able to charge the cap twice as fast. Worst case scenario is you would have to heat sink the transistor.

At these speeds, your line powered booster cap charging system should be able to keep up just fine to run the engine on any level of boost you want. If not, what am I missing?

Keep up the great work,

Peter

Thank you Peter for your encouraging words
When I first started the generator engine with the custom ignition system, the engine did not run very smooth, like it did with the stock ignition coil. I could not find any other reason for this than the inverter frequency. Also the speed regulator on my generator is disabled so that I can easily see if the mods I am doing has any effect at all. If the RPM's increase, then this is a good sign, but if the regulator was in tact, I would not be able to see any difference, because it would always keep the same speed. Because of the disabled speed regulator, the engine is running at higher speeds than is needed to generate the 50Hz AC. But I agree that an inverter should still be able to handle the speeds. Anyway, we will see if the engine will run smoother with this setup. And the good thing is that before I used the inverter and the light bulb on the primary side only, wasting much energy in the light bulb (75W) but now with the Bedini oscillator the primary side consumes only 1.2w and can handle high frequencies.
I have just finished building another Bedini self oscillator for the booster side. The coil has 5 strands of gauge 21 wire and about 400 turns. One winding is used as a trigger coil, another is used as a power coil and the remaining three are connected in series for the output. But with this setup I can charge the caps up to only 420V. That is with 1k base resistor. If I decrease the base resistance to 500 Ohms, the output voltage gets a little higher, but it does not start to self oscillate on its own, I have to "help" the coil with a magnet on the coil core. Anyway, I attached this booster side to the primary side and got the intensified spark, but the effect was not very great, the spark was just a bit brighter and louder. For this I used 1000v 0.82uF cap. Also the booster side could not handle frequencies higher than 150Hz, because at that point the intensified effect disappeared leaving only an ordinary spark. So I doubled the booster cap capacity. The intensified spark was now more brighter and louder, but max frequency also dropped. With tripled booster cap capacity, the spark was even brighter (but still nothing spectacular) but the max frequency fell to about 60Hz. I also tried a bigger capacity on the primary side, but it did not seem to improve anything.


Jetijs

[gmeast]

Greg,

In reference to you first diagram, 1 spark plug, 2 triac's for switching:
Can the charge switch be eliminated ? Have you tried keeping your first triac closed and simply trigger the discharge triac ?
My replication circuit seems to do just fine when I played with it in that mode.

Regards,

Timm

Hi Timm,

I'm scared to try it.

Greg