Water Sparkplug

[carbideTip]

Interesting. Very, very interesting. You make a presure big, but if You make a vacum situation? Is it possible to make it in Your lab? I think that is very important- understand 2 phases of ICE working process. I see some experiments in YouTube. The answer in thees videos was lovering of the effect.
Thank, You.

Did minor test under vacuum. 20-30in was hard to get a spark. Once it fired it appeared to prolong the effect.

[Ansis Freimanis]

to carbideTip

Hi! Thank`s for job. It means PlasmaSpark effect is go to "0"? Or near to it? If I ask to You- PlasmaSpark (normal- to atmosferic presure) is 10 points, then Your`s "vacum" is ?
Thanks!

[xpskid]

Hi Greg,

Did you post your new schematic earlier ? Or are you still working on the drawings ?

Regards,

Timm

[jstadwater]

Hello to all,

It seems my compression test with the plasma spark has opened up some some good discussions. I could hardly believe it myself. Thanks everyone for the comments and questions.
@ Jetijs

Congrats on your success with your genset! Thanks also for the great info about the kill switch. The plate I blew up was acrylic, as is the latest one, the new one does not have any of it's thickness removed in the center as the first one did. The polycarbonate is definitely a good suggestion, I will try to find a piece to use instead of the acrylic.

@ xpskid

The normal compression rate for most all factory engines is around 150 psi. So my 125 test wasn't far off from actual running pressure. An average 5.7 liter combustion chamber is about 67cc, so we're dealing with a pretty small area here (even smaller area for a 4 cylinder). As for the dry air vs. moist air effect on the plasma. The plasma, near as I could tell by eye, was the same effect with both moist and dry air. However, when my plate blew out, was the only time I used the moist air straight from the compressor out back. I had already tested multiple times before shooting the vid, using ONLY the three stage filtered dry air from my painter's system. I used that moist air AFTER the first video, it only took a couple seconds and the explosion was with such force, and so LOUD, I'm glad none of the pieces hit me! I was only at 100 psi max available pressure for that test, I don't think it even made to 100 before it blew. I have held an air spray nozzle open attached to the air compressor line with no dryer filters, you can see quite a bit of fine mist (almost like a fog, hint hint) being sprayed out of the nozzle.

@ Gibs

The plasma ball size and brightness BOTH intensify exponentially! I have acetylene goggles and a welding helmet both, I will look through each for next test. Thanks for suggesting that! Maybe I will be able to give a description as to the shape and size of the brightest parts of the plasma. I also have a good vaccum pump, I will see if I can setup that test.

@ Greg

YES, I can attest to a cameras inability to capture a good amount of the effect! Ever hear someone say, "The picture just doesn't do it justice"? Great vid BTW, Glad you have it working good in the bug. You are braver than me with that kick wire connection there sparky! They BITE hard, don't they? (good thing there's hardly any amps, huh) I love when the plasma comes on, it takes out all the other sounds the camera can record. Right now, I am still at 2.5uF with no storage cap, charging at about 450VDC, I might try it at 5uF soon. Do you think the oscillator circuit would keep up with my V-8? Or would I need 2?


The more we test, the further we are able to go!! I love this place! Later..................................Mike

[gmeast]

diodes

How many HV Diodes do You think is optimal for 1 SparkPlug?
Thank, You!

Hi A,

I use diodes in parallel because I try to minimize any cumulative voltage drops in the series systems. With the latest turn-down in brute force I found it satisfactory to use only 2 NTE517's in parallel because the CDI cap is only 3uF and higher voltage ... not much current ... much less heat. That was my conclusion from the bench tests, but I still have 4 (per plug) on the Bug because it's already built (they have a very easy life now).

Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

oscillator

[COLOR="Blue"]Hello to all,

...............................................

@ Greg

YES, I can attest to a cameras inability to capture a good amount of the effect! Ever hear someone say, "The picture just doesn't do it justice"? Great vid BTW, Glad you have it working good in the bug. You are braver than me with that kick wire connection there sparky! They BITE hard, don't they? (good thing there's hardly any amps, huh) I love when the plasma comes on, it takes out all the other sounds the camera can record. Right now, I am still at 2.5uF with no storage cap, charging at about 450VDC, I might try it at 5uF soon. Do you think the oscillator circuit would keep up with my V-8? Or would I need 2?


The more we test, the further we are able to go!! I love this place! Later..................................Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks and yes "owie!". The oscillator I'm using is just something I pulled down from the internet (I'll post it when I catch my breath). To maintain a pump for twice my firing frequency would require some messing around with a bigger transformer (maybe 0.6 Amp) and some screwing around to find the right caps so that the thing doesn't go into resonance (common problem with pushing a transformer with a square wave). I put it together and it worked straight off ... I think I lucked out.

Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

Caps

Hi all,

I added (back in from test circuit) the 1000uF x 50VDC Cap for the power into the oscillator circuit and the xformer temp dropped dramatically. It is in the foreground of the pic below.

Also, I unplugged the 3uF CDI cap and ran a 22uF cap in its place. It ran perfectly and stayed supported even at high speed .... very intense. I think it may be overkill with the higher voltage so if I 'up' C1, it'll only be to 5uF or 7.5uF. Those oil filled caps are really, really fast ... I love 'em !

Peace,

Greg

[Kinetix]

Very nice, Greg. Thanks for sharing.
Jetijs, yes, your oscillator is simple enough. That's fine, but I don't understand why you don't use a full bridge to charge the the cap... I think it will double the eficiency: will shorten the charge time or will charge a bigger cap in the same amount of time. Try it.
All the best.

[jstadwater]

That's COOL Greg,

I agree the oil filled caps are very fast, and they are the ONLY ones I have been able to keep from heating up. Keep up the great work!!

Later..................................Mike

[Jetijs]

Very nice, Greg. Thanks for sharing.
Jetijs, yes, your oscillator is simple enough. That's fine, but I don't understand why you don't use a full bridge to charge the the cap... I think it will double the eficiency: will shorten the charge time or will charge a bigger cap in the same amount of time. Try it.
All the best.

Hi Kinetix. In a Bedini oscillator you put a DC pulse into the coil, that means that also the output pulse will essentially be a DC pulse, that is why you don't need a brdige rectifier. In fact you can just as well use only one diode and this apears to give a slightly better efficiency.

[Kinetix]

Are you shure your oscilator does not make sine wave oscilations in the secondary winding? If it does, than a full bridge it's the best choice for it.
I have also made a selfoscilator, and monitored the output: it was a perfect sine wave...
Well, our experiences and setups might be diferrent.
All the best.

[revizal]

Hi all,

I added (back in from test circuit) the 1000uF x 50VDC Cap for the power into the oscillator circuit and the xformer temp dropped dramatically. It is in the foreground of the pic below.

Also, I unplugged the 3uF CDI cap and ran a 22uF cap in its place. It ran perfectly and stayed supported even at high speed .... very intense. I think it may be overkill with the higher voltage so if I 'up' C1, it'll only be to 5uF or 7.5uF. Those oil filled caps are really, really fast ... I love 'em !

Greate Greg. That's what we need. If your osc could charge 22 uF or even up to 47 uF in high RPM, it's what the plasma need without inverter. I know you will reach this phase. Congratulation.

Rev.

[gmeast]

oscillator

Greate Greg. That's what we need. If your osc could charge 22 uF or even up to 47 uF in high RPM, it's what the plasma need without inverter. I know you will reach this phase. Congratulation.

Rev.

Thanks Rev. I am going to put one larger size xformer on the oscillator to increase capacity. Will inform all as I know.

Greg

[turbotrana]

I am pretty much electronics illiterate but have alot of experience with ICE.

For the past 6 months I have been experimenting with lean burn, ignition systems, fuel injectors.

In the performance arena (years ago) we used to believe this term "once its lit its lit". Refering to the spark firing an air/fuel mixture.
As I and many have found, this is not strictly true. A strong spark does have a positve effect.

Another thing we used to believe also was that it was voltage that you wanted at the spark as opposed to amps. We all got CDI ignitions with this high voltage short duration spark with low amps using 50000 volt coils. CDI was great in the days of single points distributor setup as it seemed to do the job.

Lean mixtures are the hardest mixtures to ignite. However I have found that CDI ignitions are not really good for this. It is the high amperage long duration sparks that light really lean mixtures the best . I have better success with a 20000volt HEI coil in an iductive setup as it delivers more amps and fires leaner mixtures than the CDI I USED to use.

The plasma spark is better again. I am not clear whether you guys are chasing voltage, amps or plasma at the spark tip but I am just providing this info as food for thought as I believe spark duration and amps at the spark plug is a positive for combustion.

Regards

[gmeast]

both

I am pretty much electronics illiterate but have alot of experience with ICE.

For the past 6 months I have been experimenting with lean burn, ignition systems, fuel injectors.

In the performance arena (years ago) we used to believe this term "once its lit its lit". Refering to the spark firing an air/fuel mixture.
As I and many have found, this is not strictly true. A strong spark does have a positve effect.

Another thing we used to believe also was that it was voltage that you wanted at the spark as opposed to amps. We all got CDI ignitions with this high voltage short duration spark with low amps using 50000 volt coils. CDI was great in the days of single points distributor setup as it seemed to do the job.

Lean mixtures are the hardest mixtures to ignite. However I have found that CDI ignitions are not really good for this. It is the high amperage long duration sparks that light really lean mixtures the best . I have better success with a 20000volt HEI coil in an iductive setup as it delivers more amps and fires leaner mixtures than the CDI I USED to use.

The plasma spark is better again. I am not clear whether you guys are chasing voltage, amps or plasma at the spark tip but I am just providing this info as food for thought as I believe spark duration and amps at the spark plug is a positive for combustion.

Regards

Hi turbotrana,

Great question! I think we are trying to get a high current, very hot, short duration event to combust water, water/fuel emulsions. lean fuel mixtures, etc. without burning up the spark plug. A high discharge energy seems to generate an arc that is somewhat self-modulating (seeks its best discharge state), plasma-like event and it seems that this phenomenon can ignite almost anything. Everything we are doing has a foundation in the observation of the 'water spark plug' (effect by Gotoluc) ... the title of this thread and started here by Aaron and by Gotoluc on OverUnity.

But also we seek to get this effect with some simple electrical components that can be 'piggybacked' onto existing ICE's without gutting the ignition system (if possible).

Others chime in here.

Peace,

Greg